Ball Handling

#51
#51
bleedingTNorange said:
thats my guess, webster was a hell of a PG himself and i truly think golden could benefit greatly from a full off season with him. in addition, hopefully the staff will push for him to get an invite to maybe steve nash PG camp in the summer and he can go there as well.

my craft question was directed for the comparison with stanton. would you compare those 2 as pretty similar when you look at the numbers?? not big scorers, big assist guys, good ball handlers, great defenders, average shooter???
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Not sure Stanton would be of the same mold as Craft.
I do think he was mis-handled at Clemson, but I understand the problem Brownell had. He had no scorers and I think he was coached into the score first mentality.
Stanton is extremely quick off the dribble and a good on ball defender. If he could help keep golden's legs fresh next year, he'd probably be worth a scholarship.
Can he be a Craft, probably not.
 
#52
#52
calban said:
Not sure Stanton would be of the same mold as Craft.
I do think he was mis-handled at Clemson, but I understand the problem Brownell had. He had no scorers and I think he was coached into the score first mentality.
Stanton is extremely quick off the dribble and a good on ball defender. If he could help keep golden's legs fresh next year, he'd probably be worth a scholarship.
Can he be a Craft, probably not.
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gotcha. so you do see him then as more of a back up role than a starter for this team? obviously very hard to predict, but clearly you know more about the guy than i do...if he was to start what would you guess his numbers look like???

as i said we are very weak at the 2 and 3, so if we can move golden to the 2 we automatically do get stronger as a team. basically the question is, is stanton better than mcbee/richardson?

dislclaimer: not trying to bash mcbee people, just using who is the starting 2 that golden would replace.
 
#53
#53
bleedingTNorange said:
gotcha. so you do see him then as more of a back up role than a starter for this team? obviously very hard to predict, but clearly you know more about the guy than i do...if he was to start what would you guess his numbers look like???

as i said we are very weak at the 2 and 3, so if we can move golden to the 2 we automatically do get stronger as a team. basically the question is, is stanton better than mcbee/richardson?

dislclaimer: not trying to bash mcbee people, just using who is the starting 2 that golden would replace.
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Stanton would never be the perimeter shooter McBee is, but his ball handling and defensive skills, would be far superior.
Don't think he'd be a combo because of his size.
I'd see him only as a back up for Golden.
And I think Martin would coach him back to a pass first mentality.
It was a little intense when Golden turned his ankle against Arky (was it?)
What would we have done?
Richardson has some up side. Needs to work on his offense in the off season. Martin plays a lot of combo. I think he 'd also be a 2-3.
 
#54
#54
LibertyVolance said:
Golden is our best all-around guard and indeed has become a consistent player this year. Yes, he has made turnovers but he has been required to play the point and it has been an adjustment for him. I like McBee's hustle and effort, but the very fact that he gets so many minutes of playing time is less a credit to his shooting as it is of our desperation of not having more reliable 2 and 3 guards to go with Golden. McBee cannot play effective defense against most of his competition and it hurts us on defense to have him on the court so much. Everybody knows that and BleedingTNorange gets it, but you are not getting it or refusing to say you do. It's not that difficult to see.
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What do you suppose the alternative is? Who gets McBee's minutes? Until we have enough talent to where players like McBee (who I agree really has no business starting for an SEC team) don't have to play 30 minutes a game, he's going to play.

And my issue with TNorange isn't his thought process, because he makes some good points, but it's his having to remind everyone every time McBee misses a shot, lets his man score, etc. that is extremely annoying. No one on this team is solid game in, game out other than Maymon (and Stokes to an extent)... so the fact he feels the need to dog a player over and over is ridiculous and the precise reason I started doing the same for Golden.

The bottom line is Skylar is going to get his minutes, and he's going to have some good games and some bad games.. but for people to come on here and dissect his play like he's Lebron James is utterly ridiculous, especially considering he's easily our best 3pt threat and doesn't turn the ball over.
 
#55
#55
calban said:
Stanton would never be the perimeter shooter McBee is, but his ball handling and defensive skills, would be far superior.
Don't think he'd be a combo because of his size.
I'd see him only as a back up for Golden.
And I think Martin would coach him back to a pass first mentality.
It was a little intense when Golden turned his ankle against Arky (was it?)
What would we have done?
Richardson has some up side. Needs to work on his offense in the off season. Martin plays a lot of combo. I think he 'd also be a 2-3.
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thats what im saying though, IF stanton is better at PG than mcbee is at SG we are better. clearly IMO golden will be a better SG than mcbee, so then it becomes do you have someone good enough to replace golden so you dont dropoff to where you were before. this is where stanton slides in. basically say it currently looks this way, we'll grad 1-10 to make it easier:
PG: Golden 7
SG: Mcbee 5
you have a total grade of 12 at the 2 positions...if you put stanton in and he's a 7 at PG, and golden is better at his natural position so we'll say 8
PG: Stanton 7
SG: Golden 8
you have a total grade of 15. very elementary i know, but its what gets the most talent on the floor imo.

so thats why i asked is stanton a better option than mcbee, because imo clearly golden is a better option than mcbee at the 2, so are we better with a 1/2 of golden and mcbee, or stanton and golden.
 
#56
#56
altidore17 said:
What do you suppose the alternative is? Who gets McBee's minutes? Until we have enough talent to where players like McBee (who I agree really has no business starting for an SEC team) don't have to play 30 minutes a game, he's going to play.

And my issue with TNorange isn't his thought process, because he makes some good points, but it's his having to remind everyone every time McBee misses a shot, lets his man score, etc. that is extremely annoying. No one on this team is solid game in, game out other than Maymon (and Stokes to an extent)... so the fact he feels the need to dog a player over and over is ridiculous and the precise reason I started doing the same for Golden.

The bottom line is Skylar is going to get his minutes, and he's going to have some good games and some bad games.. but for people to come on here and dissect his play like he's Lebron James is utterly ridiculous, especially considering he's easily our best 3pt threat and doesn't turn the ball over.
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care to point out where against alabama, during the game, that i one time made a negative comment about skylar? ill wait....:whistling:


you wont find one because i didnt...

i waited until after the game, which my first negative comment i believe went to golden, and then another was to tatum, you just only see me make comments to mcbee because thats what you're looking for.
 
#57
#57
bleedingTNorange said:
care to point out where against alabama, during the game, that i one time made a negative comment about skylar? ill wait....:whistling:


you wont find one because i didnt...

i waited until after the game, which my first negative comment i believe went to golden, and then another was to tatum, you just only see me make comments to mcbee because thats what you're looking for.
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I would really love to dig through the 100000 threads you've started/posted in this year, but its not very difficult to begin with, because I see your name and McBee's in almost every single thread in the basketball forum. I also see you constantly trying to deflect the blame away from Golden and placing it players such as McBee and Tatum. You say you put blame on Golden, but after every instance of you criticizing him, there's always a "but if THIS player would help him.." or "he can't do it all by himself.." or "well he's playing out of position.." get my drift? Criticism doesn't really apply when you try to justify what your criticizing after the fact.
 
#58
#58
altidore17 said:
I would really love to dig through the 100000 threads you've started/posted in this year, but its not very difficult to begin with, because I see your name and McBee's in almost every single thread in the basketball forum. I also see you constantly trying to deflect the blame away from Golden and placing it players such as McBee and Tatum. You say you put blame on Golden, but after every instance of you criticizing him, there's always a "but if THIS player would help him.." or "he can't do it all by himself.." or "well he's playing out of position.." get my drift? Criticism doesn't really apply when you try to justify what your criticizing after the fact.
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im still waiting on these constant reminders you say i made during the bama game degrating mcbee, until i see you post them i dont bother reading your post.

you make stuff up worse than a 9 year old girl, which would make sense, doesnt mcbee have a 9 year old sister?

its all adding up now.
 
#59
#59
bleedingTNorange said:
thats what im saying though, IF stanton is better at PG than mcbee is at SG we are better. clearly IMO golden will be a better SG than mcbee, so then it becomes do you have someone good enough to replace golden so you dont dropoff to where you were before. this is where stanton slides in. basically say it currently looks this way, we'll grad 1-10 to make it easier:
PG: Golden 7
SG: Mcbee 5
you have a total grade of 12 at the 2 positions...if you put stanton in and he's a 7 at PG, and golden is better at his natural position so we'll say 8
PG: Stanton 7
SG: Golden 8
you have a total grade of 15. very elementary i know, but its what gets the most talent on the floor imo.

so thats why i asked is stanton a better option than mcbee, because imo clearly golden is a better option than mcbee at the 2, so are we better with a 1/2 of golden and mcbee, or stanton and golden.
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I'm a little dense, but if you're asking if Stanton would be a better option at point with Golden at the 2, hell yes.
He's not going to be the scoring threat in college that he was in HS, but if Martin got him back to his JR season form averaging 7 assists a game he'd make up for it feeding Stokes, Maymon and Golden.
He had games in his JR year where he had 10+ assists.
that's a potential 20-30 points a game.
Need a good distributor in Motion offense. At one time he was just that.
Plus he's a major upgrade on defense to McBee.
Not dissing McBee. Like what he's done with what he's got.
 
#60
#60
calban said:
I'm a little dense, but if you're asking if Stanton would be a better option at point with Golden at the 2, hell yes.
He's not going to be the scoring threat in college that he was in HS, but if Martin got him back to his JR season form averaging 7 assists a game he'd make up for it feeding Stokes, Maymon and Golden.
He had games in his JR year where he had 10+ assists.
that's a potential 20-30 points a game.
Need a good distributor in Motion offense. At one time he was just that.
Plus he's a major upgrade on defense to McBee.
Not dissing McBee. Like what he's done with what he's got.
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that was exactly what i was asking are we better with
golden
mcbee

or

stanton
golden
if stanton is indeed that 7ppg 5ast 2to 1st 2rb each game type of guy.

personally if he can do just that im all for him playing the point and sliding golden to the 2. my biggest question was just his passing and defense, and i know you knew quite a bit about him. imo if he can bring those numbers each night you go stanton, golden 1/2....i like!

on another note, i actually met stanton the other day, nice kid, weird the resemblence of cj watson. one can only hope it translates to the court :)
 
#61
#61
altidore17 said:
What do you suppose the alternative is? Who gets McBee's minutes? Until we have enough talent to where players like McBee (who I agree really has no business starting for an SEC team) don't have to play 30 minutes a game, he's going to play.

And my issue with TNorange isn't his thought process, because he makes some good points, but it's his having to remind everyone every time McBee misses a shot, lets his man score, etc. that is extremely annoying. No one on this team is solid game in, game out other than Maymon (and Stokes to an extent)... so the fact he feels the need to dog a player over and over is ridiculous and the precise reason I started doing the same for Golden.

The bottom line is Skylar is going to get his minutes, and he's going to have some good games and some bad games.. but for people to come on here and dissect his play like he's Lebron James is utterly ridiculous, especially considering he's easily our best 3pt threat and doesn't turn the ball over.
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Honestly, we don't have an alternative now. That's the point. We are hurting for better guard play that we don't have. McBee can score but he gives up a lot on defense, despite his best efforts. He gives it all he has and hustles, but ideally we need another guard who can shoot and play defense much better in seasons to come. I'm not down on McBee because he gives it everything he has. I just wish we could find that other guard and McBee could come off the bench in spot situations when we need some 3pt shots or to break a zone in shorter minutes.

This isn't an isolated case. There have always been instances when an offensive gunner just couldn't play decent defense, either because they wouldn't expend the effort or just lacked the physical skills, which is Skylar's case.
 
#65
#65
I don't expect to ever see Golden play extended minutes at any position at UT other than PG. He is listed at 6'1" and I would guess the average SEC 2 guard is in the 6'4"-6'5" range. That is just too much height to give up night after night for a guy that is barely an average defender anyway. Look how many guys McBee has to guard that are a couple inches taller than he is. And he's listed at 6'3". Given what the UT roster looks like now I can't see playing a 5'11" PG and then a 6'1" SG and a skinny 6'5" at the wing and being very successful in conference play except in some specific situations.
 
#66
#66
Check out Florida starting 3...
5'8" 177
6'2" 189
6'3" 207

Starting 3 for Tennessee that you're talking about with Stanton...

5'10" 175
6'1" 209
6'5" 175

We would be comparable in height at 1-2 an much taller at the 3, and would be stronger at the 1 and 2, but not the 3. Florida is pretty good with their 1-3. I would also venture to say golden would be a much better defender at the 2 than the 1. Most 2 aren't going to be nearly as quick as the PG he's been facing so I don't think you'd see him get blown by like he does now. The only advantage they'd have is height and I dont see that being huge as not many 2 guards want to post up, so it' be more a matter of getting shot over, and I feel if he sticks right with them and has a hand up hed be just fine.

Plus I'd take stokes and maymon over Murphy and young any day of the week.
 
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