Battle of Madison

#26
#26
vol_in_il said:
The Governor's fiscal responsibility needs to spread to most states, especially
IL and California....IL just raised state income taxes, another 2%
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Our Governor has decided to raise income, sales, gasoline, and every sin tax. Also has decided that local property taxes can no longer be credited against your state income tax bill, as in the past.
 
#28
#28
therealUT said:
Collective-bargaining rights always seems a little oxymoronic in my opinion.

Collective-bargaining agreements restrict individual rights to negotiate contracts and create exclusive work atmospheres and industries. The less unions and collective bargaining agreements, the better.
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The oxymoron is the ability for capital to barter / bargain at will but not labor.

The real issue is an individual's bargaining power is far, far more limited against the concentration of Capital's bargaining power.

Which is the way the counter-revolutionaries want it.
 
#29
#29
If y'all are so committed to reducing the deficit (on money your generation borrowed) it has to be taxes. You could have spent it on health care and education, but you spent it on war and Welfare Dads. In fact, it is your own faults.

If you want the tax plan of Adam Smith, you would actually have my support. This is the only Fair Tax. But you don't.

And if you scream "cut spending!" without mentioning defense and prisons you are just blowing so much smoke.
 
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#30
#30
utgibbs said:
If y'all are so committed to reducing the deficit (on money your generation borrowed) it has to be taxes. You could have spent it on health care and education, but you spent it on war and Welfare Dads. In fact, it is your own faults.

If you want the tax plan of Adam Smith, you would actually have my support. This is the only Fair Tax. But you don't.

And if you scream "cut spending!" without mentioning defense and prisons you are just blowing so much smoke.
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Explain what his tax plan was. It's been awhile since I've read the Wealth of Nations.
 
#31
#31
Rasputin_Vol said:
Explain what his tax plan was. It's been awhile since I've read the Wealth of Nations.
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Adam Smith had four maxims for taxation:

64. Adam Smith Gave Four Maxims in Regard to Taxes

I like to shorten them for the sound-byte age to:

1. Simple
2. Transparent
3. Progressive

And actually Adam has Progressive at the top. The fourth maxim, I believe, falls naturally out of the first three. When the revenues are collected in this manner, there are fewer bureaucrats and officers to collect the taxes, there is less need to enforce collection, people pay at and according to their means in the simplest method possible. It naturally decreases the tax burden.
 
#32
#32
yeah no waste in the budgets of california and the feds. more taxes are clearly the only answer.
 
#33
#33
droski said:
yeah no waste in the budgets of california and the feds. more taxes are clearly the only answer.
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Sure, the vast majority of the discretionary budget is wasted on military and policing.

Adopting a Simple, Transparent, and Progressive tax system would undoubtedly also cut IRS waste and reduce its menace. It would certainly more fairly distribute the tax burden, and see the vast majority of people paying a lot less in taxes.
 
#34
#34
utgibbs said:
Sure, the vast majority of the discretionary budget is wasted on military and policing.

Adopting a Simple, Transparent, and Progressive tax system would undoubtedly also cut IRS waste and reduce its menace. It would certainly more fairly distribute the tax burden, and see the vast majority of people paying a lot less in taxes.
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It still confounds all reason and logic that the GOP would be hell-bent on cutting the budget, that the defense secretary would say that their budget is bloated and they actually advocate cuts in defense spending, and yet the GOP would if anything increase spending on pointless things that, oh by by the way, benefit huge contributors to their campaigns. It really dilutes the sanctimonious bs of their message, imo.
 
#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
yet the GOP would if anything increase spending on pointless things that, oh by by the way, benefit huge contributors to their campaigns.
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you want to give an example?

and I guess the dems don't get bought off by their union buddies right?
 
#36
#36
I've been reading up on this issue, and it really seems like public employees, be they teachers or bureaucrats, think they should be immune to the recession.

They are employed by the public and serve the public at the public's pleasure. The public is broke, it's time to cut back. If they don't like it, they can always work somewhere else. Lord knows there are lots of people just as qualified looking for work right now due to the recession, that wouldn't bat an eye at making some of the concessions being asked in this climate.
 
#37
#37
lawgator1 said:
It still confounds all reason and logic that the GOP would be hell-bent on cutting the budget, that the defense secretary would say that their budget is bloated and they actually advocate cuts in defense spending, and yet the GOP would if anything increase spending on pointless things that, oh by by the way, benefit huge contributors to their campaigns. It really dilutes the sanctimonious bs of their message, imo.
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Any talk of "balancing the budget" with cuts is all hogwash unless you start getting serious about the military budget. And, I believe, they've taken the "WAR" budget off-line anyway.

It is nothing but tripe. And yes, those beneficiaries represent the true Welfare State in our society.
 
#38
#38
IPorange said:
I've been reading up on this issue, and it really seems like public employees, be they teachers or bureaucrats, think they should be immune to the recession.

They are employed by the public and serve the public at the public's pleasure. The public is broke, it's time to cut back. If they don't like it, they can always work somewhere else. Lord knows there are lots of people just as qualified looking for work right now due to the recession, that wouldn't bat an eye at making some of the concessions being asked in this climate.
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Perhaps, but we are broke for reasons other than paying teachers and bureaucrats. In fact, we are largely broke from saving the banking industry and supporting the Pentagon.

To date, these have been the exact sectors which have borne NONE of the austerity we have demanded.
 
#39
#39
utgibbs said:
Perhaps, but we are broke for reasons other than paying teachers and bureaucrats. In fact, we are largely broke from saving the banking industry and supporting the Pentagon.

To date, these have been the exact sectors which have borne NONE of the austerity we have demanded.
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:lolabove:
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
It still confounds all reason and logic that the GOP would be hell-bent on cutting the budget, that the defense secretary would say that their budget is bloated and they actually advocate cuts in defense spending, and yet the GOP would if anything increase spending on pointless things that, oh by by the way, benefit huge contributors to their campaigns. It really dilutes the sanctimonious bs of their message, imo.
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they just voted to cut a few billion out of the F-35 project. Have to love the "they aren't doing enough" view that now comes out
 
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#41
#41
droski said:
:lolabove:
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This is where droski tells us how much money we made buying the "toxic" assets, and what a great deal the taxpayer got loaning at 0% interest so we could borrow at 4% interest.

Indeed,

:lolabove:
 
#43
#43
utgibbs said:
They aren't.
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and just how loud were you screaming the last few years? Please link those threads bashing the Dems for their spending habits for those that might not have been around.

They're going to cut some of everything or be removed. It's really simple
 
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#44
#44
utgibbs said:
Perhaps, but we are broke for reasons other than paying teachers and bureaucrats. In fact, we are largely broke from saving the banking industry and supporting the Pentagon.

To date, these have been the exact sectors which have borne NONE of the austerity we have demanded.
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How much did Wisconsin spend on the Pentagon and saving the banking industry?

We're broke because we were spending on a model of assumed continuous growth.
 
#45
#45
The GOP budget increases defense spending from $526 billion this year to $533 billion next.

They brag because its less of an increase than Obama's budget would have made it. Which is interesting considering the constant effort to portray Obama as soft on defense.

Note: This does not include Iraq and Afghanistan.

Side note: It will be interesting to see how many of the far right stick with Ron Paul when he makes it clearer that if he were POTUS we'd be out of Afghanistan in a week and he'd cut the defense budget in half.
 
#46
#46
utvolpj said:
and just how loud were you screaming the last few years. Please link those threads bashing the Dems for their spending habits for those that might not have been around.

They're going to cut some of everything or be removed. It's really simple
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I have expressed nothing but disappointment in Obama. I am not a Democrat. I have never praised Clinton / Pelosi et al. If they look like giants compared to their Republican counterparts, that is not my fault.

However, there is a Republican chorus demanding cuts EXCEPT on the welfare programs of Pentagon Pork and Corporate Welfare. Since these DWARF anything else in the budget, it is all nonsense and hogwash.
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
The GOP budget increases defense spending from $526 billion this year to $533 billion next.

They brag because its less of an increase than Obama's budget would have made it. Which is interesting considering the constant effort to portray Obama as soft on defense.

Note: This does not include Iraq and Afghanistan.

Side note: It will be interesting to see how many of the far right stick with Ron Paul when he makes it clearer that if he were POTUS we'd be out of Afghanistan in a week and he'd cut the defense budget in half.
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An examination of contributions of $500 or more, using the Huffington Post's Fundrace website, shows that employees of the top five arms makers - Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman, Raytheon and General Dynamics -- gave Democratic presidential candidates $103,900, with only $86,800 going to Republicans.

Defense Industry Embraces Democrats, Hillary By Far The Favorite
 
#48
#48
IPorange said:
How much did Wisconsin spend on the Pentagon and saving the banking industry?

We're broke because we were spending on a model of assumed continuous growth.
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Heard some commentary this morning which makes the very valid point that the sudden increase in oil prices could seriously derail the growth projections upon which the revenue forecasts have been built. The budget deficit could be much larger than anticipated if it continues or gets worse.
 
#49
#49
#50
#50
utgibbs said:
However, there is a Republican chorus demanding cuts EXCEPT on the welfare programs of Pentagon Pork and Corporate Welfare. Since these DWARF anything else in the budget, it is all nonsense and hogwash.
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except they just cuts billions out of the Pentagon. You really think it's not going to happen? If you're right we start over and put in some that can do the job. They are hitting the low-hanging fruit first and then will fight other cuts that are more difficult.
 
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