Bernie Sanders Thread

#952
#952
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
I appreciate it. It's hard to get anywhere when we veer off of polite conversation into name calling. You guys all have excellent points, and I respect your views as well. I think many of us are wanting similar outcomes, we just want to get there on different avenues, if that makes any sense.
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Indeed. I dont think the ends are ever that much different. The means or instruments in how we get there seem to be where the most difference is found.
 
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#954
#954
Sanders is my favorite/least disliked Democratic candidate for POTUS of my generation.

Although, admittedly, that is not saying much.
 
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#955
#955
PKT_VOL said:
Sanders is my favorite/least disliked Democratic candidate for POTUS of my generation.

Although, admittedly, that is not saying much.
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My sentiments as well. He's the best option of the Democratic candidates, and he isn't even a Democrat. If people would sit down and read his policies without going in with the mindset that he's a crazy socialist, they'd realize that they may agree with some of the things he stands for.

I'd take him over Hillary or O'Malley in a heart beat. Biden is just the Democratic version of G.W. Bush. Al Gore might jump in, and he'd probably do well against Hillary, but he focuses entirely too much on climate change.
 
#957
#957
The discussion in this thread over the past 100-ish posts has been incredible.

Glad I wasn't here to screw it up. :hi:
 
#958
#958
New CNN/ORC National Poll:

Clinton 48%
Sanders 27%

Last month:

Clinton 57%
Sanders 18%

Net Sanders gain in month: +18%

Clinton favorable 44/53
Sanders favorable 35/27
 
#961
#961
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
I was wondering where you were!
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I think you and trout surmised my thoughts 100x better than I could have.

The important part is that Bernie refers to himself as a democratic socialist - not a traditional "all or nothing" socialist. There's a healthy mix of both socialism and capitalism.
 
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#962
#962
Kingston Vol said:
I think you and trout surmised my thoughts 100x better than I could have.

The important part is that Bernie refers to himself as a democratic socialist - not a traditional "all or nothing" socialist. There's a healthy mix of both socialism and capitalism.
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I've asked you in this thread in the past to please explain to me what it is you want.

What do you want expanded under the "socialist" banner and why? What is it you specifically want that doesn't currently exist?
 
#963
#963
DC_Vol said:
I've asked you in this thread in the past to please explain to me what it is you want.

What do you want expanded under the "socialist" banner and why? What is it you specifically want that doesn't currently exist?
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I'm still hoping to get that list of countries free of socialism.
 
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#964
#964
Mtntrout said:
I'm still hoping to get that list of countries free of socialism.
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What does that have to do with what you want? There's no pure socialist, pure communist, pure capitalist system, etc. in operation today.

So let's just agree that there are no countries completely free of socialism. Now can you move on and answer my question?
 
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#965
#965
DC_Vol said:
I've asked you in this thread in the past to please explain to me what it is you want.

What do you want expanded under the "socialist" banner and why? What is it you specifically want that doesn't currently exist?
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I suppose healthcare for all is a very socialist idea that I support. Related, I also think some sort of sick leave and maternal/paternal leave should be mandatory.

Bernie has a $1 trillion infrastructure rebuilding and replacing jobs bill and and a $5.5 billion youth jobs bill that I support.

I generally support raising taxes on the very rich and think the only reason it hasn't been done is because politicians can't stiff their rich donors.

Helping Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000 is something I support.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.
 
#966
#966
DC_Vol said:
What does that have to do with what you want? There's no pure socialist, pure communist, pure capitalist system, etc. in operation today.

So let's just agree that there are no countries completely free of socialism. Now can you move on and answer my question?
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So what was with wanting a list of socialist countries that were successful, if you knew full well every western nation has elements of socialism? Were you just hoping no one really knew what the word meant, and only with how it is used as a boogeyman these days?


The one you asked Kingston Vol?

1. Universal healthcare
2. Restrengthen unions (right now you get fired for talking about unions, even though this is supposed to be illegal)
3. Return tax rates to at least what they were under Reagan
4. Infrastructure projects

Other things too, those are just the things that come to mind as items you would consider to be socialist.
 
#967
#967
Mtntrout said:
So what was with wanting a list of socialist countries that were successful, if you knew full well every western nation has elements of socialism? Were you just hoping no one really knew what the word meant, and only with how it is used as a boogeyman these days?
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What are you talking about? Have you been drinking or using drugs? I never asked you that. Weren't you the one calling me arrogant yesterday?

I cannot even have a rational discussion with you. You're either assigning positions to me that I never took or arguing with things I never said.

Additionally, even if I had said anything like that or directly asked you such a question (which I didn't), your reasoning is still flawed.

I'm more interested in learning about your motivations.
 
#968
#968
Mtntrout said:
So what was with wanting a list of socialist countries that were successful, if you knew full well every western nation has elements of socialism? Were you just hoping no one really knew what the word meant, and only with how it is used as a boogeyman these days?


The one you asked Kingston Vol?

1. Universal healthcare
2. Restrengthen unions (right now you get fired for talking about unions, even though this is supposed to be illegal)
3. Return tax rates to at least what they were under Reagan
4. Infrastructure projects

Other things too, those are just the things that come to mind as items you would consider to be socialist.
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I want to know why you think it's a good idea to jail all the wealthy people. What purpose do you think that would serve? Do we even have enough jail space?

I think it's sick that you believe that.
 
#969
#969
Kingston Vol said:
I think you and trout surmised my thoughts 100x better than I could have.

The important part is that Bernie refers to himself as a democratic socialist - not a traditional "all or nothing" socialist. There's a healthy mix of both socialism and capitalism.
Click to expand...

Exactly. A completely socialist economic structure (totalitarianism/communism) would be horrible, as would a completely capitalist economic structure (anarchy). There has to be, and there already is, a combination of both in the U.S.
 
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#970
#970
Mtntrout said:
So what was with wanting a list of socialist countries that were successful, if you knew full well every western nation has elements of socialism? Were you just hoping no one really knew what the word meant, and only with how it is used as a boogeyman these days?


The one you asked Kingston Vol?

1. Universal healthcare
2. Restrengthen unions (right now you get fired for talking about unions, even though this is supposed to be illegal)
3. Return tax rates to at least what they were under Reagan
4. Infrastructure projects

Other things too, those are just the things that come to mind as items you would consider to be socialist.
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Union members are being fired for talking about the union they joined? Or are you talking about non union members being fired for it?
 
#971
#971
BeecherVol said:
Union members are being fired for talking about the union they joined? Or are you talking about non union members being fired for it?
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At places like Walmart and Target, you can (and will) be terminated for even publicly talking about a union. They explicitly lay this out in the pre-training videos.
 
#972
#972
DC_Vol said:
I want to know why you think it's a good idea to jail all the wealthy people. What purpose do you think that would serve? Do we even have enough jail space?

I think it's sick that you believe that.
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You must be working on some sort of novel that is an antithesis of the Hunger Games. Keep up the creativity.
 
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#974
#974
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
Exactly. A completely socialist economic structure (totalitarianism/communism) would be horrible, as would a completely capitalist economic structure (anarchy). There has to be, and there already is, a combination of both in the U.S.
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socialism is completely separate from totalitarianism and communism, which are also two separate ideas. A completely capitalist structure would not necessarily be anarchy. The words get thrown around so much that we are losing the ability to distinguish between some of them.
 
#975
#975
I'd suggest people check out the book "Aftershock" by Robert Reich. It has a film companion called "Inequality For All"

Reich isn't Michael Moore, so don't walk into it thinking he's anything like that hack.
 
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