BCS does it again

#51
#51
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I think the only "fair" way to do it have for AQ conf champs (Make those CGs mean something) and 2 wild cards. Seed them with 1-2 getting a week off. Winners of 3v6 and 4v5 go onto play 1 and 2 them the NCG. That way you are only adding at most 3 games to the season of the lower seeds move on.

Some formula other than human opinion needs to decide the wild cards and seeding though. That is probably the least "fair" part. For instance, Bama just gets the benefit of the doubt as some people still think they are the better team than both AU and FSU.

Another part of the problem is there are just too many teams in FBS. Making it fair so the Boises get a chance along with the non power conference winners like Bama is going to be tough. As much as I hate expansion it may need to go to just Four 16 team Mega Confs and bump some teams back down to FCS. Of that would never happen because there is too much money involved.
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I like the idea of the Conference Champions and 2 WC, though that will cause crying if someone gets upset. But I think it's fine because one of the complaints about a playoff was devaluing the regular season, and making it so you almost have to win your conference keeps that in tact.

As far as the mid-majors, the only way I could see them getting in is if it went past 8 teams, and incorporate some kind of play-in mini-playoff for them. It would add too many games, so they may have to stick with all of the mid-major conferences fighting for one spot. It's not that I wouldn't want them involved somehow but I can't think of a great way to do it without screwing over more deserving major conference teams. I think the NCAA Basketball Tournament let's way too many smaller conference teams in, so I don't want to go down that path.
 
#52
#52
bowlinggreenvol said:
To be fair, that 04 OU team was undefeated as well. The SEC hadn't started its dominant run yet so they didn't have the respect/recognition OU did. If the scenario plays itself out again today, no way OU makes it.
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Granted, but OU had been beaten by LSU the previous year (when they definitely didn't deserve to be there). Of course it's hindsight but their performance vs SC proved they shouldn't have been there once again as the game was over by midway into the second Q.

Honestly OU has been the most overrated team since 2001. Even more so than tOSU. I hope we can muster up enough depth to beat them next year.
 
#53
#53
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I think the only "fair" way to do it have for AQ conf champs (Make those CGs mean something) and 2 wild cards. Seed them with 1-2 getting a week off. Winners of 3v6 and 4v5 go onto play 1 and 2 them the NCG. That way you are only adding at most 3 games to the season of the lower seeds move on.

Some formula other than human opinion needs to decide the wild cards and seeding though. That is probably the least "fair" part. For instance, Bama just gets the benefit of the doubt as some people still think they are the better team than both AU and FSU.

Another part of the problem is there are just too many teams in FBS. Making it fair so the Boises get a chance along with the non power conference winners like Bama is going to be tough. As much as I hate expansion it may need to go to just Four 16 team Mega Confs and bump some teams back down to FCS. Of that would never happen because there is too much money involved.
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AQ would be 6 teams and 2 Wild Cards makes for 8. Couldn't have first round byes because that would leave 6 teams playing each other resulting in 3 winners. Now you have 5 teams remaining (3 winners + 2 byes).
 
#54
#54
burntorangeVOLffle said:
Granted, but OU had been beaten by LSU the previous year (when they definitely didn't deserve to be there). Of course it's hindsight but their performance vs SC proved they shouldn't have been there once again as the game was over by midway into the second Q.

Honestly OU has been the most overrated team since 2001. Even more so than tOSU. I hope we can muster up enough depth to beat them next year.
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I agree 100%. 2003 should've never saw them there. AU didn't do themselves any favors afterwards squeaking by an average VT team, but I do believe they were more deserving than OU. Auburn, coupled with OU's embarrassment helped pave the way for the SEC today.
 
#55
#55
VolsSportsFan said:
I like the idea of the Conference Champions and 2 WC, though that will cause crying if someone gets upset. But I think it's fine because one of the complaints about a playoff was devaluing the regular season, and making it so you almost have to win your conference keeps that in tact.

As far as the mid-majors, the only way I could see them getting in is if it went past 8 teams, and incorporate some kind of play-in mini-playoff for them. It would add too many games, so they may have to stick with all of the mid-major conferences fighting for one spot. It's not that I wouldn't want them involved somehow but I can't think of a great way to do it without screwing over more deserving major conference teams. I think the NCAA Basketball Tournament let's way too many smaller conference teams in, so I don't want to go down that path.
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NCAA tourney is too big but those smaller teams make for some exciting games in the first two rounds. I Don't want to see CFB go past 4 post season games (incl conf CGs)
 
#56
#56
bowlinggreenvol said:
AQ would be 6 teams and 2 Wild Cards makes for 8. Couldn't have first round byes because that would leave 6 teams playing each other resulting in 3 winners. Now you have 5 teams remaining (3 winners + 2 byes).
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I know there are currently 6 AQs (or did the former Big East lose theirs?) but I think there should should only be four (SEC, BIG TEN, PAC 12, and ACC (BIG 12 just needs to dissolve into the others)).
 
#57
#57
My whole point in starting this thread is that the playoff dream is just not possible in D1. I think the conferences are too unorganized to provide a true champion and I also know that politics will screw any good idea up. We know we are going to a plus 1 next year. Condoleza Rice is heading a team of CFB experts who know who's deserving of being in the final four, so to speak. But, problem is, as an example, injuries are supposed to be factored in. WTF? When did injuries not become part of the character of the team? We lost peyton (granted not due to an injury) and we win the NC. This is another example of how people who want more and more playoffs so every team gets a shot will end up with the only 6 or 7 usual suspects. Me, I like the fact that a Boise or Northern Ill can get in there and screw things up and maybe sneak in and win a NC. Good for them. I don't put as much stock in a NC any more than I do the champion of the NCAA tournament. IT's just a tournament. I know who the best team is and I know which teams are really deserving even though they are 10-20 for the year. I don't think any playoff is needed and I don't think that if we did have an 8 or 16 team playoff, which is inevitable, given how politics work, will solve anything either. Well said by Gene Stallings a few years back. "We've won 12 games and we haven't really won anything." This is the travesty of where college football is headed.

FInally, look at the attendance of CBB and you'll see how a playoff decimates attendance. When you can hear the basketball bounce in a 25,000 seat arena, something's not right.

Don't get me wrong. I love the tournament, but I also think there ought to be about 16 teams instead of 65 or however many there are now. Same thing is going to happen to CFB especially when we have our beloved politicians involved. Makes good sense guys.

Get ready for 40,000 attendance for UT vs Austin Peay's of the world. It's coming.
 
#58
#58
byobbio said:
My whole point in starting this thread is that the playoff dream is just not possible in D1. I think the conferences are too unorganized to provide a true champion and I also know that politics will screw any good idea up. We know we are going to a plus 1 next year. Condoleza Rice is heading a team of CFB experts who know who's deserving of being in the final four, so to speak. But, problem is, as an example, injuries are supposed to be factored in. WTF? When did injuries not become part of the character of the team? We lost peyton (granted not due to an injury) and we win the NC. This is another example of how people who want more and more playoffs so every team gets a shot will end up with the only 6 or 7 usual suspects. Me, I like the fact that a Boise or Northern Ill can get in there and screw things up and maybe sneak in and win a NC. Good for them. I don't put as much stock in a NC any more than I do the champion of the NCAA tournament. IT's just a tournament. I know who the best team is and I know which teams are really deserving even though they are 10-20 for the year. I don't think any playoff is needed and I don't think that if we did have an 8 or 16 team playoff, which is inevitable, given how politics work, will solve anything either. Well said by Gene Stallings a few years back. "We've won 12 games and we haven't really won anything." This is the travesty of where college football is headed.

FInally, look at the attendance of CBB and you'll see how a playoff decimates attendance. When you can hear the basketball bounce in a 25,000 seat arena, something's not right.

Don't get me wrong. I love the tournament, but I also think there ought to be about 16 teams instead of 65 or however many there are now. Same thing is going to happen to CFB especially when we have our beloved politicians involved. Makes good sense guys.

Get ready for 40,000 attendance for UT vs Austin Peay's of the world. It's coming.
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If there's only 40,000 to show up for UT/Austin Peay, it would be because obviously UT is terrible; it will have nothing to do with a playoff.
 
#59
#59
The 4-team playoff is not going to be much better than the BCS. I'd prefer to see 8- or 16-team playoff.
 
#60
#60
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I think the only "fair" way to do it have for AQ conf champs (Make those CGs mean something) and 2 wild cards. Seed them with 1-2 getting a week off. Winners of 3v6 and 4v5 go onto play 1 and 2 them the NCG. That way you are only adding at most 3 games to the season of the lower seeds move on.

Some formula other than human opinion needs to decide the wild cards and seeding though. That is probably the least "fair" part. For instance, Bama just gets the benefit of the doubt as some people still think they are the better team than both AU and FSU.

Another part of the problem is there are just too many teams in FBS. Making it fair so the Boises get a chance along with the non power conference winners like Bama is going to be tough. As much as I hate expansion it may need to go to just Four 16 team Mega Confs and bump some teams back down to FCS. Of that would never happen because there is too much money involved.
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Close...Conference champs (11)+5 at large= 16 teams. And don't give me this "playoffs diminish the regular season" be. Take a look at some of the teams that didn't get into the fcs playoffs this year, which just expanded to 24 teams, amd you'll realize how ignorant that statement is.

I don't really care how you choose the 5 at large teams. Keep a bcs ranking and take the first 5 that aren't AQ's or have a committee select them. It doesn't matter as long as each team has a path to reach a title game by what they do on the field.
 
#61
#61
byobbio said:
Best formula for CFB. Playofff won't compare. It always works out. Two best teams are plying for championship.
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Wow, man, so by pure chance, there's a clear two teams this time.
BCS is still an asinine system. But, it was an improvement over what it replaced, which was no system.
 
#62
#62
8 teams. 5 auto bids. 6th bid reserved for the lower leagues. 2 at-larges. Would be great.
 
#63
#63
voltnh said:
Close...Conference champs (11)+5 at large= 16 teams. And don't give me this "playoffs diminish the regular season" be. Take a look at some of the teams that didn't get into the fcs playoffs this year, which just expanded to 24 teams, amd you'll realize how ignorant that statement is.

I don't really care how you choose the 5 at large teams. Keep a bcs ranking and take the first 5 that aren't AQ's or have a committee select them. It doesn't matter as long as each team has a path to reach a title game by what they do on the field.
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16 is too many. You would be playing games into March Madness.
 
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#65
#65
Aesius said:
I hate to say it, but I think Bama is still the best team in the country.

They would wax FSU and win a rematch against Auburn.
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They wouldn't "wax FSU" haha and auburn would beat them again.
 
#66
#66
UTK said:
They wouldn't "wax FSU" haha and auburn would beat them again.
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we just give the NC to Bama every year....I mean they own it and deserve to win every year...BS! Why do they move up to #3 when Ohio State lost one game and dropped to 7....why wouldn't AL play another one loss team like Michigan State in a bowl game? I am so glad AL is NOT in the NC game and other teams are enjoying the limelight...hope this is the beginning of a trend. I think FSU and Auburn would beat them now.
 
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#67
#67
burntorangeVOLffle said:
16 is too many. You would be playing games into March Madness.
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BS...A 16 team playoff would be quicker than the current bowl season. The FCS has been doing a playoff of at least 16 teams since 1986, and these schools do it with smaller athletic budgets than their fbs counterparts.
 
#68
#68
voltnh said:
BS...A 16 team playoff would be quicker than the current bowl season. The FCS has been doing a playoff of at least 16 teams since 1986, and these schools do it with smaller athletic budgets than their fbs counterparts.
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Brilliant. Let's follow the lead of the FBS. They have like 1,400 people in attendance. We want to follow that? They have smaller athletic budgets because they have no crowds at the games and no tv!

Look, I appreciate all the utopians wanting a playoff. On the surface, it looks like a great concept. But, to get something like this, you have to give somewhere else. My take is that the games that really mean something will come in post season. Why? You have teams playing in August in front of packed stadiums now. But, if we put so much more emphasis on the post season, those kinds of crowds will drop off considerably (See NCAA basketball). It just does not work.

I'm all for crowning an undisputed champion but not at the expense of what college football is today. I'm tired of all these politicians trying to make this a better sport. For me, it's as good as it needs to get.
 
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#69
#69
If you have to add Wild Card teams into a playoff that means that it is more important to fill a playoff slot with an even number of teams than to actually crown the best. If you cant win your division, if you cant win your conference then you have no business being considered in the NC picture.
 
#70
#70
GreveHaller said:
If you have to add Wild Card teams into a playoff that means that it is more important to fill a playoff slot with an even number of teams than to actually crown the best. If you cant win your division, if you cant win your conference then you have no business being considered in the NC picture.
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So, hypothetically, you would argue that Stanford is more deserving of a NC opportunity than Alabama?
 
#71
#71
byobbio said:
Brilliant. Let's follow the lead of the FBS. They have like 1,400 people in attendance. We want to follow that? They have smaller athletic budgets because they have no crowds at the games and no tv!

Look, I appreciate all the utopians wanting a playoff. On the surface, it looks like a great concept. But, to get something like this, you have to give somewhere else. My take is that the games that really mean something will come in post season. Why? You have teams playing in August in front of packed stadiums now. But, if we put so much more emphasis on the post season, those kinds of crowds will drop off considerably (See NCAA basketball). It just does not work.

I'm all for crowning an undisputed champion but not at the expense of what college football is today. I'm tired of all these politicians trying to make this a better sport. For me, it's as good as it needs to get.
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I don't think the addition of a larger playoff would hurt early-season attendance. I think that idea is completely wrong.

8 teams, with 5 auto bids, 1 bid reserved for the lower leagues, and 2 at-larges would be an incredible system. It would make every divisional race huge. A lot more games would have national title implications than currently do. Last Saturday would have been one of the biggest sports days of the year, as multiple tournament participants would have been determined.
 
#72
#72
Most of the top 10 has fairly easy SoS so yeah I am not into the BCS, and I doubt the playoff will help much.

FSU - 63
Auburn - 20
Alabama - 45
MSU - 56
Stanford - 4
Baylor - 60
Ohio St. - 57
Missouri - 31
South Carolina - 30
Oregon - 28

The key is too have an easy SoS but still come from a conference which will get votes.
 
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#73
#73
The 4 team playoff isn't going to fix anything. It will be better. The argument will be who deserves that 4th spot. They should just make it 8 and be done with it. Include the conference champs from the power conferences and a wild card or two. Still will be a argument who deserves the wild card spots. Still better than a bunch of coaches and sports writers deciding it though.
 
#74
#74
golfballs said:
I think if Bama played auburn 10 times this year they'd win 7/10 times. I'm not sure the best teams are playing.

I do think the most deserving teams are playing though
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Saban had his head in his ass that day; Bama is the better team IMO. But you're right about most deserving.
 
#75
#75
allvol123 said:
A team had to beat Duke and Clemson to make the title game.

Proof is not clear yet.
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I will agree with this and the OP at the same time. There is room for improvement with BCS formula but I don't think playoff is the answer. The BCS formula could be made near perfect by increasing the weight of the strength of schedule in the BCS formula. Until that happens, the same problem is going to exist and a playoff won't fix it. We will just be arguing over who goes to the playoff instead of the national championship.
 
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