back the truck up to Muffet McGraw

#26
#26
Darth_Vol said:
McGraw gets HS All-Americans every now and then, but she doesn't rake them in like she would be able to here. Imagine what she could do if she actually had Tennessee's talent.
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If you combine McGraw's recruits the past 3 years and the UT recruits for the same period, McGraw already has better rated talent.
 
#30
#30
UTjonez said:
If UT goes after anybody I think it would have to be Kim Mulky. She can recruit, she can coach and is entertaining to watch coach too. With that said let Holley coach and understand that everything she does is being compared to the greatest basketball coach of all time. I could not imagine how much pressure she feels to have to be as good as Pat.
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Horrible coach and I hate her no thanks... She had a guy on her team and stuff lost
 
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#31
#31
Nikki Caldwell or Dawn Staley are the two best options. Also, possibly the coach at California. The problem is if they fire Holly I don't see Caldwell taking the job. Holly will have to resign. Staley or the California coach would take the job though. McGraw isn't coming here after 27 years at Notre Dame. Also, I don't see Hart hiring a good coach. I don't have a lot of confidence in him.
 
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#35
#35
Coach Summit had to coach for over thirty years to get to a million dollars. Holly makes half of that and that is where Hart likes the pay for a women's basketball coach to be. He is not paying a million or more for McGraw, Staley or anyone else for that matter. Holly will be here for at least two more years as long as she can stay in the hunt for the SEC title and win 20 games. I think if we ever fire her which would be at least two years down the road we would go for a young unproven coach who has done well with a mid-major or a program of lesser talent.

What are the options for the time being well one find another team to cheer for if you can't stand to see our once storied program fall to it's present level or two lower your expectations. I lowered mine way down last night. I think with this group finishing in the top three of the SEC will be a fine showing and then making the sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament a blessing. Anything above this they will have overachieved.
 
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#36
#36
I actually think Staley is the best coach in the SEC right now.

She was my choice when Pat stepped down. McGraw is not going to leave Notre Dame. She's in her 27th season there and has no reason to leave. ND just gave her a 10-year extension on her contract and she makes close to
$1m annually. I just don't see her opting to leave what she has at ND, if UT were to try to throw money at her, which there is no reason to do when they could get a great, proven, youg coach like Staley for a lot less.

Mitchell at UK is the highest paid women's coach in the SEC currently. With his incentives he is close to $1m annually and has built a women's power at a traditional BB school, so he would not be likely to leave for UT.

Caldwell will not take the job over Holly. That won't happen.

Staley, on the other hand, is at a program that doesn't currently get a lot of fan support, although it is increasing quickly as she continues to be a quality program there. Here base salary is only$325k annually, although incentives can get it up to close to $3/4m annually.

I think she would be the proven HC UT could realistically get without 'backing the truck up'.

But...I haven't heard anywhere other than the messageboards that the LVs are hunting for a new HC. And unfortunately, they probably won't be until the point where UT has been replaced as the flagship of women's SEC ball (which doesn't appear that far off at the rate it is going).
 
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#37
#37
I want Warlick to succeed but it is already clear that she doesn't have the personality or coaching skills to develop a good team. Watching this team for two years makes that very apparent. After last night's loss she was happy that the team competed and played one good half. WTF?

Caldwell and Staley would both be an upgrade--but I'm not sure either is the best we could do. Maybe. Staley has been at two lackluster programs and got to the Sweet 16 once in 13 years. She has done pretty well as a coach and is very competitive but there might be better coaches out there. Caldwell is a UT alum who has been at two good programs and in five/six years as got to the Sweet 16 once as well. Again, a good coach but....not sure either is an A-level prospect. We need somebody who is /smart/ and demanding and a real leader. It would be a big hire and UT should do a thorough search.
 
#38
#38
Like I have said before if and when we go there which will be a while. I like Wes Moore he has done more with less than any other coach I know. NC State does not have any talent to speak of maybe one decent post player. He has them 16 and 3 which includes a shalacking of LSU and a win over then number 18 Syracuse. He has them ranked in the top twenty. One could only guess what he could do with five star players.



"I don't think that's so much about coaching or about me," Moore said. "It's about them. They wanted to step up and win so I think it started there. I always tell teams: It's your team, we're going to do as well as y'all want to do. I can't make you buy in, I can't make you work hard. We're going to do as well as you want to do — and these kids have wanted to do well."

I wish our players thought like that.
 
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#39
#39
Volfan2012 said:
Like I have said before if and when we go there which will be a while. I like Wes Moore he has done more with less than any other coach I know. NC State does not have any talent to speak of maybe one decent post player. He has them 16 and 3 which includes a shalacking of LSU and a win over then number 18 Syracuse. He has them ranked in the top twenty. One could only guess what he could do with five star players.
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Wes Moore would be awesome- it's not a big time name but right now TN doesn't necessarily need a big name to get recruits. The TN name is still huge and recruits itself. All the guy does is win and runs a hard offense to stop. Just ask Warlick- he beat her in her very first game as TN's head coach. That should have been a big warning sign for TN fans when they witnessed that.
 
#40
#40
Volfan2012 said:
Coach Summit had to coach for over thirty years to get to a million dollars. Holly makes half of that and that is where Hart likes the pay for a women's basketball coach to be. He is not paying a million or more for McGraw, Staley or anyone else for that matter. Holly will be here for at least two more years as long as she can stay in the hunt for the SEC title and win 20 games. I think if we ever fire her which would be at least two years down the road we would go for a young unproven coach who has done well with a mid-major or a program of lesser talent.

What are the options for the time being well one find another team to cheer for if you can't stand to see our once storied program fall to it's present level or two lower your expectations. I lowered mine way down last night. I think with this group finishing in the top three of the SEC will be a fine showing and then making the sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament a blessing. Anything above this they will have overachieved.
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tsk tsk I will follow the Lady Vols Baket Ball team till my last dieing breathe,hopefully it will be with the Lady Vols on TV,beating the crap out of somebody
 
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#42
#42
governmentmule said:
tsk tsk I will follow the Lady Vols Baket Ball team till my last dieing breathe,hopefully it will be with the Lady Vols on TV,beating the crap out of somebody
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Plus with the players we have coming in next year we will fill a big hole with players that can shoot the three consistently game after game. We don't have that now were hot or cold. Regardless of how this year turns out Holly is gonna be here were not firing her. She has at least two more years to get us to the final four. We could still make it this year, but I feel certain that the players coming in next year will seal the deal. Unlike a lot of fans I don't think we quite have the players we need to get it done this season. We need a leader and a go to player I think we have a leader and a go to player in the next class. I would like to think we have one now but after 20 games no one has really stepped up to that role.
 
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#43
#43
Volfan2012 said:
Coach Summit had to coach for over thirty years to get to a million dollars. Holly makes half of that and that is where Hart likes the pay for a women's basketball coach to be. He is not paying a million or more for McGraw, Staley or anyone else for that matter. Holly will be here for at least two more years as long as she can stay in the hunt for the SEC title and win 20 games. I think if we ever fire her which would be at least two years down the road we would go for a young unproven coach who has done well with a mid-major or a program of lesser talent.

What are the options for the time being well one find another team to cheer for if you can't stand to see our once storied program fall to it's present level or two lower your expectations. I lowered mine way down last night. I think with this group finishing in the top three of the SEC will be a fine showing and then making the sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament a blessing. Anything above this they will have overachieved.
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Making the sweet 16 an overachievement? Are you serious? Are you aware of the talent that UT has? Apparently not. Who in the SEC has more talent? Let me answer that for you, nobody. Did Louisville have more talent than UT last year? Let me answer that for you: UT had more talent. This team underachieves more than overachieves--and Warlick as said as much--and the same was true last year. We should have beaten Louisville and gone to the final four.
 
#44
#44
TN1111 said:
Wes Moore would be awesome- it's not a big time name but right now TN doesn't necessarily need a big name to get recruits. The TN name is still huge and recruits itself. All the guy does is win and runs a hard offense to stop. Just ask Warlick- he beat her in her very first game as TN's head coach. That should have been a big warning sign for TN fans when they witnessed that.
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you see them overachieving, winning games with less than great talent.
 
#45
#45
armchair said:
Making the sweet 16 an overachievement? Are you serious? Are you aware of the talent that UT has? Apparently not. Who in the SEC has more talent? Let me answer that for you, nobody. Did Louisville have more talent than UT last year? Let me answer that for you: UT had more talent. This team underachieves more than overachieves--and Warlick as said as much--and the same was true last year. We should have beaten Louisville and gone to the final four.
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Actually Louisville may have had more talent or at least even. Izzy was a four star rated in the 40's, Burdick was number five but was way overrated she isn't in the top fifty. Simmons four star in the thirties, Massengale number three has not played to that ranking but has played well. Graves number five in class five star has been a good player.
Talent is about how a player plays not how some service had them ranked.

So Schimmel would be a five star based on play, 41 percent three point shooter 18.1 ppg, Hammond 56 percent from the field, Taylor 54 percent field goal shooter, Bria Smith five star player who we wanted hitting 51 percent from the field. Slaughter and Gibbs better than our bench players.

Schimmel vs.Simmons using statistics Schimmel wins, Hammond over Burdick, Harrison over their post, Smith vs Massengale a tie at best, Taylor vs Graves about even. So using stats you can't say we have more talent.

Three of our starting players are higher rated by services but have been outplayed statistically by Louisville players. On the court is what counts and they have been better on the court players as a team than what we have to this point.

As far as beating Louisville if every player played to their ranking it should have happened. We have players that haven't even played close to their service ranking and never will. So how good are some of our players I would rank several as three and two stars based on their play. That is what their ability should be based on not what they did in high school or what some service thought they were capable of.
 
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#46
#46
Volfan2012 said:
Actually Louisville may have had more talent or at least even. Izzy was a four star rated in the 40's, Burdick was number five but was way overrated she isn't in the top fifty. Simmons four star in the thirties, Massengale number three has not played to that ranking but has played well. Graves number five in class five star has been a good player.
Talent is about how a player plays not how some service had them ranked.

So Schimmel would be a five star based on play, 41 percent three point shooter 18.1 ppg, Hammond 56 percent from the field, Taylor 54 percent field goal shooter, Bria Smith five star player who we wanted hitting 51 percent from the field. Slaughter and Gibbs better than our bench players.

Schimmel vs.Simmons using statistics Schimmel wins, Hammond over Burdick, Harrison over their post, Smith vs Massengale a tie at best, Taylor vs Graves about even. So using stats you can't say we have more talent.

Three of our starting players are higher rated by services but have been outplayed statistically by Louisville players. On the court is what counts and they have been better on the court players as a team than what we have to this point.

As far as beating Louisville if every player played to their ranking it should have happened. We have players that haven't even played close to their service ranking and never will. So how good are some of our players I would rank several as three and two stars based on their play. That is what their ability should be based on not what they did in high school or what some service thought they were capable of.
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It's nice to see a rational, realistic post here. I think part of the irrational expectations come from watching and reading too much UT produced material and watching too many UT games to the exclusion of others. Everything produced for the Knoxville consumer is skewed in Lady Vol favor. Not than it's much different elsewhere. That's why its important to read from varied sources to get the opinions of those who are not indoctrinated. If you watch a B1G, ACC or Pac12 game, you'd think the teams and players were the best in the nation, and of course their leagues are also #1.

Just read the write ups on utsports.com after a losing game. You'd think the game was won and the photos show only baskets being made by UT players. This skewed reporting makes people think the team is better than it actually is. Again, the same thing happens with most other teams too.

If a writer prints something that is not favorable coaches might stop giving interviews. Few writers have the clout to resist this pressure. Pat had a reputation for wanting to control the press.

Now, when Bill Walton calls a game, well, I'm not sure how to analyze that!
 
#47
#47
lets not forget about the injuries last year either,the Lady Vols were gassed when they played Louisville or at least I think that was part of the problem during that game,they had been stretched thin and it showed up from a lack of healthy players on the bench

and why would i want to watch and read up on teams that i care nothing about convolted ? i just wait for you and others to post about em on here :)
 
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#48
#48
Did you ever consider that our players don't play up to their high school ranking because our coaching staff can't develop talent? Simmons is a senior this year, does she look much better now than she did when she arrived as a freshman? Burdick was the top rated forward in her class. Massengale was the top rated point guard. Now they are juniors, very little development. Maybe this isn't coincidence? The staff seems clueless how to use Russell, the number one player in her class.

Louisville was a better TEAM because their players improved. If you think Tennessee had inferior talent, you are truly clueless....

Volfan2012 said:
Actually Louisville may have had more talent or at least even. Izzy was a four star rated in the 40's, Burdick was number five but was way overrated she isn't in the top fifty. Simmons four star in the thirties, Massengale number three has not played to that ranking but has played well. Graves number five in class five star has been a good player.
Talent is about how a player plays not how some service had them ranked.

So Schimmel would be a five star based on play, 41 percent three point shooter 18.1 ppg, Hammond 56 percent from the field, Taylor 54 percent field goal shooter, Bria Smith five star player who we wanted hitting 51 percent from the field. Slaughter and Gibbs better than our bench players.

Schimmel vs.Simmons using statistics Schimmel wins, Hammond over Burdick, Harrison over their post, Smith vs Massengale a tie at best, Taylor vs Graves about even. So using stats you can't say we have more talent.

Three of our starting players are higher rated by services but have been outplayed statistically by Louisville players. On the court is what counts and they have been better on the court players as a team than what we have to this point.

As far as beating Louisville if every player played to their ranking it should have happened. We have players that haven't even played close to their service ranking and never will. So how good are some of our players I would rank several as three and two stars based on their play. That is what their ability should be based on not what they did in high school or what some service thought they were capable of.
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#49
#49
Darth_Vol said:
Did you ever consider that our players don't play up to their high school ranking because our coaching staff can't develop talent? Simmons is a senior this year, does she look much better now than she did when she arrived as a freshman? Burdick was the top rated forward in her class. Massengale was the top rated point guard. Now they are juniors, very little development. Maybe this isn't coincidence? The staff seems clueless how to use Russell, the number one player in her class.

Louisville was a better TEAM because their players improved. If you think Tennessee had inferior talent, you are truly clueless....
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If the players didn't develop then we have inferior talent. If their players improved then that would make them better on the court. If they are better on the court that means they are better players and is why they won the game.

Since this exactly what I said don't know what you are arguing about. I said our players were higher rated coming out of high school. They were not better last season when they played Louisville so they lost. High School ratings aren't always dependable players have to get better. Their players did and some of our five stars became two stars.
At this moment Schimmel is better than Simmons and Hammonds is better than Burdick. Their point guard Smith was highly rated top ten player so she is at least even with Massengale. As starting lineups go they are as talented. They may not have been rated as high out of high school but they grew into better players and were able to improve their ability and arguably would have a higher ranking now.

The reason could very well be the coaching staff, player overrated, or many other alternatives. The point being people declare we had better basketball skill and should have beaten Louisville. That simply is not true they were better and that is why they won.
 
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#50
#50
Player development is a function of skill level, work ethic AND coaching. Coaching has a lot to do with it, IMO. It is true that some players simply don't have the talent to develop much--someone like Zolman simply wasn't quick or athletic enough to become a really good guard. Bjorklund much the same--she actually seemed to regress over four years, as have others at UT. Other plays have the capability to improve if they have the right skills and get the right coaching. I would cite Simmons as a major example. She has skills, works hard, is passionate about the game, but I think she has been mishandled by the coaches, who have given her too much freedom to shoot and never turned her into the good all-around player I think she could have become. She is essentially the same player now that she was as a freshman. Every player has strengths and weaknesses, and it is coaching that helps players to improve. Let's see if the coaches can develop Jones--whose size and athleticism could really help the team but she needs a lot of help on her offensive game and especially passing and decision-making.
 
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