Ayn Rand and Christianity - how do you make them fit together?

[allvol123]

Which goes with exactly what I had said. They brought over with them a different set of values than native born parents.

But want more.

 

[Gandalf]

When I was in high school (three-plus decades ago), I read all of Rand’s major works - started with The Fountainhead and went from there. I ended up doing a class paper contrasting the writings of Rand and the Apostle Paul. This thread made me think about that for the first time in years. I left Rand and her philosophies behind a long time ago.

It is a sad commentary on the times we live in that the bolded part of your statement was evident from the simple fact that you were permitted to both read and discuss/compare both Rand and the new Testament in an educational setting, much less turn in a paper on it.

~~~​

For the rest of you, perhaps a suggestion that for those of us who claim Him as master, we could go back to discussing Christianity while better reflecting its tenets in our responses.

 

[n_huffhines]

It is a sad commentary on the times we live in that the bolded part of your statement was evident from the simple fact that you were permitted to both read and discuss/compare both Rand and the new Testament in an educational setting, much less turn in a paper on it.

~~~​

For the rest of you, perhaps a suggestion that for those of us who claim Him as master, we could go back to discussing Christianity while better reflecting its tenets in our responses.

Maybe he went to private school where you can still do that. Pretty sure my parents weren't reading/discussing the Bible (nor the Q'Ran) in public HS 50 years ago, as it should be. You really want these Marxist trans beta max teachers explaining the Bible?

 

[Gandalf]

Maybe he went to private school where you can still do that. Pretty sure my parents weren't reading/discussing the Bible (nor the Q'Ran) in public HS 50 years ago, as it should be. You really want these Marxist trans beta max teachers explaining the Bible?

Before it was removed, you may know that the 10 commandments were posted in most every school and public prayer was common in your parents' time. That is not to say everyone was deeply spiritual but rather that they simply recognized the predominant cultural underpinnings of the society were Christian and practiced accordingly. It isnt that people didnt do bad things but at least they knew and agreed they were doing bad things. Now they do bad things and society claps for them.

And YES I would. If they would read it and ponder it a bit, perhaps fewer teachers would remain trans beta marxists

 

[n_huffhines]

Before it was removed, you may know that the 10 commandments were posted in most every school and public prayer was common in your parents' time. That is not to say everyone was deeply spiritual but rather that they simply recognized the predominant cultural underpinnings of the society were Christian and practiced accordingly. It isnt that people didnt do bad things but at least they knew and agreed they were doing bad things. Now they do bad things and society claps for them.

And YES I would. If they would read it and ponder it a bit, perhaps fewer teachers would remain trans beta marxists

I'm willing to bet discussing the Bible in an educational setting would create more atheists than believers. Be careful what you wish for.

Imagine not growing up religious and then your first exposure to the Bible being a public school classroom.

 

[85SugarVol]

 

[OrangeTsar]

Then why choose Rand for this discussion when there are clearly hundreds of other authors to critique their Christianity

There is clearly a unique tension though in the case of Rand. Her works re very beloved by a lot of conservatives even though her proposed solution to society’s ills in diametrically opposed to the core Christian values of self sacrifice and altruism. (And I totally get the difference between voluntary vs compelled altruism). But anyone serious about their walk with Christ must at some point make a point at which they break with Rand. Her work is the best modern fictional critique of Socialism but it is not a good prescription for a cure.

 

[Gandalf]

There is clearly a unique tension though in the case of Rand. Her works re very beloved by a lot of conservatives even though her proposed solution to society’s ills in diametrically opposed to the core Christian values of self sacrifice and altruism. (And I totally get the difference between voluntary vs compelled altruism). But anyone serious about their walk with Christ must at some point make a point at which they break with Rand. Her work is the best modern fictional critique of Socialism but it is not a good prescription for a cure.

I think this is a good comment that I largely agree with. I think she does a great job of showing the marxist emperor has no clothes and her remedy is solid from the standpoint of "the world's wisdom". Christians, however, are called to a higher Wisdom who often asks seemingly irrational things of them and faith (without which it is impossible to please God) is specifically the evidence of things not seen. "Whoever comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

That said - politicians too often ask voters to accept by faith the outcomes they promise will result from their policies whereas I would rather trust my own eyes, actual experience and Eru given wisdom to discern the best path for good governance. Too often those on the left seek to eradicate faith in our personal lives while enshrining it in government but it should be just the opposite.

 

[ohhbother]

Maybe he went to private school where you can still do that. Pretty sure my parents weren't reading/discussing the Bible (nor the Q'Ran) in public HS 50 years ago, as it should be. You really want these Marxist trans beta max teachers explaining the Bible?

I'm a "she," not a "he." And, nope, it was public high school. David Crockett High School in the metropolis of Jonesborough, to be exact.

It wasn't assigned reading or a topic of class discussion. It was just something I was interested in, and I had a teacher who encouraged me to read things that challenged me. Believe me -- I'm fully supportive of the separation of church and state.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I think this is a good comment that I largely agree with. I think she does a great job of showing the marxist emperor has no clothes and her remedy is solid from the standpoint of "the world's wisdom". Christians, however, are called to a higher Wisdom who often asks seemingly irrational things of them and faith (without which it is impossible to please God) is specifically the evidence of things not seen. "Whoever comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

That said - politicians too often ask voters to accept by faith the outcomes they promise will result from their policies whereas I would rather trust my own eyes, actual experience and Eru given wisdom to discern the best path for good governance. Too often those on the left seek to eradicate faith in our personal lives while enshrining it in government but it should be just the opposite.

Eru?
Oh Gandalf, we Know you were present at the Music of the Ainur before the founding of Arda. But we lesser younger Children of Iluvatar must indeed rely on faith as we are not Maiar like you. We did not see Arda before it was marred by the Malice of Melkor now know as Morgoth, the Dark Enemy of the World. So please have pity on us who did not dwell in the blissful light of the Two Trees of Valinor or behold their unsullied light now remembered only in the Silmarils

 

[EasternVol]

Before it was removed, you may know that the 10 commandments were posted in most every school and public prayer was common in your parents' time. That is not to say everyone was deeply spiritual but rather that they simply recognized the predominant cultural underpinnings of the society were Christian and practiced accordingly. It isnt that people didnt do bad things but at least they knew and agreed they were doing bad things. Now they do bad things and society claps for them.

And YES I would. If they would read it and ponder it a bit, perhaps fewer teachers would remain trans beta marxists

I'm not sure what time period you mean but I don't recall ever seeing the 10 commandments posted in a school. I don't recall my parents, both of whom were in education, ever mentioning the subject and they were pretty conservative. I went to school in the 60's and 70's.

 

[Gandalf]

Eru?
Oh Gandalf, we Know you were present at the Music of the Ainur before the founding of Arda. But we lesser younger Children of Iluvatar must indeed rely on faith as we are not Maiar like you. We did not see Arda before it was marred by the Malice of Melkor now know as Morgoth, the Dark Enemy of the World. So please have pity on us who did not dwell in the blissful light of the Two Trees of Valinor or behold their unsullied light now remembered only in the Silmarils

I do pity you that did not see such things yet I do deem it was wise not to be so. At least it has been granted you and your kind a glimpse of the beauty of the Simarils that yet remains in the earth, sea and sky, sadly still retaining their taint that caused Feanor's fall.

A lesson, purchased dearly, of the danger to those who would have their own internal flame burn from within rather than to reflect such light as is from a greater than themselves. So great is this corruption, we can see its effects even in lesser stones such as troubled Thorin and some may even say that it was a similar corruption that caused Melkor to try to bring discord in the Music of Ilúvatar.

But we shall not see them again in their full light until the world's unmaking.

 

[SamRebel35]

I do pity you that did not see such things yet I do deem it was wise not to be so. At least it has been granted you and your kind a glimpse of the beauty of the Simarils that yet remains in the earth, sea and sky, sadly still retaining their taint that caused Feanor's fall.

A lesson, purchased dearly, of the danger to those who would have their own internal flame burn from within rather than to reflect such light as is from a greater than themselves. So great is this corruption, we can see its effects even in lesser stones such as troubled Thorin and some may even say that it was a similar corruption that caused Melkor to try to bring discord in the Music of Ilúvatar.

But we shall not see them again in their full light until the world's unmaking.

NERDS!

 

[OrangeTsar]

NERDS!

There are “nerds” and then there are TOLKIEN NERDS

 

[OrangeTsar]

 

[Gandalf]

NERDS!

Jealousy does not become you.

View attachment 431946

But did he read the Children of Hurin, Lost Tales or the Fall of Gondolin? I think not. I remember Boromir as a man of action but not deliberate study. Who could conquer a city but not himself. In this, Faramir was the greater but I do not think the measure of the will or deeds of his elder brother was lessened by the younger's victory.

 

[OrangeTsar]

BTW (and I know we are getting away from Rand totall), but I will say that the Silmarillion is the book that helped me finally make peace in my own mind between an old earth scientific view and a literal seven day Creation as seen in Genesis. Eru Iluvatar “created” Arda in a short time span through the music of the Ainur. But then the Ainur were sent forth into the newly created universe to actually work out the steps of the creation which took ages. That is how I see creation as actually proceeding and just like Tolkien, I see the creation as still progressing and not ending until the last note of the Great Music is played. The creation continues to this very day and there is much of the mind of God that is still to be revealed through creation.
Tolkien’s works have shone more light on my views of Christianity and the World than any other book that is not explicitly “religious”. They are the product of a mind that obviously thought much on questions like these.

 

[DonjoVol]

I was not a fan. I ended up putting her book into a free book bin somewhere. Hopefully someone else got a better use out of the book than I did.

 

[BreatheUT]

Yet you spent 24 hours responding to other things. You probably had 20 other responses while intentionally ignoring the fact that you misrepresented her views in your OP.

That's not because of your life outside of VN. That's because you were hiding and cowering. You had plenty of time to respond as shown by your numerous responses to other things.

Geez man are you dating someone in the family?

 

[OrangeTsar]

I was not a fan. I ended up putting her book into a free book bin somewhere. Hopefully someone else got a better use out of the book than I did.

Her works are not easy reads and her prose can be insufferable. I consider getting through the 53 pages of John Galt’s radio address in Atlas Shrugged to be one of the hardest slugfests of my long career as a reader. But the message is important