Beckett could be the best postseason pitcher ever...

#26
#26
Vercingetorix said:
Off the top of my head? Whitey Ford. Sandy Koufax. Mariano Rivera. John Smoltz. Dave Stewart.

This is Beckett's 10th postseason game ever. Calling him the best ever is a bit of a reach.
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I might throw Jack Morris in there too.
 
#27
#27
why even try with you? I assumed it was common knowledge that relievers aren't based on W-L, but since you're throwing everything you have left, I'll let you have that. wow.. pathetic
 
#29
#29
yeah... basing a closer on his W-L record is pathetic. Huston Street has won a lot of ballgames only because he blew the lead and the A's covered for him in the bottom of the ninth
 
#30
#30
Mariano Rivera is a great pitcher. A first ballot Hall Of Famer. But he's not in line with the greatest ever in the postseaon. His two monumental choke jobs took that title away from him.
 
#31
#31
GAVol said:
Nothing funny about it. He shortened a lot of games.
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I don't think the Yankees ever had it better than in 1996, back when Rivera was still the setup guy. He's go for the 7th and 8th, and then Wetteland would close it out in the 9th. You really had to beat them in 6 innings that year, or you were done.
 
#32
#32
volfanbill said:
why even try with you? I assumed it was common knowledge that relievers aren't based on W-L, but since you're throwing everything you have left, I'll let you have that. wow.. pathetic
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Oh, I just thought it was funny that Rivera ranked in the top 10 in winning percentage. Any list with Sterling Hitchcock on it is obviously useless -- particularly to bitter Braves fans like me. I don't mind you calling me pathetic, since once you said you didn't want to evaluate pitchers "based on stats," it was obvious we weren't going to be able to have a conversation about it.
 
#34
#34
you're the one saying a 10-8 starting pitcher is the greatest ever. That would be like calling Jim Kelly the greatest qb ever because he led the Bills to 3 straight Super Bowls.
 
#35
#35
volfanbill said:
you're the one saying a 10-8 starting pitcher is the greatest ever. That would be like calling Jim Kelly the greatest qb ever because he led the Bills to 3 straight Super Bowls.
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If you will look back at my original post, I said "off the top of my head." There are probably guys I should have named instead. Regardless, the man started 22 games in the World Series, pitched 146 innings against the best team in the other league (no wild card patsies), went 7 innings a start, and complied a 2.76 ERA. I'd say that's an impressive record.
 
#36
#36
All of the postseason stats have been rendered pretty much meaningless since the Division Series started in '95.
 
#37
#37
GAVol said:
All of the postseason stats have been rendered pretty much meaningless since the Division Series started in '95.
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No question that it's hard to make comparisons. The old guys all get shortchanged on the counting stats, like wins and home runs, and they get shortchanged on the rate stats because the young guys get to feast on two rounds of inferior competition before they even get to the WS.

In your honor I have looked up Jack Morris, and I'm confident in saying that he's not one of the greatest postseason pitchers ever. 13 games, a 7-4 record, more hits than innings pitched and a 3.80 ERA in a time when league average ERAs were about 4.5. He just, uh, had that one game. That I don't remember.
 
#38
#38
The only reason I say Morris despite stats that look average are his performances in '84 and '91. I don't think it's possible for a starting pitcher to have a better series than he did in 1991 including that we don't remember.
 
#39
#39
Of course, if Lonnie Smith hadn't gotten decoyed out of his shorts, Morris might not have even gotten a win in that game that we don't remember and I wouldn't be making this argument.
 
#40
#40
I'd forgotten about his two complete games in 84. All right, I'll give you Jack Morris. Especially since he started 3 games in the 1991 WS.

That game was to this week's Alabama game as this week's Alabama game was to the 1985/6 Sugar Bowl.
 
#41
#41
That game was second only to the time I sat in the right field stands during the 6th inning of a World Series game and asked "Is is such a good idea to bring Mark Wohlers in right now?"
 
#42
#42
GAVol said:
That game was second only to the time I sat in the right field stands during the 6th inning of a World Series game and asked "Is is such a good idea to bring Mark Wohlers in right now?"
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While the 1996 game was awful because I was there to witness the carnage firsthand (with a miserable honking case of the flu, no less), I still think the 1991 game was worse because it was Game 7 and the Braves had the freaking World Series WON RIGHT THERE if Lonnie Smith hadn't been a bonehead. In the 1996 game, the Braves only would have been able to go up 3-1 with two back in NY, so as miserable as it was, it doesn't quite haunt me a decade later like the Lonnie Smith game. That series should have been OVER.

(Although Andruw was so close to hauling in Leyritz's homer. Six inches to a foot, about.)
 
#44
#44
Well, yeah. I'm 37, so I decided I was old awhile back. But let's say you spend 50 years of your life supporting maybe four sports teams. That's 200 sports seasons you'll follow -- unless you're a Yankees fan, how many championships are you likely to get? I've got two (UT 1998, Braves 1995) after spending roughly what I hope to be half my life following sports; I've got a friend from Cleveland who's pushing 50 and of course has zero. Of course every missed opportunity that was JUST SO FREAKING CLOSE is going to just eat at you. Well, me anyway.
 
#46
#46
Vercingetorix said:
If you will look back at my original post, I said "off the top of my head." There are probably guys I should have named instead. Regardless, the man started 22 games in the World Series, pitched 146 innings against the best team in the other league (no wild card patsies), went 7 innings a start, and complied a 2.76 ERA. I'd say that's an impressive record.
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Don't forget that perfect game.
 
#48
#48
Ah yes, but I was thinking of the 1960 WS when he had a couple of complete game shutouts. Unfortunately though, he did walk a couple of batters. What a hack.
 
#49
#49
Nice pitching line for that series: 2 G, 18 IP, 0 R, only 11 H and 2 BB. Against a team that led the NL in runs scored. Yeah, Ford was pretty mediocre in the postseason.
 
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