Biden Not Adding Taxes To Middle Class

[Vol Main]

Well, so long as you're not insulting half the country, no harm I guess....

but it should stop.

Sure. I'll be happy to stop saying that, when it stops happening.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Just trying to get you out of mom’s basement.

Good try. I own my home and vote in person.

 

[Weezer]

I did not write a post and then end it with a personal insult. My view is that Ron DeSantis is a Bubba who appeals to the Bubba vote. That is up front. It might not be flattering but that is my position.

Nah. DeSantis is a politician. I actually trust bubbas and hillbillies.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Good try. I own my home and vote in person.

Do they still call you “lunch money”?

 

[Orangeslice13]

If we break it down to what the federal governments role per the constitution our federal tax system should be simple. The individual or corporation pays nothing to the federal government.

The states pay a per head fee to the feds for defense and the other services the fed is constitutionally to provide. And it gets its tariff money and extra. It’s up to the states to collect taxes.

I could live with that

 

[hog88]

You also don't have a huge federal government overhead devoted to "returning" money to the states if you do it that way.

That’s why my idea is so stupid, how could we ever survive without a bloated federal government and all it does for us?

 

[hUTch2002]

Yes, but only if costs decreased by larger % than price decrease.

If you have 100 in sales and your costs (before income tax) are $80, your margin is 20%. If your sales go down to $90, your costs must decrease to $71 to have better margin.

This wasn't fact pattern here isnt what happened since sales and operating profit both increased after Tax Reform.

I think that fact pattern shows there was obviously some trickle down favorbility but also shows little if any of the Trump Tax corporate tax cuts showed up in lower prices.

I’ll have to keep scrolling but I’m sure someone already beat me to this. You’re on the wrong side of the coin. It might not have impacted prices greatly but it had a larger impact on higher wages, bigger bonuses, etc. That was where more impact was had so even though prices didn’t go down much people had more money to spend. I’m sure corporations generally took their cut as well and didn’t pass it all down but this is still way better than what Biden is wanting to do.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Like I said, I'm thinking right now I'm at least 40 years your elder. Maybe more. My writing style is purposely adolescent so that you can comprehend. You only need to go back 4 years to understand the effects of trickle down. Raise business taxes and 2 things happen. Prices to the consumer go up and cash gets offshored or placed in some sort of reserve to reduce losses. ALL expenses in business get passed on to the consumer. To think otherwise is shortsighted and rather ignorant. Trump dropped corporate taxes and investment started, raises happened, incomes rose, and consumer spending increased. Your side found a way to frighten the sheep into economic disaster last year and I don't know when we will recover.

Yeah but this group of socialists are the smartest ever. They know how to do it right.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Nah. DeSantis is a politician. I actually trust bubbas and hillbillies.

And drunk sailors. They get a bad rap for some reason. The truth is that when a drunk sailor runs out of money, he stops spending. Unlike DC swamp rats.

 

[RikidyBones]

You need to lose the middle school writing style that ends with insult. Seriously, it makes you look bad. You also need to have a thorough look at U.S. economic history over the last hundred years. Saying that trickle down works is not nearly as wrong as saying African slavery works. Both work well for the owners, up to a point.

This is rich.

 

[82_VOL_83]

You are 180 degrees wrong, again, and still boring.

I guess being constantly reminded of a childish outlook on life is boring. Especially since you've heard it for 20 years.

And oh, I'm not wrong, maybe a little simplified for you to grasp, but not wrong. Generally when you are the only one in the room making silly remarks as if those who know better are interested, it's an indication that you don't have a grasp on how adult life really works. Look around you on this board, there are business owners, engineers, doctors and hard working people. A vast majority are telling you your outlook is flawed. We aren't all wrong.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I’ll have to keep scrolling but I’m sure someone already beat me to this. You’re on the wrong side of the coin. It might not have impacted prices greatly but it had a larger impact on higher wages, bigger bonuses, etc. That was where more impact was had so even though prices didn’t go down much people had more money to spend. I’m sure corporations generally took their cut as well and didn’t pass it all down but this is still way better than what Biden is wanting to do.

I think both sides main arguments are flawed here. Increases (or decreases) in corporate taxes have limited impact on prices customers pay. It's largely because a change in corporate rate impacts businesses differently. A tax increase has no impact on JCP but has a significant impact on TJ Maxx since TJ Maxx is highly profitable. If TJ Maxx tries to pass along a corporate tax increase to its customers, they would lose market share to JCP who does not have to care about corporate tax rate. A highway gas tax increase, if enacted, would be seen almost immediately since it impacts all companies the same and that would be passed along to customers.

If you look at the 10Ks largest publicly traded companies pre and post reform, this is what you'd see:

Gross Sales - This went up. Two takeaways: 1. Yeah, prices weren't cut and 2. More money in the market from the bonuses, stock market apprreciation, etc. (This right here contradicts both arguments you see in this thread)

Gross Margin Percentage - This stayed the same or slightly increased. If companies cut prices, this is really where you'd see it but that just didn't happen

Operating Expenses and Margin - Typically, these rose at the same rate as sales. In most periods of strong sales, this increases at a lower rate than sales and that helps improves operating margins more. Since these increased largely in line with sales, that does show that there was evidence of increased compensation/bonuses as well as increased investment since both of those expenses would show up here.

In laymen's terms, a review of those biggest 10Ks shows prices did not go down after the cuts; however, it does show there was some trickle down effect with the increased investment/wages. There was more money in the marketplace after the Trump cuts but no, there wasn't a decrease in prices.

I'm not poo-pooing the Trump tax cuts, I am pointing out that the talking points of both sides have major fallacies.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Like I said, I'm thinking right now I'm at least 40 years your elder. Maybe more. My writing style is purposely adolescent so that you can comprehend. You only need to go back 4 years to understand the effects of trickle down. Raise business taxes and 2 things happen. Prices to the consumer go up and cash gets offshored or placed in some sort of reserve to reduce losses. ALL expenses in business get passed on to the consumer. To think otherwise is shortsighted and rather ignorant. Trump dropped corporate taxes and investment started, raises happened, incomes rose, and consumer spending increased. Your side found a way to frighten the sheep into economic disaster last year and I don't know when we will recover.

Just a few comments:

1. The Trump tax reform actually eliminated much of the benefit from offshoring cash. (Funny how the left doesn't bring this up)
2. A large corporation won't get a tax deduction for "just creating some reserve." If a company says, hey let's create a $50 million legal reserve, they won't get to deduct it until economic performance occurs (i.e. pay it out).
3. Again, corporate income tax changes barely, if any, get passed onto a customer. I agree that payroll tax increases, gas tax, sales tax increases, etc. get passed on. If you go to the Best Buy in Texarkana, TX (no corporate state income tax) and Carbondale, IL (9.5% state income tax) to buy a TV, the sales price for the TV before sales tax is the same.
4. The underlined orange comment is supported by 10Ks of largest publicly traded corps

 

[Carl Pickens]

I did not write a post and then end it with a personal insult. My view is that Ron DeSantis is a Bubba who appeals to the Bubba vote. That is up front. It might not be flattering but that is my position.

This coming from a Biden voter is pretty comical..... because he’s a demented corpse who appeals to idiots and dead people

 

[Vol Main]

This coming from a Biden voter is pretty comical..... because he’s a dented corpse who appeals to idiots and dead people

Now Cholly, I've noticed that your posts occasionally seem ungenerous.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Now Cholly, I've noticed that your posts occasionally seem ungenerous.

But usually spot on

 

[hUTch2002]

I started this thread, so you do not get to change the topic and then tell me what it is. If you are having trouble focusing, I suggest returning to the original post and reading it again.

Wow, and I thought I had control issues! Lol

 

[hUTch2002]

lol Yeah, right.


If that is the issue in your thinking, then you do not know the issue and have nothing to offer this discussion.

You know that starting a thread doesn’t make you the arbiter of who can and can’t contribute, correct?

 

[hUTch2002]

I think both sides main arguments are flawed here. Increases (or decreases) in corporate taxes have limited impact on prices customers pay. It's largely because a change in corporate rate impacts businesses differently. A tax increase has no impact on JCP but has a significant impact on TJ Maxx since TJ Maxx is highly profitable. If TJ Maxx tries to pass along a corporate tax increase to its customers, they would lose market share to JCP who does not have to care about corporate tax rate. A highway gas tax increase, if enacted, would be seen almost immediately since it impacts all companies the same and that would be passed along to customers.

If you look at the 10Ks largest publicly traded companies pre and post reform, this is what you'd see:

Gross Sales - This went up. Two takeaways: 1. Yeah, prices weren't cut and 2. More money in the market from the bonuses, stock market apprreciation, etc. (This right here contradicts both arguments you see in this thread)

Gross Margin Percentage - This stayed the same or slightly increased. If companies cut prices, this is really where you'd see it but that just didn't happen

Operating Expenses and Margin - Typically, these rose at the same rate as sales. In most periods of strong sales, this increases at a lower rate than sales and that helps improves operating margins more. Since these increased largely in line with sales, that does show that there was evidence of increased compensation/bonuses as well as increased investment since both of those expenses would show up here.

In laymen's terms, a review of those biggest 10Ks shows prices did not go down after the cuts; however, it does show there was some trickle down effect with the increased investment/wages. There was more money in the marketplace after the Trump cuts but no, there wasn't a decrease in prices.

I'm not poo-pooing the Trump tax cuts, I am pointing out that the talking points of both sides have major fallacies.

I find it interesting that operating expenses were flat. Of course I’m just going by your words and we are keeping this super simple. But you’re right, if sales are up then your margin should increase at least a little if all else is the same because of more sales to spread over the same fixed costs. It would require more in-depth analysis to see why margin remained flat but I would say I do agree with your general point.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I find it interesting that operating expenses were flat. Of course I’m just going by your words and we are keeping this super simple. But you’re right, if sales are up then your margin should increase at least a little if all else is the same because of more sales to spread over the same fixed costs. It would require more in-depth analysis to see why margin remained flat but I would say I do agree with your general point.

The operating expenses (as a percentage) went up very similarly as sales. If sales increased 6%, operating expenses went up by similar percentage. That's the best evidence of the positive "trickle down impact" since two of the largest operating expenses (salaries and depreciation on capital investments) are where you'd see the positive trickle down impact.

I've openly stated I did not vote for Trump but I think his tax reform wasn't horrible legislation. It was sloppy in its construction, too partisan, and left too many loopholes/industry preferences. But, its hard to argue with the results.

 

[Vol Main]

I guess being constantly reminded of a childish outlook on life is boring. Especially since you've heard it for 20 years.

And oh, I'm not wrong, maybe a little simplified for you to grasp, but not wrong. Generally when you are the only one in the room making silly remarks as if those who know better are interested, it's an indication that you don't have a grasp on how adult life really works. Look around you on this board, there are business owners, engineers, doctors and hard working people. A vast majority are telling you your outlook is flawed. We aren't all wrong.

How I know they're not lousy commies, infiltrating and subverting America?

 

[Vol Main]

You know that starting a thread doesn’t make you the arbiter of who can and can’t contribute, correct?

Where did I say that starting a thread makes me the arbiter of who can and can’t contribute, besides nowhere?

 

[hUTch2002]

Where did I say that starting a thread makes me the arbiter of who can and can’t contribute, besides nowhere?

You told that poster they had nothing to offer regarding the discussion. Who are you to say so?

 

[Y9 Vol]

Where did I say that starting a thread makes me the arbiter of who can and can’t contribute, besides nowhere?

All through the thread.