Bammer Championships Debunked

#126
#126
volinbham said:
Simple - because it's all you ever freakin' talk about -- I mean you guys wear shirts proclaiming it as if no one heard you the other 4 million times you said it! No other team that has won as many or near as many feels compelled to tell everyone this fact about their program ad naseum.
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Oklahoma fans, for example, are far more concerned about winning another one.
 
#127
#127
guy passing through said:
You spend all that time on these three seasons and didn't realize Bama doesn't claim any of those three? Great analysis, sport.

ut claims six of the seven listed on the ncaa site, including the '67 campaign that is recognized by Litkenhous and ... and... and..., well, that's about it. And then there's the 1940 championship on ut's website recognized by Litkenhous and Dunkel.

Alabama's clearly more discriminating than the ncaa, claiming only 12 of the 17 they show. None of the three your crack "analysis" takes to task are claimed. ut claims six of the seven listed:

www.utsports.com | Official Web Site of The University of Tennessee Men's Athletic Department

Whose claim is more valid? Bama's 12 (of 17) or ut's six of seven?
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Notice nobody claims the 1939 season where in 10 regular season games (all wins) the Vols did not give up a single point. The last team to do such a feat. The allvol ranking recognizes that season.... therefore, you can put the Vols number at 8. :)
 
#128
#128
WillisWG said:
Billingsley’s National Champions

I'll give credit where credit is due. But Bama has FIVE not 12. If you b(small b)oys want to claim more then go ahead. There is plenty of room in the lair's club. I'd rank BAMA right between Richard Nixon's "I'm not a lair!" and Bill Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman!"

Billingsley’s National Champions
Alabama1925
Alabama1926
Alabama1961
Alabama979
Alabama1992

Tennessee1938​
Tennessee1950
Tennessee1998
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Although Billingsley's computer ranking is one of the BCS rankings, he does not really impress me. In one of his most recent rankings, 14 of the top 15 teams dropped the Billingsley ranking in the BCS calculation (the highest and lowest are dropped when calculating computer rank average). He also has Tennessee ranked 11 spots below California. How a computer can look and Tennessee 35-Cal 18 and put the loser 11 spots higher???? Anyways... my point is that Billingsley is not a very good reference.
 
#129
#129
Roll Tide Rev said:
But enough about us... lets all bask in the greatness that is UT. Here we go!

Tennessee's first National Championship came 13 years after that Rose bowl win when Bob Neyland took the Vols to 11-0 .

Tennessee's next National Championship came in 1940... wait a minute... somethings not right here. In 1940 UT was 10-1 and ranked 5th in the power ratings behind umm undefeated Stanford and Mississippi State and Boston College. Well, UT says they won it so OK. ;scr

Tennessee claims 1950 as their next national championship. Hmm lets see, 11-1 record and lost their bowl game. Wait a minute... three other teams had better records that year Wyoming, Clemson and Princeton. Notably, Kentucky was also 11-1 and won their bowl game.

New year, New championship! 1951 UT is 10-1. Yeah, Yeah Georgia Tech ; Maryland, Illinois and Michigan State are all undefeated but move along... nothing to dispute here.

Aha, now we move into 1967. Tennessee has a banner 9-2 season. Once again losing their bowl game. Once again Southern Cal, Oklahoma and Wyoming have better records.

1998.. just ask Phillip Fulmer, this is the epitome of Tennessee football. A "legit" national championship. Ask him, go ahead. He has been living off of it for nearly 10 years. And feeding quite well I might add.
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Polls taken prebowl as has been stated previously. So let's check prebowl records.

Neyland became coach in 1926. His first stint as coach lasted from 1926-34. He had 5 undefeated seasons during that run. (27, 28, 29, 31, and 32).

The SEC was formed in 1933 with teams breaking away from the Southern Conference.

Neyland came back to coach from 1936-40. During that stint, he had 3 undefeated teams during the regular season (1938, 1939, and 1940). All 3 of the those seasons were SEC Championship Seasons. The NC listed by Tennessee are those "officially" recognized by the NCAA. Some of those are retro computer rankings. That is why the NCAA and Tennessee list 1938 and 1940. Interestingly, the 1939 team, which was ranked No. 1 for 4 weeks during the season finished No. 2 in the final rankings.... and they did not give up a single point all season. They blanked #8 Alabama 21-0 and #18 LSU 20-0. On a side note: George Cafego finished 7th (1938) and 4th (1939) on Heisman ballots.

Neyland returned to coach again from 1946-52. The Vols finished undefeated during the regular season winning its first CONSENSUS national championship in 1951. However, the tone for the season was set up in 1950 when the 4th ranked Vols upset the 3rd ranked Texas Longhorns in the Cotton Bowl. The Vols were fresh off of upsetting (#3 at the time) Kentucky prior to the bowl. Kentucky won the Sugar Bowl... knocking off the #1 team. #2 lost after the polls as well. Had the polls been taken after bowls, the Vols would have won the 1950 NC.... conversely, had the polls been taken after bowls in 1951, the Vols would have lost. Hank Lauricella finished 2nd on the Heisman ballot in 1951.

In 1956, Johnny Majors finished 2nd on the Heisman ballot. The Vols finished the regular season undefeated but ranked 2nd in the polls. Again, as in 1939, the Vols reached No. 1 during midseason... but dropped to No. 2? Especially after the Vols had just beaten No. 2 Georgia Tech and No. 19 Ole Miss in back-to-back games prior to dropping to no. 2.

In 1967, the Vols finished the regular season with 1 loss. 1967 is the last season that the AP's final poll was taken prior to bowls. The Vols lost their first game of the season at #8 UCLA 16-20. They then reeled off 9 straight wins and were No. 2 in the AP by midseason. Wins included beating #6 Alabama in Birmingham 24-13. I believe this was the game on the cover of SI?

1998 speaks for itself. The Vols beat every team they faced. And as Fulmer "has been living off of it for nearly 10 years." So have the Bammers that keep saying "Got Twelve". Which team won the NC more recently again?
 
#131
#131
Roll Tide Rev said:
1. NC's were awarded before the bowl games. Hence the inception of the BCS. Which is also flawed and will be until we have a playoff system.

2. This "list" fails to recognize years such as 1966 where Bama should have been the first and only three-peat team and the years 1945, 1962, 1966, 1975, and 1977 where Alabama had a claim to the NC but is not recognized as having won it.

3. Bama recognizes 12. That is a conservative number.

Rivals love to break out this epiphany they believe to bolster their own program. Why Rivals insist on bashing Alabama and our records is forever beyond me. Alabama was instrumental in bringing Southeastern football to the forefront of the college football world when we were the first southern team to play in a Rose Bowl. You guys don't know your history, before Alabama went to the Rose Bowl and won in 1925, southern college football was not even considered an organized institution. We were not even in the likes of say Conference USA of today as an example. It was all about the IVY league schools and ND and Michigan and what have you. Alabama changed that perception, southern schools began competing and producing athletes on an unprecedented scale after that. Alabama has had a rich tradition of winning throughout the years which can not be ummm "disputed". Here are a few:

The team has won 21 SEC titles . Additionally, the team has compiled 31 10-win seasons, played in 53 bowl games, winning 30 of them—all NCAA records. Alabama has produced 19 hall-of-famers (Paul "Bear" Bryant, Harry Gilmer, Johnny Mac Brown, Johnny Cain, John Hannah, Frank Howard, Pooley Hubert, Lee Roy Jordan, Dixie Howell, Don Hutson, Vaughn Mancha, Johnny Musso, Ozzie Newsome, Riley Smith, Billy Neighbors, Fred Sington, Frank Thomas, Wallace Wade, Don Whitmire) and 91 All-Americans honored 101 times. These are all NCAA records.


But enough about us... lets all bask in the greatness that is UT. Here we go!



Tennessee's first National Championship came 13 years after that Rose bowl win when Bob Neyland took the Vols to 11-0 .

Tennessee's next National Championship came in 1940... wait a minute... somethings not right here. In 1940 UT was 10-1 and ranked 5th in the power ratings behind umm undefeated Stanford and Mississippi State and Boston College. Well, UT says they won it so OK. ;scr

Tennessee claims 1950 as their next national championship. Hmm lets see, 11-1 record and lost their bowl game. Wait a minute... three other teams had better records that year Wyoming, Clemson and Princeton. Notably, Kentucky was also 11-1 and won their bowl game.

New year, New championship! 1951 UT is 10-1. Yeah, Yeah Georgia Tech ; Maryland, Illinois and Michigan State are all undefeated but move along... nothing to dispute here.

Aha, now we move into 1967. Tennessee has a banner 9-2 season. Once again losing their bowl game. Once again Southern Cal, Oklahoma and Wyoming have better records.

1998.. just ask Phillip Fulmer, this is the epitome of Tennessee football. A "legit" national championship. Ask him, go ahead. He has been living off of it for nearly 10 years. And feeding quite well I might add.

CONGRATS GUYS!! :D
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:the_finger: :the_finger: :the_finger:
 
#132
#132
GAVol said:
Princeton, Yale and Harvard might as well get shirts . . . They'd be just about as relevant and they've got just as much of a chance of playing for another National championship in the foreseeable future as Alabama.
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Ouch. :lol:
 
#133
#133
allvol said:
Polls taken prebowl as has been stated previously. So let's check prebowl records.

Neyland became coach in 1926. His first stint as coach lasted from 1926-34. He had 5 undefeated seasons during that run. (27, 28, 29, 31, and 32).

The SEC was formed in 1933 with teams breaking away from the Southern Conference.

Neyland came back to coach from 1936-40. During that stint, he had 3 undefeated teams during the regular season (1938, 1939, and 1940). All 3 of the those seasons were SEC Championship Seasons. The NC listed by Tennessee are those "officially" recognized by the NCAA. Some of those are retro computer rankings. That is why the NCAA and Tennessee list 1938 and 1940. Interestingly, the 1939 team, which was ranked No. 1 for 4 weeks during the season finished No. 2 in the final rankings.... and they did not give up a single point all season. They blanked #8 Alabama 21-0 and #18 LSU 20-0. On a side note: George Cafego finished 7th (1938) and 4th (1939) on Heisman ballots.

Neyland returned to coach again from 1946-52. The Vols finished undefeated during the regular season winning its first CONSENSUS national championship in 1951. However, the tone for the season was set up in 1950 when the 4th ranked Vols upset the 3rd ranked Texas Longhorns in the Cotton Bowl. The Vols were fresh off of upsetting (#3 at the time) Kentucky prior to the bowl. Kentucky won the Sugar Bowl... knocking off the #1 team. #2 lost after the polls as well. Had the polls been taken after bowls, the Vols would have won the 1950 NC.... conversely, had the polls been taken after bowls in 1951, the Vols would have lost. Hank Lauricella finished 2nd on the Heisman ballot in 1951.

In 1956, Johnny Majors finished 2nd on the Heisman ballot. The Vols finished the regular season undefeated but ranked 2nd in the polls. Again, as in 1939, the Vols reached No. 1 during midseason... but dropped to No. 2? Especially after the Vols had just beaten No. 2 Georgia Tech and No. 19 Ole Miss in back-to-back games prior to dropping to no. 2.

In 1967, the Vols finished the regular season with 1 loss. 1967 is the last season that the AP's final poll was taken prior to bowls. The Vols lost their first game of the season at #8 UCLA 16-20. They then reeled off 9 straight wins and were No. 2 in the AP by midseason. Wins included beating #6 Alabama in Birmingham 24-13. I believe this was the game on the cover of SI?

1998 speaks for itself. The Vols beat every team they faced. And as Fulmer "has been living off of it for nearly 10 years." So have the Bammers that keep saying "Got Twelve". Which team won the NC more recently again?
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AllVol: VN Guru tried and true.

While I love the history lessons, and do give credit to Bama's history..... This third Saturday of October is what matters!!!
 
#134
#134
While I love the history lessons, and do give credit to Bama's history..... This third Saturday of October is what matters!!!
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I agree! It's about Saturday and Saturday only. Championships, Streaks, the Past, matters none. Leave it all on the field..

BTW I brought up my info to defend our past only. If UT wins Saturday, you wont see or hear of me falling back on the past.
 
#135
#135
I guess you have to talk about past NC's when everyone knows your the 2nd best team in your state.
 
#136
#136
I guess you have to talk about past NC's when everyone knows your the 2nd best team in your state.
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Ya you should know since Vandy has the last win in your matchup. That is if were...ummm.....leaving the past records out. Right?
 
#139
#139
Can't wait until Saturday afternoon when you crawl back into your hole. Of course, you'll be back next year around this time to talk about how good Alabama used to be.
 
#140
#140
No you guys started this with bringing up the past, and trying to discredit it. I will be back Saturday night to rub it in good for you all being bad little boys.
 
#141
#141
This just in: The Alabama Chapter of the Daughters of Confederate Veterans has just voted the Tide the 1863 National Champions. Congratulations to all Tide fans on lucky #13.
 
#145
#145
In other news: Two crack whores next to Legion Field just awarded Alabama the 1966 National Championship. Accepting the trophy, as well as two rocks and a nasty STD, was Gene Jelks.
 
#147
#147
So far I've tried to stay out of this one. But I will say that I don't know how official any "championship" before about 1960 or whenever the A.P. Poll started is. But the point I'm making is that whether we have between 7 or 17 doesn't matter, because whatever criteria is used ALWAYS has Alabama at the top in National Championships. And that my Vol friends is all we really care about.
 
#150
#150
i might be going out on a limb here, but i'm going to bet there won't be a single Bama fan to be found around here about 7pm Saturday night.
 
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