Bama player appeared to hit woman as he left the field…

#151
#151
apevol said:
if this dude is a salesman how do you spin that to a client whos aware of his statements? There are mistakes and then theres doing things too dumb to tolerate. I don't think any employer should have an obligation to fire someone for something they post online (within reason) but you can hardly call it the right thing from an ethical standpoint to retain the guy. I don't think its a serious miscarriage of justice either way in this instance.
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Easy answer - if indeed clients quit buying from us and when asked why they say it was due to this guy’s stupid twitter posts then his job performance has become diminished. Firing him for the possibility his performance may become unsatisfactory is wrong IMO.
 
#153
#153
VFL92 said:
Agree 100% about that. Who's at fault is very black and white.

But the ramifications of the legal process playing out are not black and white. It wouldn't take place in a vacuum, there would be a ripple effect. To my knowledge, there's never been a case of a player being charged with assault on a fan entering the field/court. There would be a strong reaction from the SEC and/or NCAA to prevent this from happening in the future. It's a black eye for those entities and they'll be highly motivated to increase the penalties for fans rushing the court/field in the future. You can count on that.
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Just a quick google
NU player charged for hitting Tigers fan

If a fan comes on the filed during the actually game, then they're fair game, not after the game as long as they pose no threat to you and in the posted video, there was no threat, and the Bama player knew before hand that fans would be coming on to the field...

People have been storming the field for years after a big win. SEC/NCAA not going to do anything that they haven't already done and that's to fine the school
 
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#154
#154
walkenvol said:
Easy answer - if indeed clients quit buying from us and when asked why they say it was due to this guy’s stupid twitter posts then his job performance has become diminished. Firing him for the possibility his performance may become unsatisfactory is wrong IMO.
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Who determines thats wrong? The government? Who are you to tell an employer who they can fire and why?
 
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#156
#156
Any argument that invokes "fans shouldn't have been on the field" is a red herring argument.

Because it doesn't matter. It simply makes no difference.

Why not?

Because the Alabama player didn't smack the fans before they were on the field. He smacked them after they took the field.

They had already committed the grievous sin of getting excited and rushing the field to celebrate (how dare they?).

That having happened, everyone involved must reset their Morality Calculators. Because that part, fans on the field, is now a pre-condition for any decision about "what's the right thing to do?"

And the right thing to do is, obviously, don't hit other people who aren't threatening you. Don't hit a young woman who walks by talking on her cellphone.

It doesn't matter if she's smiling, and you're unhappy. It doesn't matter if she's in your path. It doesn't matter if she's wearing the colors of the team that just beat you. There are no valid reasons--no valid excuses--for hitting another person under those circumstances.

So, for those who want to try the "but she shouldn't have been there" defense, give it up. It's not a part of the calculation at the instant he swings.

Dude acted like a thug. Needs to sit out at least one game, and undergo mandatory anger management training. And if the folks he hit sue him for damages, he can pay that price, too. And if the NFL decides not to give him a chance to hit some other woman while in their employ, that's on him, too.

Bad decision, thuggish behavior.
 
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#157
#157
walkenvol said:
You know that it’s not limited to that alone
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walkenvol said:
Nobody said it was ok as it was clearly a stupid comment. But, we still have freedom of speech in this country last I checked. Sticks and stones - remember? This guy only typed some words, he didn’t assault anyone and his employer has no right to take actions against him. He should be judged at work on the basis of his job performance. JMO
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Freedom of speech is about being free from consequences from govt. Your employer is not operating under the same rules. No different than posting here on VN
 
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#158
#158
apevol said:
Who determines thats wrong? The government? Who are you to tell an employer who they can fire and why?
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Somebody who has run a business and is familiar with the fair labor laws and what is an acceptable firing offense. And yes, our government makes laws in which businesses have to operate
 
#159
#159
walkenvol said:
Somebody who has run a business and is familiar with the fair labor laws and what is an acceptable firing offense. And yes, our government makes laws in which businesses have to operate
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So you want the government to mandate retention of employees who applaud violence against women?
 
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#160
#160
apevol said:
So you want the government to mandate retention of employees who applaud violence against women?
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Is this guy a member of some organization supporting violence against women or did he make a single stupid social media post around an athletic event? Exaggerate much?
 
#161
#161
walkenvol said:
Is this guy a member of some organization supporting violence against women or did he make a single stupid social media post around an athletic event? Exaggerate much?
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You're exaggerating what I said and accusing me of exaggerating?
 
#164
#164
walkenvol said:
Nobody said it was ok as it was clearly a stupid comment. But, we still have freedom of speech in this country last I checked. Sticks and stones - remember? This guy only typed some words, he didn’t assault anyone and his employer has no right to take actions against him. He should be judged at work on the basis of his job performance. JMO
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Freedom of speech comes with a corollary: possibility of consequence.

You are free to say anything you want. And the people around you are free to disagree with your speech. And they are free to take actions to signal their displeasure with your choices.

-- If they are the government, and you violate a law (like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater), you can be prosecuted for your free speech.
-- If they are your employer, and decide you don't acceptably represent their organization, they can end your employment.
-- If they are the host, and you are their guest (whether in a real physical space like a bar, or an online space like vn.com), they can kick you out.

So yep. Lots of freedom to go around in America. And lots of consequences to accompany all that freedom. Those who don't want the consequences are, of course, free to moderate their speech. Their choice. Their freedom.

We shouldn't want it any other way.

Go Vols!
 
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#166
#166
I've been lucky enough to get to watch a game from the field twice. I was told both time not to say one word to the visiting team's players and coaches. The field is a "safe space" for both teams. The video seems like small potatoes. If a player charges up into the stands as we've seen at many basketball games, it's a different deal IMO.
 
#168
#168
Eh, based on that video, criminal assault seems too much. He definitely needs to be punished but should be football related. Send the message that crap wont be tolerated but no reason to ruin the kids life for the actions I see on that video.
 
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#170
#170
I think this all comes down to two basic truths of life:

1. Unless she is actively attacking you, never hit a woman
2. Unless you want a &$#@storm to come down on you unlike anything you have ever experienced, do not provoke Vol Twitterdom.

You’re welcome.
 
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#171
#171
Gandalf said:
Eh, based on that video, criminal assault seems too much. He definitely needs to be punished but should be football related. Send the message that crap wont be tolerated but no reason to ruin the kids life for the actions I see on that video.
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3, 2, 1…..look out!
 
#172
#172
walkenvol said:
Steve absolutely made a stupid comment, but what has our country become when you make a stupid comment while off from work and your employer fires you?
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They dug up his ‘N’ word tweet and tagged the company. Old racist sounding white guy in this social environment is what will get him fired, not simply being an ignorant a-hole.
 
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#173
#173
hog88 said:
In TN you can absolutely be fired for embarrassing your employer.
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Do / say stupid stuff while at work and especially in front of customers then absolutely. Talking smack around a charged athletic event on your own time - I’d hate to do that then have to defend it in court against a competent lawyer. My morality meter tells me that it’s not a just consequence.
 
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#174
#174
I doubt anything will come of it as we know the SEC prohibits fans from rushing the field and has already penalized the university for allowing it. I’m not a legal expert but I think I t could be argued that UT carries liability for any injuries sustained, security problems etc. While I totally understand the fans wanting to do this given what we have been through as a fanbase; I hope that sort of behavior is out of our system.
 
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