Best RB to ever play college football?

#51
#51
Jackson was obviously a greater athlete, but watching him at the time, playing for Auburn in the SEC, he wasn't any better than a lot of other great SEC backs. I'd probably take Darren McFadden the college RB over Bo Jackson the college RB, for example. Jackson was really really good, obviously, but somebody like that comes along in the SEC every five years or so. The only one that has ever stood head and shoulders above everybody was Herschel Walker.

The argument for Jackson as best ever is dependent on retroactively applying the whole mythos that developed around him as a pro athlete backwards to his college career. He wasn't all the way there yet at Auburn.
 
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#52
#52
mad4vols said:
Hey, I'm from Flint too and I love Barry but you got to give it up to Walker, there was no one better in NCAA football hands down.
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Yeah he was the best college backs. I should have been more specific. I think Barry and Brown are the best ever for what they did after college.
 
#54
#54
Vercingetorix said:
Jackson was obviously a greater athlete, but watching him at the time, playing for Auburn in the SEC, he wasn't any better than a lot of other great SEC backs. I'd probably take Darren McFadden the college RB over Bo Jackson the college RB, for example. Jackson was really really good, obviously, but somebody like that comes along in the SEC every five years or so. The only one that has ever stood head and shoulders above everybody was Herschel Walker.

The argument for Jackson as best ever is dependent on retroactively applying the whole mythos that developed around him as a pro athlete backwards to his college career. He wasn't all the way there yet at Auburn.
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Not true at all. The sec wasn't as strong in the early 80's. it started to get crazy parity wise and in recruiting mid 80's and has gotten more competitive ever since. Herschel running over 180 lb db's just doesn't impress me considering the vast amount of carries he had. Bo had far fewer carries and a much better ypc average. No doubt the greatest we have seen so far. A true freak. I saw them both play and we all knew way before his pro days he was a once in a lifetime player. Herschel had an unmatched work ethic tho.
 
#56
#56
Herschel>>>> Bo


No comparison.


Edit... I would put Bo Jackson and Eddie George pretty close as far as running back.
Bo is the better athlete.
 
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#58
#58
StoVol said:
Not true at all. The sec wasn't as strong in the early 80's. it started to get crazy parity wise and in recruiting mid 80's and has gotten more competitive ever since. Herschel running over 180 lb db's just doesn't impress me considering the vast amount of carries he had. Bo had far fewer carries and a much better ypc average. No doubt the greatest we have seen so far. A true freak. I saw them both play and we all knew way before his pro days he was a once in a lifetime player. Herschel had an unmatched work ethic tho.
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Bo had less carries because he wasn't anywhere near as durable as Herschel.
 
#59
#59
Absolutely correct. Bo was a "Ferrari" but was more subject to mechanical breakdowns. He missed six games in 1984 due to a separated shoulder and finished the season with only 475 yds ( Three Football Players Who Could Have Gone Straight to the Pros - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com). He gained 1213 yds. on only 158 carries in 1983. 1985 was the only season in which he even eclipsed 175 carries; he ran for 1,786 yds. on 278 carries as a senior (Bo Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

A defensible argument can be made that, purely in terms of onfield performance, Tony Dorsett was Herschel's closest competitor. Both had three 1,500 yd.-plus seasons and both won a national championship. Tony, of course, did not have Walker's power and he didn't face SEC defenses week in and week out.
 
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#60
#60
Volosaurus rex said:
Absolutely correct. Bo was a "Ferrari" but was more subject to mechanical breakdowns. He missed six games in 1984 due to a separated shoulder and finished the season with only 475 yds ( Three Football Players Who Could Have Gone Straight to the Pros - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com). He gained 1213 yds. on only 158 carries in 1983. 1985 was the only season in which he even eclipsed 175 carries; he ran for 1,786 yds. on 278 carries as a senior (Bo Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

A defensible argument can be made that, purely in terms of onfield performance, Tony Dorsett was Herschel's closest competitor. Both had three 1,500 yd.-plus seasons and both won a national championship. Tony, of course, did not have Walker's power and he didn't face SEC defenses week in and week out.
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I was 7 years old when Dorsett won a national title at Pitt. He was a glider with great speed.
 
#62
#62
Incidentally, here are the career numbers for most of the candidates cited thus far:

Herschel Walker (33 games) 994 carries - 5,259 yds. 159.4 ypg 49 tds.

Tony Dorsett (43 games) 1,074 carries - 6,082 yds. 141.4 ypg. 55 tds.

Bo Jackson (38 games) 650 carries - 4,303 yds. 113.2 ypg. 43 tds.

Barry Sanders 523 carries – 3556 yds. 48 tds.

Ricky Williams (46 games) - 1,011 carries - 6,279 yds. 136.5 ypg. 72 tds.

O.J. Simpson (19 games) 621 carries - 3,124 yds. 164.4 ypg. 33 tds. (played first two years as JUCO)

Notes:

Among career yardage leaders, Williams, Dorsett and Walker rank 2nd, 3rd, and 10th, respectively, although Walker achieved his total in only three years.

Among career yds. per game leaders, Simpson, Walker, Dorsett and Williams rank 2nd, 3rd, 9th and 14th, respectively (p. 20 of http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2012/fbs.pdf). Among the five players who averaged over 150 ypg. for their entire careers, only Simpson and Walker played in power conferences.

Of these candidates, only Walker and Dorsett achieved three 1,500-yd. seasons.

Incidentally, for what it is worth, Sanders, Walker and Dorsett were ranked 2nd, 3rd and 7th, respectively, in ESPN’s Top 25 Greatest College Football Players of All-Time (25 Greatest Players In College Football - College Football - ESPN). Jackson and Jim Brown were ranked 3rd and 1st, respectively, by SI.com as the Top College Athletes of All-Time ( SI.com - Photo Gallery - Top 15 Greatest College Athletes), honors which, of course, are not directly germane to the “Greatest Running Back in College Football History.”
 
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#63
#63
Volosaurus rex said:
Incidentally, here are the career numbers for most of the candidates cited thus far:

Herschel Walker (33 games) 994 carries - 5,259 yds. 159.4 ypg 49 tds., 5.2ypc

Tony Dorsett (43 games) 1,074 carries - 6,082 yds. 141.4 ypg. 55 tds., 5.6 ypc

Bo Jackson (38 games) 650 carries - 4,303 yds. 113.2 ypg. 43 tds., 6.6 ypc

Barry Sanders 523 carries – 3556 yds. 48 tds., 6.7 ypc

Ricky Williams (46 games) - 1,011 carries - 6,279 yds. 136.5 ypg. 72 tds., 6.2 ypc

O.J. Simpson (19 games) 621 carries - 3,124 yds. 164.4 ypg. 33 tds. (played first two years as JUCO), 5.0 ypc
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Just added yards per carry to these stats. Barry and Bo are in a league of their own with regard to production per touch.
 
#64
#64
StoVol said:
Not true at all. The sec wasn't as strong in the early 80's. it started to get crazy parity wise and in recruiting mid 80's and has gotten more competitive ever since. Herschel running over 180 lb db's just doesn't impress me considering the vast amount of carries he had. Bo had far fewer carries and a much better ypc average. No doubt the greatest we have seen so far. A true freak. I saw them both play and we all knew way before his pro days he was a once in a lifetime player. Herschel had an unmatched work ethic tho.
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You know that Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson's SEC careers overlapped, don't you? How can you seriously claim that Herschel was running against significantly inferior competition when you can watch them playing in the same game?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3nHuQRg3s[/youtube]
 
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#68
#68
Red Grange

No, wait... Billy Cannon.

Actually, it's a tie between Mike Alstott and Tim Tebow.
 
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#69
#69
'tis funny that you guys should mention Grange and Thorpe; they finished 1st and 6th, respectively, on ESPN's 25 Greatest Players in College Football History. See 25 Greatest Players In College Football - College Football - ESPN.

The "Galloping Ghost" had one of the most extraordinary 12-minute performances in the history of college football on October 18th, 1924, vs. Michigan. Grange "returned the opening kickoff for a 95-yard touchdown and scored three more touchdowns on runs of 67, 56 and 44 yards in the first twelve minutes. On his next carry, he ran 56 yards for yet another touchdown. He scored the three touchdowns in less than seven minutes against the powerful Michigan defense. Before the game was over, Grange ran back another kickoff for yet another touchdown. He scored five touchdowns in all. Illinois won the game by a lopsided score of 39 to 14.

The game inspired Grantland Rice to write the following poetic description:


A streak of fire, a breath of flame
Eluding all who reach and clutch;
A gray ghost thrown into the game
That rival hands may never touch;
A rubber bounding, blasting soul
Whose destination is the goal — Red Grange of Illinois!

In his 20-game college career, he ran for 3,362 yards, caught 14 passes for 253 yards and completed 40-of-82 passes for 575 yards. Of his 31 touchdowns, 16 were from at least 20 yards, with nine from more than 50 yards. He scored at least one touchdown in every game he played but one, a 1925 loss to Nebraska. He earned All-America recognition three consecutive years, and appeared on the October 5, 1925, cover of Time" (Red Grange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
 
#70
#70
The game that Red Grange and Jim Thorpe played would barely be recognized now as American football. It's dumb to include them in any kind of a list that also includes modern players. It's not the same sport. It's like picking the best basketball players in Kansas in 1895 and putting them on an all-time list with Jordan and Kareem.
 
#72
#72
Vercingetorix, I agree that comparing pre-World War I era college football with the game as it is now played is analogous to comparing a Model T Ford to a Ferrari. There is one measure of greatness, however, that has endured the test of time: It is not how such and such player would fare against today's competition but, rather, to what extent did he surpass the accomplishments of his peers. That is the only legitimate means of comparing the relative greatness of players who played in disparate eras.

With respect to Thorpe's greatness as a college football player, I will defer to the opinion of someone who actually played against him. A teammate of Neyland's, some fellow by the name of Dwight Eisenhower, made the following observation long after his 1912 Army team lost to Carlisle, 27-6: "Here and there, there are some people who are supremely endowed. My memory goes back to Jim Thorpe. He never practiced in his life, and he could do anything better than any other football player I ever saw" (CNN.com - Roller-coaster life of Indian icon, sports' first star - Jul 13, 2004).
 
#75
#75
Scotty's Flat Top said:
Ricky Williams also. He had double the carries and almost the same average.
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The observation on the carries is spot on, and thanks for calling it to my attention. Ricky just consistently churned out incredible production per touch over four years (5.9, 6.1, 6.8, and 6.0, respectively). A great counterfactual question must be asked:

If Ricky had not lost focus on football when he entered the NFL, and had performed to his speculated potential (as it was when he came out of college), would there even be a debate as to who was the best college back?

I'm inclined to think there would still be a debate, but I am not certain of that.
 
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