Bad Science

#26
#26
Funny... I've not experienced the level of antipathy you're talking about, either as a student over three degrees or as a professor at two universities. Are there pockets of it on most campuses? Yeah. But the are just as many pockets of positivity and patriotism that would make you proud.

I guess it's a case of you're always going to find what you're looking for.
One would have to be extraordinary to resist being inundated by the continual peer pressure to think that most higher educational institutions views are actually normal. It doesn't surprise me you have a favorable view of the so called educated way of thinking. Some of us just want the education to earn a better living.
 
#27
#27
One would have to be extraordinary to resist being inundated by the continual peer pressure to think that most higher educational institutions views are actually normal. It doesn't surprise me you have a favorable view of the so called educated way of thinking. Some of us just want the education to earn a better living.

I'm a first generation college graduate. I came out of my PhD with my love of God, family, and freedom still intact. I teach my students that the most important piece of music they will ever teach and conduct is the National Anthem, and the public will judge their ability by that one song over all others. I teach them that there are no pity points at performance assessment and hold them to ridiculously high standards in their preteaching.

So tell me what my mindset is, explain to me what the "educated way of thinking" is exactly, and show me how my lived experience is wrong and I've been totally fooled.
 
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#29
#29
I'm a first generation college graduate. I came out of my PhD with my love of God, family, and freedom still intact. I teach my students that the most important piece of music they will ever teach and conduct is the National Anthem, and the public will judge their ability by that one song over all others. I teach them that there are no pity points at performance assessment and hold them to ridiculously high standards in their preteaching.

So tell me what my mindset is, explain to me what the "educated way of thinking" is exactly, and show me how my lived experience is wrong and I've been totally fooled.
Not really sure why one would need a PhD to have love for God or why someone would be judged over the national anthem? I can only assume you're saying you teach music by that statement? Regardless, the question still stands. Not sure where you're getting that I'm saying anything about your lived experience. I'm simply stating that not having an ounce of higher education in any way adversely effects your value or worth as person. In many ways it may enhance your value and worth as a person. This is due to garbage coming out of the vast majority of universities.
 
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#30
#30
Not really sure why one would need a PhD to have love for God or why someone would be judged over the national anthem? I can only assume you're saying you teach music by that statement? Regardless, the question still stands. Not sure where you're getting that I'm saying anything about your lived experience. I'm simply stating that not having an ounce of higher education in any way adversely effects your value or worth as person. In many ways it may enhance your value and worth as a person. This is due to garbage coming out of the vast majority of universities.

What I'm saying is that neither my education nor my employment has changed my core values. Nor have I been encouraged during those times to change my core value.

I also don't see programs telling graduates they're better than anybody else. I do see them - and do myself - tell graduates that their education brings responsibilities they need to fulfill. My PhD makes me in no form, shape, or fashion any better or different than my grandfather who dropped out in 8th grade to work at a lumber mill.
 
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#31
#31
I think ya'll are being a little harsh on @AshG. I agree that most 'higher level' education these days is pumping out a pathetic product, but that is a pretty broad brush with which to paint all instructors. His defense of the National Anthem for one I think confirms that. Also that he has remained a spiritual man in spite of the horrific things he has endured and to remain so is a testament as well.

I must admit that I have painted with a bit of a broad brush as well regarding college in general as in thinking about setting up scholarships and foundations, there is no way in Hell that I will donate one red cent to a university and that includes UT. I am thinking more about helping those that are going into the trades to help them start businesses or get/remain debt free. But until I see some modicum of rationality form the universities in this country, they can suck an egg.
 
#32
#32
What I'm saying is that neither my education nor my employment has changed my core values. Nor have I been encouraged during those times to change my core value.

I also don't see programs telling graduates they're better than anybody else. I do see them - and do myself - tell graduates that their education brings responsibilities they need to fulfill. My PhD makes me in no form, shape, or fashion any better or different than my grandfather who dropped out in 8th grade to work at a lumber mill.
I think those graduates are failing miserably in those responsibilities.
 
#34
#34
I think ya'll are being a little harsh on @AshG. I agree that most 'higher level' education these days is pumping out a pathetic product, but that is a pretty broad brush with which to paint all instructors. His defense of the National Anthem for one I think confirms that. Also that he has remained a spiritual man in spite of the horrific things he has endured and to remain so is a testament as well.

I must admit that I have painted with a bit of a broad brush as well regarding college in general as in thinking about setting up scholarships and foundations, there is no way in Hell that I will donate one red cent to a university and that includes UT. I am thinking more about helping those that are going into the trades to help them start businesses or get/remain debt free. But until I see some modicum of rationality form the universities in this country, they can suck an egg.

Most higher education can be learned reading marx or any other Socialist. Society demands they go into debt and take classes thatvhave no use in the real world. It's become a scam
 
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#35
#35
Most higher education can be learned reading marx or any other Socialist. Society demands they go into debt and take classes thatvhave no use in the real world. It's become a scam
Oh absolutely. I have said this many times before, but if people are allowed to bankrupt student loans, colleges will scream from the rooftops because they will see their enrollment plummet in those crap degrees they offer.

Higher education is a huge scam anymore.
 
#36
#36
Oh absolutely. I have said this many times before, but if people are allowed to bankrupt student loans, colleges will scream from the rooftops because they will see their enrollment plummet in those crap degrees they offer.

Higher education is a huge scam anymore.
 
#37
#37
What I'm saying is that neither my education nor my employment has changed my core values. Nor have I been encouraged during those times to change my core value.

I also don't see programs telling graduates they're better than anybody else. I do see them - and do myself - tell graduates that their education brings responsibilities they need to fulfill. My PhD makes me in no form, shape, or fashion any better or different than my grandfather who dropped out in 8th grade to work at a lumber mill.
You'd serve them far better to tell them that their responsibility is to be happy in their own lives. What do you think you're responsibility is to fulfill, perched on that highly educated pedestal?
 
#38
#38
Oh absolutely. I have said this many times before, but if people are allowed to bankrupt student loans, colleges will scream from the rooftops because they will see their enrollment plummet in those crap degrees they offer.

Higher education is a huge scam anymore.
There is an issue when people are paying thousands of dollars for Harry Potter classes. And the blatant pro marxist Gender studies type classes is not good.
 
#39
#39
You'd serve them far better to tell them that their responsibility is to be happy in their own lives. What do you think you're responsibility is to fulfill, perched on that highly educated pedestal?

I'll answer when you've had time to cool off and be less condescending. I won't reward that behavior.
 
#40
#40
I'll answer when you've had time to cool off and be less condescending. I won't reward that behavior.
Are you too much of a coward to answer a simple question? I mean surely a super highly educated individual like yourself with multiple degrees can easily give an answer that could best a mere degree holder. I've seen many posts you've made on this forum that were condescending. Surely you don't feel like there should be a double standard?
 
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#41
#41
Oh absolutely. I have said this many times before, but if people are allowed to bankrupt student loans, colleges will scream from the rooftops because they will see their enrollment plummet in those crap degrees they offer.

Higher education is a huge scam anymore.

Higher education without a cause may well be a scam. However, higher education is essential to a number of more scientific fields. I can't imagine engineering without higher education - in person higher education at that. The same for medicine.
 
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#44
#44
I was thinking about what you said while working on the washer. Using music, I see you as someone who understands the process ... someone able to hear something played and inherently know something is wrong. The question at that point is whether the original composer was clueless, just weird, or whether the "artist" simply can't play it. With a little looking into the music, I have no doubt you could quickly conclude what the case might be because of your experience and what would be the wealth of available relevant information - the score. We lack that practical experience and guidance in so many areas, and don't want to learn the basics.
Yeah, you’re definitely speaking to me there. People these days accept whatever a computer spits at them because they want fast results rather than taking the time to understand what goes into the result. Back in my days as an insurance underwriter it got to where I was the only person in the company that could manually rate. So when anyone else didn’t understand why the computer rating gave them something wrong or something they didn’t expect they would come to me. Because I knew the logic behind the rating system I could always figure out the issue or explain why the result was different than they expected. If tech was ever taken away I’m convinced a good chunk of the country would die or at least have to beg to survive and I’m not sure that group would have the work ethic to do the begging.
 
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#45
#45
Higher education without a cause may well be a scam. However, higher education is essential to a number of more scientific fields. I can't imagine engineering without higher education - in person higher education at that. The same for medicine.
For those fields it makes sense. For general corporate America it was stupid to make a college degree a requirement but how else were they going to force people to college? Then the question becomes why would corporate America want to force us to college? That’s where some of the other back and forth in this thread comes in of course. It was genius though. Corporations say they require a 4 year degree or equivalent experience knowing that in time there would be no equivalent experience because you can’t get an entry level job without a college degree and they’re not hiring the older folks with experience but no degree for the entry level jobs. Trades weren’t really pushed like college was back when I was in high school in the mid-90s and already by then if you weren’t going into a trade you pretty much had to have a college degree to get a job. There were still some that didn’t require one. Now you almost have to have a masters degree to stand out and definitely require a college degree to get any kind of white collar job. A 4 year degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma from the 80s and a masters degree is like a 4 year degree from that time.
 
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#46
#46
Higher education without a cause may well be a scam. However, higher education is essential to a number of more scientific fields. I can't imagine engineering without higher education - in person higher education at that. The same for medicine.
Oh absolutely. I was not saying anything to the contrary.
 
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#47
#47
For those fields it makes sense. For general corporate America it was stupid to make a college degree a requirement but how else were they going to force people to college? Then the question becomes why would corporate America want to force us to college? That’s where some of the other back and forth in this thread comes in of course. It was genius though. Corporations say they require a 4 year degree or equivalent experience knowing that in time there would be no equivalent experience because you can’t get an entry level job without a college degree and they’re not hiring the older folks with experience but no degree for the entry level jobs. Trades weren’t really pushed like college was back when I was in high school in the mid-90s and already by then if you weren’t going into a trade you pretty much had to have a college degree to get a job. There were still some that didn’t require one. Now you almost have to have a masters degree to stand out and definitely require a college degree to get any kind of white collar job. A 4 year degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma from the 80s and a masters degree is like a 4 year degree from that time.
This will be even more true when it's 'free'.

All a college degree does is prove that you can be trained.
 
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#48
#48
Yeah, you’re definitely speaking to me there. People these days accept whatever a computer spits at them because they want fast results rather than taking the time to understand what goes into the result. Back in my days as an insurance underwriter it got to where I was the only person in the company that could manually rate. So when anyone else didn’t understand why the computer rating gave them something wrong or something they didn’t expect they would come to me. Because I knew the logic behind the rating system I could always figure out the issue or explain why the result was different than they expected. If tech was ever taken away I’m convinced a good chunk of the country would die or at least have to beg to survive and I’m not sure that group would have the work ethic to do the begging.
We have been talking about this allot lately at my house. Technology is great but the adage about its only as good as long as it’s working is true.
For example we have pumps that dispense medications that can drastically alter heart function. When I first started in icu you manually calculated what to put into the pump. Now the pump, connected to the electronic medical records does it for you. It does keep very accurate medical records.
We now have new nurses who are not and have never calculated dosage or been taught to. It is passe. Should there come a time and it will happen, that the systems we use to keep critical systems functioning have a failure, these newer nurses will not be equipped to figure drip calculations. We have seen technology infrastructure attacked successfully with the gas line and meat packing plant this year. We depend wholly on technology and I believe it’s a mistake.
 
#49
#49
We have been talking about this allot lately at my house. Technology is great but the adage about its only as good as long as it’s working is true.
For example we have pumps that dispense medications that can drastically alter heart function. When I first started in icu you manually calculated what to put into the pump. Now the pump, connected to the electronic medical records does it for you. It does keep very accurate medical records.
We now have new nurses who are not and have never calculated dosage or been taught to. It is passe. Should there come a time and it will happen, that the systems we use to keep critical systems functioning have a failure, these newer nurses will not be equipped to figure drip calculations. We have seen technology infrastructure attacked successfully with the gas line and meat packing plant this year. We depend wholly on technology and I believe it’s a mistake.
Pilotless airplanes are just around the corner too. It's a brave new world.
 
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