Best player ever to...........

#51
#51
hatvol96 said:
You know, you're exactly the type of poster that ruins this board. You've no more ever talked to an NBA GM than you have walked on the moon. Yet, you're going to tell me there's this long list of execs who have no use for a guy who is in the all time top 20 in assists. Stick to ripping Erik Ainge. It's the one thing you do well.
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Did I see you list that long line of GM's that have all of this respect for Strickland?
 
#52
#52
Rasputin_Vol said:
Did I see you list that long line of GM's?
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Pat Riley, RC Buford, Steve Patterson, Ernie Grunfeld, Kiki Vandeweghe, Rick Sund, Ed Tapscott, Chris Wallace, and Jerry West. I won't even bother loading the site with the players, broadcasters, and columnists who revere Sleepy Rod. Oh, I forgot Wally Walker, Don Nelson, Chris Mullin, and Bob Whitsitt.
 
#53
#53
Rasputin_Vol said:
A buzzer tying 2 pointer that pushed it overtime is your defense of Kobe for 29-86 shooting in the series? One shot? OK... :crazy:

The fact is, Kobe cost them more games in that series than he won them.
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yeah because a washed up gary payton, derrick fisher, devon george, and luke walton were just waiting to step up and become the final's MVP in 2004. With those future hall of famers surrounding him shaq clearly would have won 5 straight championships if it wasn't for kobe bryant. why oh why kobe didn't you let devon george shoot it 30 times! Did you not want to win?
 
#54
#54
hatvol96 said:
Pat Riley, RC Buford, Steve Patterson, Ernie Grunfeld, Kiki Vandeweghe, Rick Sund, Ed Tapscott, Chris Wallace, and Jerry West. I won't even bother loading the site with the players, broadcasters, and columnists who revere Sleepy Rod. Oh, I forgot Wally Walker, Don Nelson, Chris Mullin, and Bob Whitsitt.
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When was Grunfeld GM of the Knicks?

And of those you mentioned, how many actually were coaches/GM's on teams he played for?
 
#55
#55
droski said:
yeah because a washed up gary payton, derrick fisher, devon george, and luke walton were just waiting to step up and become the final's MVP in 2004. With those future hall of famers surrounding him shaq clearly would have won 5 straight championships if it wasn't for kobe bryant. why oh why kobe didn't you let devon george shoot it 30 times! Did you not want to win?
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Devon George couldn't have done any worse than 29-86. And nobody is saying he should have given the ball to luke walton or george, but if you have Shaq that is putting up decent numbers in the paint, why not feed him instead of chucking up wild, ill advised shots from 22 ft out?
 
#57
#57
Rasputin_Vol said:
When was Grunfeld GM of the Knicks?

And of those you mentioned, how many actually were coaches/GM's on teams he played for?
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He played for or with at least five of them. Three of the others spent the better part of a decade trying to acquire him.
 
#58
#58
hatvol96 said:
Grunfeld would have been the GM in New York when Checketts was the President. That was his job before he went to Milwaukee.
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Grunfeld was an asst. coach the year the Knicks traded Rod for an ancient/past his prime Mo Cheeks. Now when given the choice between the previous years rookie of the year (Strickland) and Mark Jackson, are you saying that Grunfeld wouldn't have had some say/influence in that decision? If he is so respected as a player, how could that trade be allowed to happen? I realize the Knicks are inept and have been for a while, but don't you find it quite odd to trade the previous rookie of the year for a washed up Mo Cheeks?
 
#59
#59
Or heck... at the very least, trade Mark Jackson for Mo Cheeks and have some kind of veteran presence to help guide the previous season's rookie of the year.
 
#60
#60
Rasputin_Vol said:
Grunfeld was an asst. coach the year the Knicks traded Rod for an ancient/past his prime Mo Cheeks. Now when given the choice between the previous years rookie of the year (Strickland) and Mark Jackson, are you saying that Grunfeld wouldn't have had some say/influence in that decision? If he is so respected as a player, how could that trade be allowed to happen? I realize the Knicks are inept and have been for a while, but don't you find it quite odd to trade the previous rookie of the year for a washed up Mo Cheeks?
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Given the crew that was running the Knicks at that time, it doesn't surprise me at all. Assistant coaches have slightly more personnel power in the NBA than members of the dance team.
 
#61
#61
Fine Vol said:
Go from high school to NBA- KJ

Walk on a NFL team?-?

Best college QB who went to the NFL and sucked-Grossman?

Best college B ball player who went to the NBA and sucked?
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back to the question

kobe hands down

marky mark wahlburg in invincible

ryan leaf although gino territa was horrible

christian laettner- is he really gay?
 
#62
#62
hatvol96 said:
Given the crew that was running the Knicks at that time, it doesn't surprise me at all. Assistant coaches have slightly more personnel power in the NBA than members of the dance team.
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The fact is, Rod had personal issues and conflicts where ever he went. That is part of the reason why he bounced around so much for most of his career. His brief stint in San Antonio is just indicative of what I'm talking about.

He wasted his talent and opportunity every chance he got.
 
#63
#63
Rasputin_Vol said:
Devon George couldn't have done any worse than 29-86. And nobody is saying he should have given the ball to luke walton or george, but if you have Shaq that is putting up decent numbers in the paint, why not feed him instead of chucking up wild, ill advised shots from 22 ft out?
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deavon george regurally did worse. his career field goal % is 39%. Imagine how bad those stats would be without kobe and shaq feeding him wide open looks for 5 seasons.

and once again, shaq was out of shape. he wasn't getting dominating post positions like he was in the past against the pistons.
 
#64
#64
Rasputin_Vol said:
The fact is, Rod had personal issues and conflicts where ever he went. That is part of the reason why he bounced around so much for most of his career. His brief stint in San Antonio is just indicative of what I'm talking about.

He wasted his talent and opportunity every chance he got.
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Yeah, wasted it to the point that he's among the all time leaders in assists and steals and will be in the Hall of Fame. That's just a total waste. Also, he had exactly zero problems with Pat Riley or Jeff Van Gundy.
 
#65
#65
droski said:
you'd be a ball hog too if your teamates were lamar odom and smush parker.
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Also rather odd that when Odom, Caron Butler, and Brian Grant were in Miami with a rookie named Wade, they make it to the conference semis, yet a year later with the great Kobe Bryant, they can't even make the playoffs.
 
#66
#66
Rasputin_Vol said:
Also rather odd that when Odom, Caron Butler, and Brian Grant were in Miami with a rookie named Wade, they make it to the conference semis, yet a year later with the great Kobe Bryant, they can't even make the playoffs.
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Might that have anything to do with the strength of the eastern conference vs. the western conference?
 
#68
#68
Rasputin_Vol said:
Also rather odd that when Odom, Caron Butler, and Brian Grant were in Miami with a rookie named Wade, they make it to the conference semis, yet a year later with the great Kobe Bryant, they can't even make the playoffs.
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odom was out for most of the year for the lakers. kobe was out for like 20 games. AND as stated previously the eastern conference was a complete and utter joke.
 
#69
#69
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, wasted it to the point that he's among the all time leaders in assists and steals and will be in the Hall of Fame. That's just a total waste. Also, he had exactly zero problems with Pat Riley or Jeff Van Gundy.
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We'll see how much pull/respect Rod has when it is his turn to come up for selection for the HOF. Being in the top 20 in one category, playing on a loaded Portland team with a player that was probably just as good (Terry Porter) during his prime, and no all star games or anything noteworthy in the playoffs doesn't sound much like someone that is worthy of first ballot consideration.

As a matter of fact, look at who is at #262, right below Vin Baker and Lamar Odom...

Hall of Fame Probability Leaders - Basketball-Reference.com
 
#70
#70
Jaytrain5 said:
Might that have anything to do with the strength of the eastern conference vs. the western conference?
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That laker team had no excuse for not at least making it as an 8th seed in the west with the players they had on that team.

No excuse for not making the playoffs.
 
#71
#71
talk up Shaq all you would like, but he can't be trusted late in games and he would not have any of those LA rings had Kobe not been the best crunch player in the league at the time.
 
#72
#72
BigPapaVol said:
talk up Shaq all you would like, but he can't be trusted late in games and he would not have any of those LA rings had Kobe not been the best crunch player in the league at the time.
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yeah we saw how good anfernee hardaway and kobe teams were after shaq left. shaq changes the whole game when hes not injured or fat of course.
 
#73
#73
GAVol said:
That is probably part of it. It just makes no sense to me how you can put a guy like KG ahead of all the points and NBA titles of Kobe Bryant . . . but I still say that the answer is Moses Malone.
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Kobe would never have titles if it wasn't for Shaq. Yes Kobe can score that's all he wants to do. KG on the other hand can score, rebound like a freak, and throw dimes. Moses was before my time. I'm just basing this on what I've seen. Kobe is a great talent don't get me wrong. I'd say he's the best scorer I've ever seen, but scoring doesn't make you the best. I rather have a guy that can do several things instead of a guy who just wants to score.
 
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