Bigger bust? Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell?

#51
#51
I've never subscribed to "the best ever" or "the worst ever". No way to determine #1 in any category because the situations can't be repeated or manipulated. I think there is a premier athlete that is at the top and would still be given many different situations. I consider it more of a level than a spot.

That being said, Leaf and Junkmarcus are definitely two of the premier busts of all time!
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#52
#52
kptvol said:
Agreed. There was a pretty good feeling that Al Davis was more nuts than usual when he drafted a mediocre QB from LSU. Ryan Leaf was supposed to be on par with a guy that's ended up rewriting NFL record books. It's going to be a while before someone passes him up.
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While I agree with the points you made in utgibbs "dooley clear upgrade" thread, I disagree with Al Davis being nuts.

I don't think Al gives a flying flip about what is posted about him on a Vol board, but consider this. He's in his 80's and he's not the man he once was. Few people are when they are in their 80's. But he won 3 superbowls with essentially 3 different groups of players. He knew football then and he still knows football. I don't think his knowledge of today's football players is very good.

Russell was a colossal bust and Al drafted him, over Kiffin's objections. Al was wrong about Russell and right about Kiffin. He was right about Nnamdi Asomugha and wrong (so far) about McFadden. He was right about Gruden and wrong about Turner. Win some, lose some.

I'd say many owners of NFL teams would like to achieve Al's level of success.
 
#55
#55
MWR said:
While I agree with the points you made in utgibbs "dooley clear upgrade" thread, I disagree with Al Davis being nuts.

I don't think Al gives a flying flip about what is posted about him on a Vol board, but consider this. He's in his 80's and he's not the man he once was. Few people are when they are in their 80's. But he won 3 superbowls with essentially 3 different groups of players. He knew football then and he still knows football. I don't think his knowledge of today's football players is very good.

Russell was a colossal bust and Al drafted him, over Kiffin's objections. Al was wrong about Russell and right about Kiffin. He was right about Nnamdi Asomugha and wrong (so far) about McFadden. He was right about Gruden and wrong about Turner. Win some, lose some.

I'd say many owners of NFL teams would like to achieve Al's level of success.
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If you're crazy and you're winning, you're eccentric. If you're crazy and you're losing, you're just crazy. If you're crazy and you're losing and you're old, you're senile. I don't think anybody denies how great a football executive Al Davis used to be. It's just been a long time since the organization he runs has appeared to have anybody with a brain in charge of it.
 
#56
#56
Vercingetorix said:
If you're crazy and you're winning, you're eccentric. If you're crazy and you're losing, you're just crazy. If you're crazy and you're losing and you're old, you're senile. I don't think anybody denies how great a football executive Al Davis used to be. It's just been a long time since the organization he runs has appeared to have anybody with a brain in charge of it.
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Hard to argue with your post. The last 7 season's records supports your point.

However, the Raiders seem to be getting better. Which may not mean a lot, considering how bad they have been.
 
#57
#57
milohimself said:
I say Leaf by a hair, but I see eye to eye with a lot of Orange_Pearl's points. I think a better way to put it is Russell has put less effort into his game than possibly any other first round pick ever. He truly has not given a single bit of care to football since he got drafted, and Leaf can at least say more than that.
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I don't see why it really matters how hard someone tries, though. If Vince Young or someone doesn't try and is decent, and Leaf tries as hard as he can and completely sucks, Leaf is still much less worthy of a high draft pick. Especially if dude is a horrible teammate to boot.
 
#58
#58
Ryan Leaf for sure. He wasn't half the QB he was touted to be. Remember the 1st draft choice in 1998 was between Peyton and Ryan and the Colts chose Peyton-best choice they ever made. Peyton said that if they, the Colts didn't pick him, they'd regret it. The Chargers, who were next, I think, took Leaf-bad decision. BUSTED- BIG TIME. At least Russell may play somewhere. He may only last less than one season.
 
#63
#63
Russell may be able to redeem himself under a new system. Leaf came into a pretty good system and did nothing but screw up and whine, so he's definitely the bigger bust.

Heath Shuler, however, is a bigger bust than either Leaf or Russell.
 
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