Bashing needs to stop

[sjt18]

2010 numbers were 4.2 ypr and 152 yards per game rushing and 11.8 ypc and 229 yard per game passing.

The big difference was in 2010 we had 26 sacks and this year only had 18. Which I believe hammers home the point that the injuries to the d line really hampered the play of the d.

The problem I would point out there is that the '10 was a patchwork DL from the very start. Ayres started games... as a 265 lb walk-on at DT. M Jackson played DT as a natural DE. There was little if any quality depth and one or both DE's have bad knees.

Wilcox just found ways to get it done. Jancek didn't. Maybe that changes going forward... but again, I want proof before giving "slack".

 

[sjt18]

That's nuts.

Go look at their roster and especially what they replaced in their back 7 on D. They have been coached up but they started the season with depth, experience, and talent holes on their team.

 

[sjt18]

I do not think it is unreasonable. I think the only fair comparison from last year is the defense and stat wise they have showed improvement with basically the same players. Are they improvement we all would like to see? No but there were injuries to key cogs of the defense and obvious talent issues.

Sunseri simply isn't a valid baseline to suggest that "better" is anything like "good"... or not like terrible.

 

[GAVol]

Go look at their roster and especially what they replaced in their back 7 on D. They have been coached up but they started the season with depth, experience, and talent holes on their team.

You might find a few spots here and there where we're similar, but you're sitting there trying to downplay a win over a team that just finished the year ranked #8 in the country. SC is a little more talented than you're giving them credit for.

 

[sjt18]

You might find a few spots here and there where we're similar, but you're sitting there trying to downplay a win over a team that just finished the year ranked #8 in the country. SC is a little more talented than you're giving them credit for.

Just look at the roster.... and the lay of their schedule... AND the quality of their schedule. They played the two worst teams from the West. UT played the best two. Their best OOC opponent was not Oregon. It was Clemson who was 1 for 3 against the good opponents they played... lost to FSU by blowout.

USCe was coached up and Spurrier managed their schedule much the way Fulmer used to do at times.

Versus UT's schedule... what do you honestly think their record is? Do you honestly think they beat Bama, Auburn, or Oregon? Against their schedule... what do you honestly think UT's record is given that depth isn't as big of a deal against a weaker schedule?

IMHO, UT is no worse than a 8 win team and probably a 9 win team vs USCe's schedule. I believe USCe would have been no better than 7-5 which is where I said UT would be if they got above avg coaching.

The score and competitiveness of that game is an accurate reflection of how close the rosters were with consideration for some favorable match ups for UT... and it was the best coached game by UT all year except for UGA.

 

[sjt18]

BTW, honesty isn't "downplaying". It was a good win but there isn't a significant talent disparity if any at all.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

IMHO, UT is no worse than a 8 win team and probably a 9 win team vs USCe's schedule. I believe USCe would have been no better than 7-5 which is where I said UT would be if they got above avg coaching.

We where inches away from beating UGA , poorly reviewed and overturned play by the rules from beating vandy which would make us 7-5.

Considering at the start of the season no predicted Mizzou and Auburn being so good add to it the fact that we had to play the toughest part of our schedule with what amounts to our 4th string QB we had a decent season except to those who had unrealistic expectations.

 

[sjt18]

We where inches away from beating UGA , poorly reviewed and overturned play by the rules from beating vandy which would make us 7-5.

I would count the UGA game as a positive for the staff and team. Vandy shouldn't have been close enough for that or even a last minute drive by them to matter. UT should have beaten them about as bad as UK. Jones unfortunately gave them too much respect and let a lesser team stay in it long enough to steal it. Hopefully he learns from that mistake.

Considering at the start of the season no predicted Mizzou and Auburn being so good add to it the fact that we had to play the toughest part of our schedule with what amounts to our 4th string QB we had a decent season except to those who had unrealistic expectations.

Nope. A 7 loss season with one of those losses coming to a team with inferior talent... is subpar. The staff is not doomed by it... but don't try to pretend it was good because it wasn't. They have to overcome it and prove they belong in the SEC. They have not done that on the field yet. They are doing it in recruiting but that only gets you half way there.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Nope. A 7 loss season with one of those losses coming to a team with inferior talent... is subpar. The staff is not doomed by it... but don't try to pretend it was good because it wasn't. They have to overcome it and prove they belong in the SEC. They have not done that on the field yet. They are doing it in recruiting but that only gets you half way there.

Losing to vandy is never a good thing but I think CBJ did the best anybody could coaching that game given the injuries at QB and North going out early in the game, Dobbs horrible game passing.

Vandy may have inferior talent but they have been under the same coaching staff three years and Franklin has the players in place to run his system. One year isnt enough to wash the Dooley stench off this team.

 

[sjt18]

Losing to vandy is never a good thing but I think CBJ did the best anybody could coaching that game given the injuries at QB and North going out early in the game, Dobbs horrible game passing.

I disagree. I think his overall strategy is what cost them the game. Dobbs made early mistakes and the OC/Jones lost their nerve. Based on statements during and after the game, Jones seemed to have a "play not to lose" mentality in the back of his mind anyway. After a couple of mistakes... he just quit trying to win it and started trying to not lose it.

Again, I hope that's the last time we ever see him do that... and especially against an inferior team.

Vandy may have inferior talent but they have been under the same coaching staff three years and Franklin has the players in place to run his system. One year isnt enough to wash the Dooley stench off this team.

Nothing to do with any Dooley "stench". To say that in game 11 is just reaching for an excuse.

Jones should have won that game. It was there for the taking and they missed it by being too conservative and because Dobbs and others weren't as prepared as they could and probably should have been.

It is over. They can still make it good and turn it around. But stop trying to excuse the coaching from responsibility for that loss. It was squarely on them.

 

[allvol123]

That's nuts.

Straight up.

 

[Spartacavolus]

goodness gracious

 

[knoxvols11]

Well, the one positive for the nega vols is when Saban leaves for Texas it will ease things for everyone!

 

[sjt18]

Well, the one positive for the nega vols is when Saban leaves for Texas it will ease things for everyone!

I guess I'm alone on this one too... I've never liked "winning" because the guy I couldn't beat moved on or quit.

I'd much rather Jones' rise to greatness include re-establishing dominance over Bama WITH Saban.

 

[GrowVol]

I guess I'm alone on this one too... I've never liked "winning" because the guy I couldn't beat moved on or quit.

I'd much rather Jones' rise to greatness include re-establishing dominance over Bama WITH Saban.

Yeah, EXCEPT..... you would then post we beat Saban only because he had a brain fart on a few plays.... made a few bad calls. Wonder why...?
Oh, forgot...your team is not going to 3 peat this year, bammer.:birgits_giggle:

 

[sjt18]

Yeah, EXCEPT..... you would then post we beat Saban only because he had a brain fart on a few plays.... made a few bad calls. Wonder why...?
Oh, forgot...your team is not going to 3 peat this year, bammer.:birgits_giggle:

Oh good grief. Grow up there Growvol. I simple look at my post history would save you from looking like an abject moron... try it some time.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

Well, the one positive for the nega vols is when Saban leaves for Texas it will ease things for everyone!

We can all hope.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

667

 

[knoxvols11]

I guess I'm alone on this one too... I've never liked "winning" because the guy I couldn't beat moved on or quit.

I'd much rather Jones' rise to greatness include re-establishing dominance over Bama WITH Saban.

You make a convincing case for this. It's the same rationale for Tn rise is SEC football. Bryant, Dooley and others began to retire and traditional powers such as LSU and Ole Miss lost their competativenes from the glory days of the 50's and 60's.

 

[GrowVol]

Oh good grief. Grow up there Growvol. I simple look at my post history would save you from looking like an abject moron... try it some time.

I know your not a bammer, but realistically, we all need to grow up. It just seems to me, A fan of the Vols that goes to such great links to bash a team they so call "support" makes me think of our biggest rival, which is Alabama. Some negative posters that continue to be "realistic", get fearful of being even slightly positive of what the team is doing and building don't seem like fans to me...they are rivals.
Your posts resemble so much of bamawriters....that I assumed. I was wrong. I apologize.Put me on ignore list.

 

[sjt18]

I know your not a bammer, but realistically, we all need to grow up. It just seems to me, A fan of the Vols that goes to such great links to bash a team they so call "support" makes me think of our biggest rival, which is Alabama.

Yet you only take shots at those who are critical of poor coaching? How about those who have harped on how untalented and slow the players were/are? How about those who have said this player or that one "suck"?

Yet I give you some fairly objective criticisms of the coaches and suddenly you feel the need to insult me?

Some negative posters that continue to be "realistic", get fearful of being even slightly positive of what the team is doing and building don't seem like fans to me...they are rivals.

Perhaps you have not seen the numerous posts where I have acknowledged things Jones is doing well? His recruiting so far is absolutely exceptional. I am not sure it could be better.

The remarkable thing to me at least on the surface is that his class appears to be quite different from other highly rated UT classes in a very important way.

Fulmer, Kiffin, and even Dooley have signed highly rated classes in the last 10 years. Each one of them took big risks on their most highly rated players. IMO that's why so many were either busts or else got booted for various reasons. The homestate schools for those very talented players like took a pass in favor of guys with just as much talent but without the baggage and risk.

Jones' commits do not appear to be like that. Their talent appears to be legit AND they appear to not be character or academic risks. He's getting players that the competition REALLY does want.

I've been watching this a long time and UT hasn't done it that way since right around the time of the NC.

Your posts resemble so much of bamawriters....that I assumed. I was wrong. I apologize.Put me on ignore list.

Ignore list is for cowards. The only people I would consider doing that with are people who bore me. You don't... yet. Unlike many, I like being challenged.

 

[GrowVol]

Yet you only take shots at those who are critical of poor coaching? How about those who have harped on how untalented and slow the players were/are? How about those who have said this player or that one "suck"?

Yet I give you some fairly objective criticisms of the coaches and suddenly you feel the need to insult me?

Perhaps you have not seen the numerous posts where I have acknowledged things Jones is doing well? His recruiting so far is absolutely exceptional. I am not sure it could be better.

The remarkable thing to me at least on the surface is that his class appears to be quite different from other highly rated UT classes in a very important way.

Fulmer, Kiffin, and even Dooley have signed highly rated classes in the last 10 years. Each one of them took big risks on their most highly rated players. IMO that's why so many were either busts or else got booted for various reasons. The homestate schools for those very talented players like took a pass in favor of guys with just as much talent but without the baggage and risk.

Jones' commits do not appear to be like that. Their talent appears to be legit AND they appear to not be character or academic risks. He's getting players that the competition REALLY does want.

I've been watching this a long time and UT hasn't done it that way since right around the time of the NC.



Ignore list is for cowards. The only people I would consider doing that with are people who bore me. You don't... yet. Unlike many, I like being challenged.

I respect your response, and you are correct...but honestly, did you ever think any coach in the world could come into this train wreck of a program and consistently make the perfect coaching decision with the talent and schedule challenges?
Much less a Big East coach?
Point being, I understand and respect questioning coaching calls and and venting about players..but the wholesale negative stuff...is just that. negative

 

[RWB427]

sjt18,

I am not following you here. In this post you refer to this class as "highly rated" and "appearing to have legit talent that the competition also wants".

In a previous post in the Coaching Change thread after I commented that I wanted to see this staff with the talent that they are brining in before any changes. You then responded by saying, these recruits were about average in reference to ratings with the last 10 years and they better be able to "coach them up".

So I guess my question is, do you think this recruiting job is on par with the last ten years as you said in the coaching change thread or highly ranked class and a remarkable thing such as you mentioned in this thread.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what your saying and if so, I apologize now, however it appears to me you are contradicting yourself somewhat.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Jones should have won that game. It was there for the taking and they missed it by being too conservative and because Dobbs and others weren't as prepared as they could and probably should have been.

Going for a fake field goal on 4th and 19 is anything but conservative. Whether you admit it or not the playing calling was effected by Dobbs early ints, North getting hurt and inability of any of our other receivers to make plays.

And on paper UT may have superior talent but vandy is playing under a coaching staff that has been together for 3 years while some of our players have had three head coaches and multiple positional coaches given those circumstances a team with inferior talent can beat a better team.