Bible Topic Thread (merged)

#1,826
#1,826
volmanic said:
When someone states that they do not believe in God because a good God would not allow evil, they make a fatal error in logic. First, the recognition of evil is the recognition that certain actions are "right" and certain actions are "wrong." But how do we determine what actions are morally right and morally wrong? We discern this on the basis of a moral law: a universal sense that certain states of affairs are right and others are wrong. Even most atheists will admit that certain actions are universally wrong and, conversely, universally right.

For example, no one could seriously argue with the statement that it is better to love a child than to torture it. The point is that there is an innate, universal sense of right and wrong within all of us. What is the basis of this moral sense? Some would argue that it is based on cultural customs or traditions. But can this be so?

The famous atheist Bertrand Russell once debated a Christian who asked him if he believed in right and wrong. Russell replied "of course." Then he asked him how he determined what is right and wrong. Russell replied that he determined right and wrong on the basis of his feelings. His opponent replied, "Well, in some cultures they feel it is okay to eat you, and in others they don't. Which do you prefer." The point is that social customs, attitudes, traditions or feelings cannot determine a universal sense of right and wrong.

A universal sense of moral right and wrong can only come from a source outside of ourselves: a transcendent source, a moral Lawgiver. So the recognition of moral law is by default the recognition of a moral Lawgiver. To argue that the existence of evil proves that there is no God is equivalent to stating that the existence of moral law proves that there is no Lawgiver! It's like declaring that the Chrysler automobile that I drive proves without a doubt that there is no Chrysler Motor Company!

Atheists often present the problem of evil to theists as if it is a fatal argument for the existence of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, it is an absolutely unsolvable problem for the atheist. How does the atheist explain evil-the sense of moral right and wrong-in the absence of a moral Lawgiver? They can't! If there is no moral Lawgiver, then there is no way to explain the sense of moral wrong and moral right we all possess. C.S. Lewis said that evil is God's megaphone to a non-believing world. Evil speaks of moral law. Moral law demands a moral Lawgiver, and it is He that we call God!
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If you knew the answer, why did you ask...j/k
Great post!
 
#1,827
#1,827
volmanic said:
When someone states that they do not believe in God because a good God would not allow evil, they make a fatal error in logic. ...
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at least give credit to the original author of your post :ermm:

(but if you are Dr Eastman then I apologize)
 
#1,830
#1,830
volmanic said:
I didnt put it on here to take credit. I didn't know that we had to show every place we got information. For those that want to know its here: :p

Why Does God Allow Evil?
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please. you could just as easily have quoted Dr E. the first time, rather than trying to pass it off as your own.

Just more ammo for guys like PJ to discredit you and your beliefs.
 
#1,831
#1,831
BigPapaVol said:
please. you could just as easily have quoted Dr E. the first time, rather than trying to pass it off as your own.

Just more ammo for guys like PJ to discredit you and your beliefs.
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Seriously? I'm not even going to comment on that. Lord have mercy. :ermm:
 
#1,833
#1,833
BigPapaVol said:
I would leave it alone as well if I were you. I know it's a message board, but at least give credit where it's due.
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No, I meant if me forgetting to place on a post who wrote it would cause my beliefs to be less credible is just plain stupid to even think.
 
#1,834
#1,834
volmanic said:
No, I meant if me forgetting to place on a post who wrote it would cause my beliefs to be less credible is just plain stupid to even think.
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I'm not buying that you forgot. I'm saying you tried to pass it off as your own and that smacks of dishonesty. That tends to undermine the rest of your holier than thou routine, ya think?
 
#1,835
#1,835
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not buying that you forgot. I'm saying you tried to pass it off as your own and that smacks of dishonesty. That tends to undermine the rest of your holier than thou routine, ya think?
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Your opinion. You can believe what you wish. I don't think your a perfect human. You ever forgot to do something?
 
#1,836
#1,836
volmanic said:
Your opinion. You can believe what you wish. I don't think your a perfect human. You ever forgot to do something?
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You are exactly correct. It is my opinion and one likely to be shared by those whose throats you're trying to cram your drivel down. That's all.

I haven't remotely claimed to be perfect and have forgotten many things. I have not however gotten on my soapbox about all things Christianity then plagiarized in the midst of the debate.
 
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#1,837
#1,837
BigPapaVol said:
You are exactly correct. It is my opinion and one likely to be shared by those whose throats your trying to cram your drivel down. That's all.

I haven't remotely claimed to be perfect and have forgotten many things. I have not however gotten on my soapbox about all things Christianity then plagiarized in the midst of the debate.
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:no: Wow :no:

Was my thread being graded or something? You serioulsy need to back off a little bit. Geee
 
#1,838
#1,838
volmanic said:
:no: Wow :no:

Was my thread being graded or something? You serioulsy need to back off a little bit. Geee
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You're apparently missing the entire point of the increased scrutiny that your holy approach brings. Makes hypocrisy a given.

You could back off just as easily as I, especially since you were the one doing the preaching. Maybe you could have "turned the other cheek."

I'm done with it, but hopefully you'll get the point some day.
 
#1,843
#1,843
emainvol said:
I will say one thing, every time something bad happens and someone says "this is Satan's work" I want to scream.
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In my view sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. There are many times that bad things happen for a reason, some good will come of it. I am not preaching to you e-main, just agreeing that too many times people lay things at the feet of God or the devil that don't belong.
 
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