Bible War!

#51
#51
utvolpj said:
I don't know...ever heard of gay marriage? Or maybe the anti-abortion people are doing it out of concern for the mother?
Click to expand...

It sounds like to me you just have a problem with Christianity in general. I'm not you, so I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get. The only topic that may include religion IMO is gay marriage, simply because many believe it's an institution from God. My view on abortion has nothing to do with my religion... that has nothing to do with me beliving that Jesus is the Son of God etc.
 
#52
#52
utvolpj said:
I don't know...ever heard of gay marriage? Or maybe the anti-abortion people are doing it out of concern for the mother?
Click to expand...

I find no problem whatsoever being against gay marriage or being against abortion and never bringing the Bible into the matter.
 
#54
#54
Oh, I thought this might be another thread about religion causing wars..
 
#55
#55
utvolpj said:
because of posts like this
Click to expand...

Our schools should not be teaching 6th graders to experiment sexually. And evolution being taught as fact is wrong in and of itself. Unless it can be proven as fact it cannot be fact. It can be taught as a theory, but even then you need to arm the kids with the other side of the debate or not teach it at all. What is wrong with my argument here pj?
 
#56
#56
allvol123 said:
I find no problem whatsoever being against gay marriage or being against abortion and never bringing the Bible into the matter.
Click to expand...

I agree totally, it seems to be that people throw religion into it when it's not warranted.

See what you did pj? You made me agree with allvol. :p
 
#59
#59
volsforever27 said:
It sounds like to me you just have a pronlem with Christianity in general. I'm not you, so I could be wrong, but that's the impression I ger. The only topic that may include religion IMO is gay amrriage, simply because many believe it's an institution from God. My view on abortion has nothing to do with my religion... that ahs nothing to do with me beliving that Jesus is the Son of God etc.
Click to expand...

I have no issue with Christianity as a whole but I do have a problem when people try and use it to interfere with the freedoms this country in founded on. It is no one's job to make the judgments they believe God is responsible for but many think it is. I feel if more religious people that are so concerned with everyone else would put those efforts into their own home then the country would be better off. I know I have a hard enough time taking care of me and my fiance and want no part in someone else's life choices.
 
#60
#60
utvolpj said:
I have no issue with Christianity as a whole but I do have a problem when people try and use it to interfere with the freedoms this country in founded on. It is no one's job to make the judgments they believe God is responsible for but many think it is. I feel if more religious people that are so concerned with everyone else would put those efforts into their own home then the country would be better off. I know I have a hard enough time taking care of me and my fiance and want no part in someone else's life choices.
Click to expand...

How are my views forcing religion down anyone's throat? If anything, aren't beliefs such as yours being forced down mine? I'm just saying I don't want to force my religionon anyone, but at the same time laws come from morality.
 
#61
#61
BigPapaVol said:
I do think gay marriage and race type issues are a difficult issue for a republic like ours, where majority rule inherently disadvantages the minority.
Click to expand...

It does pose an interesting question about where does popular opinion apply in law.
 
#62
#62
utvolpj said:
I have no issue with Christianity as a whole but I do have a problem when people try and use it to interfere with the freedoms this country in founded on. It is no one's job to make the judgments they believe God is responsible for but many think it is. I feel if more religious people that are so concerned with everyone else would put those efforts into their own home then the country would be better off. I know I have a hard enough time taking care of me and my fiance and want no part in someone else's life choices.
Click to expand...

That is not constrained to Christianity or religion.
 
#64
#64
KB5252 said:
Our schools should not be teaching 6th graders to experiment sexually. And evolution being taught as fact is wrong in and of itself. Unless it can be proven as fact it cannot be fact. It can be taught as a theory, but even then you need to arm the kids with the other side of the debate or not teach it at all. What is wrong with my argument here pj?
Click to expand...

I'm not one to stomp on people's beliefs and I hope you don't see this that way. There is much more evidence to suggest evolution that the "7 day" belief. I also believe that things like the "young earth" way of thinking should never be presented in any form in an accredited classroom (but some want it).

And teaching experimentation in 6th graders? I think many confuse education with telling them how to do it. I mean, who here didn't get more education thru middle school locker room talk than their parents? We are sexual beings and teaching kids that are of that age the facts of life is not dangerous, it's healthy. My mother is a 6th grade teacher and trust me they already know plenty.
 
#65
#65
utvolpj said:
I don't agree with every law but I vehemently disagree with laws passed because the bible said so. Where they come from is exactly the issue in question.
Click to expand...
actually, the laws are passed because the legislature said so, but much of the lobbying behind the efforts, in the cases to which you're referring, was driven by the because the Bible said so mindset.
 
#66
#66
KB5252 said:
What does it matter to you if he does or doesn't and how does that effect you. So turn the question around, do you believe he made it happen? If not then why? What evidence do you have that it did not? I can state simply that I have no evidence to support that it did but believe it anyway. And by the way the Bible stated there were these two cities that were since lost to history. It seems to me that the Bible was right about the cities existence so why shouldn't I believe the rest of the story?
Click to expand...

You are making implications into my post I didn't intend. I was only trying to distinguish his faith.

There is no way to prove whether or not GOD made the disasters happen.
 
#67
#67
volsforever27 said:
,,, but Christianity seems to get more blame than liberalism. I would say I'm not sure why, but I have a good idea.
Click to expand...


You are comparing apples and oranges. Christianity is a belief system, yes, but it is based on the deeply personal decision of faith. "Liberalism" is somewhat a belief system, I would agree, but it is not nearly as deep or sensitive in nature as a religion. At least not for most people.

When a liberal tries to persuade you that you are wrong on policy choices, that's one thing. It can get heated and personal. But telling someone their belief in the nature of their existence, their faith in God, the origin and fate of humanity, etc., is wrong, well, that's an entirely different level of disagreement.
 
#68
#68
utvolpj said:
I'm not one to stomp on people's beliefs and I hope you don't see this that way. There is much more evidence to suggest evolution that the "7 day" belief. I also believe that things like the "young earth" way of thinking should never be presented in any form in an accredited classroom (but some want it).

And teaching experimentation in 6th graders? I think many confuse education with telling them how to do it. I mean, who here didn't get more education thru middle school locker room talk than their parents? We are sexual beings and teaching kids that are of that age the facts of life is not dangerous, it's healthy. My mother is a 6th grade teacher and trust me they already know plenty.
Click to expand...


I have a 7 year old daughter, and you would be surprised about what 7 year old kids talkabout (not mine thank goodness). It is about the government's role, and their role is not to replace the parent. I know that parents don't always do what they should, but that doesn't mean the school, givt etc should take over. I'm sorry, but that's a little too much "for the greater good".
 
#69
#69
volsforever27 said:
It does pose an interesting question about where does popular opinion apply in law.
Click to expand...
we are a republic by design to specifically avoid mob rule, but it's not a perfect solution.

We would like for our legislators to use their discretion, but they are supposed to best represent the will of the people. I don't know that anyone elected could fit that bill and unfortunately, most of them are about the will of themselves and preservation of their positions.
 
#70
#70
allvol123 said:
That is not constrained to Christianity or religion.
Click to expand...

I could never disagree with that. It's the whole squeaky wheel thing

volsforever27 said:
How are my views forcing religion down anyone's throat? If anything, aren't beliefs such as yours being forced down mine? I'm just saying I don't want to force my religionon anyone, but at the same time laws come from morality.
Click to expand...

I force no beliefs down anyone's throat and I do believe that moral laws are fine as long as they are confined within the actual document that formed this nation. I just don't believe that anyone using the Bible as their justification has anyone's best interest in mind but their own. All I'm saying is I do not want to be forced to live my life by religious laws. Prove that it doesn't infringe on the rights of another and I am fine with it. May not like it but...
 
#71
#71
BigPapaVol said:
actually, the laws are passed because the legislature said so, but much of the lobbying behind the efforts, in the cases to which you're referring, was driven by the because the Bible said so mindset.
Click to expand...

Anyone behind any idea is driven by some sort of mindset. That does not make the idea in and of itself, not credible. To be against an idea solely because you don't like the source of the idea, in most cases, would be unreasonable.
 
#72
#72
lawgator1 said:
You are comparing apples and oranges. Christianity is a belief system, yes, but it is based on the deeply personal decision of faith. "Liberalism" is somewhat a belief system, I would agree, but it is not nearly as deep or sensitive in nature as a religion. At least not for most people.

When a liberal tries to persuade you that you are wrong on policy choices, that's one thing. It can get heated and personal. But telling someone their belief in the nature of their existence, their faith in God, the origin and fate of humanity, etc., is wrong, well, that's an entirely different level of disagreement.
Click to expand...

Wrong, liberalism is becoming a religion in and of itself... they focus as hard to take God out of everything as a Christian does to prove there is a God. It's not just policy choices, it's belief, values, science etc. that they try to "force".
 
#73
#73
utvolpj said:
I'm not one to stomp on people's beliefs and I hope you don't see this that way. There is much more evidence to suggest evolution that the "7 day" belief. I also believe that things like the "young earth" way of thinking should never be presented in any form in an accredited classroom (but some want it).

And teaching experimentation in 6th graders? I think many confuse education with telling them how to do it. I mean, who here didn't get more education thru middle school locker room talk than their parents? We are sexual beings and teaching kids that are of that age the facts of life is not dangerous, it's healthy. My mother is a 6th grade teacher and trust me they already know plenty.
Click to expand...

There are many ways to interpret the creation story for example days can also mean periods of time in the original text. If parents want the schools to teach their kids about sex fine. Some parents however would like to take this responsibility on themselves. Either that or have someone they trust talk to their kids about it and put it in some kind of context for the kids. Parents rights are being eroded. A child can go to the school clinic and in some states receive an abortion without parent notification, but these same schools will not dispense tylenol to these same kids. One is a medical procedure with risks and the other is an over the counter medicine available at a gas station. Does that make sense?
 
#74
#74
volsforever27 said:
Wrong, liberalism is becoming a religion in and of itself... they focus as hard to take God out of everything as a Christian does to prove there is a God. It's not just policy choices, it's belief, values, science etc. that they try to "force".
Click to expand...


We have reached an impasse on this particular aspect of the debate. We won't agree on this one thing.
 
#75
#75
allvol123 said:
Anyone behind any idea is driven by some sort of mindset. That does not make the idea in and of itself, not credible. To be against an idea solely because you don't like the source of the idea, in most cases, would be unreasonable.
Click to expand...
I didn't say the source isn't credible. I said no law has been passed because the Bible said so. I said the legislators have been influenced by those touting the "because the Bible said so" as the reason for their viewpoint.

I'm OK with the laws being passed for that reason, so long as it is in line with the majority view of the country (in most cases).
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top