Bill Nye is a godless liberal

#276
#276
Thrasher865 said:
No, not really. I see where you're going. But when the evidence guides you further and further from something, there's no reason to believe there's going to be an informational renaissance that leads you back to the original hypothesis.

Is there a possibility? Of course, however remote. Is that a logical reason to go ahead and accept it as the truth? Nothing could be further from reality.
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Not trolling this time Thrasher. This is what I truely believe. I do respect your right to believe differently.


1 Corinthians 1:19
19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

The context of 1 Corinthians 1:19 deals with comparing the wisdom of God with the wisdom of man. Paul writes that the wisdom of man is foolishness compared to the wisdom of God. It will be destroyed. In other words, the unbelievers who try and defy God or proclaim that God is not true or that the Bible is not true will all be proven false. This will either happen in this life or on the day of judgment.

I am not anti science, without science we would still be living in "the stone ages". With that said, I do believe 100% in my heart and mind there is a living God.

The obstacle I see between religion and evolution all goes back to the "origin of life" . As a Christian I believe God is the creator of life.

Many believe that thinking of a God as the creator is silly. I think believing that life came from nothing, that it just happened over time is silly. I cannot prove to you there is a Living God, you cannot prove to me that life just happened over time.

Those that want can flame away. Everyone has the right to believe what they want.
 
#277
#277
orangeslice13 said:
Reality is I was once a Science guy. About 13 years ago things changed and I now understand things I once scoffed and laughed at.
I can't explain the way my mind now puts things together so I will not try.
I also don't plan on arguing with the atheist as I was once one.
I will say you don't have to dump science to understand God.
Respect should be shown to both sides as both have intelligent people representatives.
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.
 
#278
#278
Gramps said:
Not trolling this time Thrasher. This is what I truely believe. I do respect your right to believe differently.


1 Corinthians 1:19
19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

The context of 1 Corinthians 1:19 deals with comparing the wisdom of God with the wisdom of man. Paul writes that the wisdom of man is foolishness compared to the wisdom of God. It will be destroyed. In other words, the unbelievers who try and defy God or proclaim that God is not true or that the Bible is not true will all be proven false. This will either happen in this life or on the day of judgment.
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That's fine, but I don't accept scripture as evidence of anything.

When you get a chain letter meme that says you have to forward it to a certain number of people, or you will be stricken with disease, do you forward it? Just curious.

The Bible cannot be self-proving.

And it's not about proof of one or the other, it's about which one makes the most sense based on the evidence you have. True, there is no direct empirical evidence of abiogenesis, but there is implicit evidence that matter can come from nothing without the need for a god.


It's easier for me to believe at least parts of these theories that have been crafted over decades and centuries to carefully explain every step between the big bang and the evolution of life, based in part on observable experimental results, than it is for me to believe a catch all "theory" that was created millennia ago.
 
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#279
#279
Thrasher865 said:
That's fine, but I don't accept scripture as evidence of anything.

When you get a chain letter meme that says you have to forward it to a certain number of people, or you will be stricken with disease, do you forward it? Just curious.

No sir, I do not. I place them in file 13


The Bible cannot be self-proving.

And it's not about proof of one or the other, it's about which one makes the most sense based on the evidence you have. True, there is no direct empirical evidence of abiogenesis, but there is implicit evidence that matter can come from nothing without the need for a god.

It is about beliefs. My belief is this world is put together too perfect for it to just happen.

It's easier for me to believe at least parts of these theories that have been crafted over decades and centuries to carefully explain every step between the big bang and the evolution of life, based in part on observable experimental results, than it is for me to believe a catch all "theory" that was created millennia ago.
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As I said earlier, I respect you right to believe whatever you want to. This is a topic we will have to agree to disagree on.
 
#280
#280
Well if it's simply about "beliefs" or "faith" then there is no point to having a discussion. The difference is, to a "non-believer," if you were to actually present him with evidence that suggests a strong possibility his beliefs are wrong, he will change his beliefs.

I guess there is room for discussion in science, but there is not in religion.
 
#281
#281
volinbham said:
Doesn't this beg the question about what the next (and the next and the next, etc.) pinnacle of human understanding will be and why it's almost silly to say God doesn't exist/didn't exist because his/its existence doesn't fit the constraints of science (the current pinnacle of human understanding)?
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We have the same rational as we did years ago. The only thing that has changed is technology. I don't think we are inherently "smarter" than what we were a thousand years ago.

Moving into the future, logic and rational are going to remain relatively unchanged. Technological innovations will continue. I don't see how future human understanding could possibly reverse the general scientific opinion on the existence of the Judo-Christian God.

However, from a pantheistic point of view, we will continue to find out God's essence through science. Hence this post:

MG1968 said:
"God is in the details."
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#282
#282
orangeslice13 said:
Reality is I was once a Science guy. About 13 years ago things changed and I now understand things I once scoffed and laughed at.
I can't explain the way my mind now puts things together so I will not try.
I also don't plan on arguing with the atheist as I was once one.
I will say you don't have to dump science to understand God.
Respect should be shown to both sides as both have intelligent people representatives.
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Personal revelation or turning to faith during a time of crisis is an intensely personal phenomenon. That is fine. Spirituality, whatever it may be, ought to be personal not public, communal, or universal.

I dunno how anybody can "understand God' if it exists as a separate entity from reality. I feel it is impossible to know anything about metaphysical claims or entities. We can certainly hope that certain things are true about the metaphysical world, but I don't know how it would ever be possible to gain an understanding of the metaphysical world.
 
#284
#284
PKT_VOL said:
Personal revelation or turning to faith during a time of crisis is an intensely personal phenomenon. That is fine. Spirituality, whatever it may be, ought to be personal not public, communal, or universal.

I dunno how anybody can "understand God' if it exists as a separate entity from reality. I feel it is impossible to know anything about metaphysical claims or entities. We can certainly hope that certain things are true about the metaphysical world, but I don't know how it would ever be possible to gain an understanding of the metaphysical world.
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I will answer tomorrow when I have time to give the answer in detail
 
#288
#288
PKT_VOL said:
Personal revelation or turning to faith during a time of crisis is an intensely personal phenomenon. That is fine. Spirituality, whatever it may be, ought to be personal not public, communal, or universal.

I dunno how anybody can "understand God' if it exists as a separate entity from reality. I feel it is impossible to know anything about metaphysical claims or entities. We can certainly hope that certain things are true about the metaphysical world, but I don't know how it would ever be possible to gain an understanding of the metaphysical world.
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If you want greater details than this you have my email but hear we go.
I really don't know if I can explain it properly. Before I understood grace and redemption I could read something and it registered in my mind one way. Now I can read things and I draw a different conclusion.
why? All I can tell you is I changed. So much so that people would ask what had happened to me.
The thing I find most interesting is how an issue made since to me one way before and the opposite is true now.
It was my experience that if you ask God honestly to Reveal himself to you in His way He will.
Take that challenge seriously. Don't call on God unless you're ready to deal with what he brings you.
 
#289
#289
For all the believers on the board...what, if any, evidence would it take to convince you that God doesn't exist?

I suspect how you answer this would say a lot about why you believe what you do.
 
#290
#290
rjd970 said:
For all the believers on the board...what, if any, evidence would it take to convince you that God doesn't exist?

I suspect how you answer this would say a lot about why you believe what you do.
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Really?
I was once convinced there was no God. Now I'm sure there is one. Would bet my life on it.
TIFWIW
 
#292
#292
rjd970 said:
Ok.

So what piece of evidence would it take to convince you that you are currently mistaken?
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Isn't that the ultimate question? It's called "faith" for a reason. I don't think we'll find an answer, at least during our lifetimes. That's a damn near impossible question to answer.
 
#293
#293
rjd970 said:
Ok.

So what piece of evidence would it take to convince you that you are currently mistaken?
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Maybe if god were to walk into your living room and say "Here I am. Just like you believed. But as of two minutes from now I will not exist". And, true to his word, he disappeared in two minutes.

Would that do it?
 
#294
#294
Danl said:
Maybe if god were to walk into your living room and say "Here I am. Just like you believed. But as of two minutes from now I will not exist". And, true to his word, he disappeared in two minutes.

Would that do it?
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That is the evidence it would take? Seriously?

So what your saying is it would take him proving his existence to disprove it.
 
#295
#295
Rockytop1018 said:
Isn't that the ultimate question? It's called "faith" for a reason. I don't think we'll find an answer, at least during our lifetimes. That's a damn near impossible question to answer.
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At least your honest in basically saying its hard to conceive of anything, if not flat out impossible to change your mind.

This is precisely the reason why this business of it takes just as much faith to believe in science, or science is just another religion is nonsense. As better evidence is produced, scientific positions will change accordingly. Does the big bang take "faith"? Sure, but such faith is based in evidence, and when more reasonable evidence comes forth, the big bang theory will happily change or be dropped altogether.
 
#296
#296
rjd970 said:
That is the evidence it would take? Seriously?

So what your saying is it would take him proving his existence to disprove it.
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Not to me. Notice I said "your living room" not "my living room".

I believe that there exist a great many people, some on this board, that can not/will not be persuaded by any evidence that their god does not exist. One possible exception might be the paradoxical BS scenario that I posited.
 
#297
#297
rjd970 said:
Ok.

So what piece of evidence would it take to convince you that you are currently mistaken?
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I have no interest in convincing you there is a God, and none in the debate. It's clear for you and you seem to know why. I say good for you.

To answer your question there's no evidence at this point to change my mind.
 
#298
#298
orangeslice13 said:
It was my experience that if you ask God honestly to Reveal himself to you in His way He will.
Take that challenge seriously. Don't call on God unless you're ready to deal with what he brings you.
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Been there. Done that. You think growing up in a Christian home that I never had any religious crises? Never once did I find any reason to believe in a personal god. Eventually, I gave up and let the rational side of my brain take over.

I'm not saying that I believe there is without a doubt no intelligent creator. I don't think there is, but I don't discredit the possibility.

Like I said, I still favor the idea that there is no god, period. But, if there is a god, and I'm going to assign an arbitrary <0.01% probability, I do not believe he interacts with us on an individual basis.
 
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#299
#299
Thrasher865 said:
Been there. Done that. You think growing up in a Christian home that I never had any religious crises? Never once did I find any reason to believe in a personal god. Eventually, I gave up and let the rational side of my brain take over.

I'm not saying that I believe there is without a doubt no intelligent creator. I don't think there is, but I don't discredit the possibility.

Like I said, I still favor the idea that there is no god, period. But, if there is a god, and I'm going to assign an arbitrary <0.01% probability, I do not believe he interacts with us on an individual basis.
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Thrash, is there a question for me here?
I think I've been clear over time that it's up to each person to decide for themselves. And respect should be given to each other in this discussion.
I think it's sad that both sides talks to the other like they are stupid because they draw different conclusions.
 
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