Bill Nye is a godless liberal

#326
#326
I believe I have seen my dog show me empathy. I believe that is evidence of this mythical "conscience" you speak of.

I don't know if that was a typo of PKT's, or if he misunderstood you. I believe he meant to type conscience, instead of speaking of consciousness.

How do you know you have free will?

Have you ever given your dog a command that he knows, but instead he chooses not to obey? Is this not evidence of free will?
 
#327
#327
I think the "conscience" you're speaking of simply is an instinct that is evolved by social species. Anything that travels in packs, like dogs, or primates (and humans), will evolve empathy, because as a member of the pack, his individual survival chances are increased by doing what is best for the survival of the group.

Conscience is completely separate from free will. You can have a conscience without free will, and you can have free will without a conscience.
 
#329
#329
Thrasher865 said:
I believe I have seen my dog show me empathy. I believe that is evidence of this mythical "conscience" you speak of.

I don't know if that was a typo of PKT's, or if he misunderstood you. I believe he meant to type conscience, instead of speaking of consciousness.

How do you know you have free will?

Have you ever given your dog a command that he knows, but instead he chooses not to obey? Is this not evidence of free will?
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No, lack of training. Animals cannot differentiate between right and wrong.

My dogs have shown me what I intemperate as caring and compassion but I am also their sole sorce of food.
 
#330
#330
hog88 said:
No, lack of training. Animals cannot differentiate between right and wrong.

My dogs have shown me what I intemperate as caring and compassion but I am also their sole sorce of food.
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Have you ever seen dogs showing compassion for other animals? Dogs caring for kittens? Apes caring for baby animals of another species? Is this not empathy?


As for lack of training... No. Lack of obedience, maybe. But once you train a dog to sit, he knows that he is supposed to sit when you give him the command. When he doesn't sit, it's because he chooses not to.
 
#331
#331
Thasher - here is our big difference. Unlike you I have no intention of trying to convert you, really could care less what you believe, I have merely stated my beliefs and tried to defend them (sorry). You on the otherhand appear he!! bent on converting the believers.
 
#333
#333
hog88 said:
Thasher - here is our big difference. Unlike you I have no intention of trying to convert you, really could care less what you believe, I have merely stated my beliefs and tried to defend them (sorry). You on the otherhand appear he!! bent on converting the believers.
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Seriously? How have I done anything differently than you? I've presented my points and asked you questions about your beliefs of free will.

You couldn't come up with an adequate response, so you put out this silly response? It's a discussion board. If you don't want to discuss your opinions, don't post them.

I assure you, I don't care one way or another what you believe, and I'm certainly not "hell bent" on changing your opinion. BTW, you can say hell. It's not a curse word.
 
#335
#335
orangeslice13 said:
Boom.
This is why I love you.
For me it wasn't personal crises that got me, it was arrogance. I asked God to reveal himself to me in his way. (Kinda like a challenge) He did. After several repeats it became obvious who I was dealing with. Now it's a matter of do I accept or reject God. The choice is mine.
I'm kinda like doubting Thomas in that my faith did not come without seeing.
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Your welcome buddy. :hi:

I just wish I have revelation asap if he exists.
 
#336
#336
Thrasher865 said:
Seriously? How have I done anything differently than you? I've presented my points and asked you questions about your beliefs of free will.

You couldn't come up with an adequate response, so you put out this silly response? It's a discussion board. If you don't want to discuss your opinions, don't post them.

I assure you, I don't care one way or another what you believe, and I'm certainly not "hell bent" on changing your opinion. BTW, you can say hell. It's not a curse word.
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Not a silly response at all, I have come up with many adequate responses, no scientific data but adequate enough for me and what I believe in.

I spent almost half my life on a dairy farm with a multitude of animals, cows, horses, cats, dogs, chickens, hogs ext. sorry no monkeys.. None could ever demonstrate free will.

An animal has instinct; eat, sleep, survive, breed, fight, flee ext. The biggest evidence in free will is in breeding. Humans know it is wrong to force sex on another, animals don't.
 
#337
#337
hog88 said:
Who has said they do, I've never seen an animal with one.
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How would you know?

hog88 said:
Yes
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How are you so sure?

hog88 said:
Yes, some can be trained to follow commands, our wishes but otherwise no.
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How would you know whether they have free will?

If your dog decides to sleep at place X on the floor instead of place Y on the floor, would that not cause for concern as far as free will is concerned (assuming I understand what your definition of free will entails)?
 
#338
#338
PKT_VOL said:
Did God create them out of thin air as well or did he just create Abiogenesis and let things go where they may?
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I believe God created all life, different times, different reasons. Heck he could have moved life forms from one planet to another.

I also believe he has pretty much left us to make our own way.
 
#339
#339
hog88 said:
Not a silly response at all, I have come up with many adequate responses, no scientific data but adequate enough for me and what I believe in.

I spent almost half my life on a dairy farm with a multitude of animals, cows, horses, cats, dogs, chickens, hogs ext. sorry no monkeys.. None could ever demonstrate free will.

An animal has instinct; eat, sleep, survive, breed, fight, flee ext. The biggest evidence in free will is in breeding. Humans know it is wrong to force sex on another, animals don't.
Click to expand...

You're mixing up empathy and free will, just as I stated in my original response to you when you attacked me for it.
 
#340
#340
hog88 said:
I believe God created all life, different times, different reasons. Heck he could have moved life forms from one planet to another.

I also believe he has pretty much left us to make our own way.
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Ah, the kid with an ant farm take.
 
#343
#343
Thrasher865 said:
Would it be too much to ask you to reveal what those personal experiences were? Understandable if you don't want to share.
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I started to just send you an email but everyone thinks I'm nutz already so here we go.

A friend of mine challenged me to ask God to reveal himself to me in His way. so I did and nothing happened. a week or so later the same friend asked what had happened I said nothing.

On the way home while driving Reds car I said "hello God are you there?' I Can't explain the next event other than I knew to slow down the same way I know my name is Mark. There was no voice and it wasn't a thought that said slow down. anyway I said is that you God? and did not slow down. at this time the rear tire blew on casandra smith road in the s turns. I hit a delta 88 head on and walked out unhurt.

some time passed (a couple of weeks) and I wrote it off as my mind playing tricks on me. Again while driving I said "was that you God?" Again that same knowledge came to me. Slow down. I did not. Then the Thought came I'm here. I hit the breaks, to late. I was knocked off the road by a Van pulling out of the Golden Gallon(now kangaroo) on big ridge. The first tree I hit is level with the road but the ridge drops off so fast the damage is 10 feet in the air. The car rolled, the roof pulled back, and the engine came out of the car. I was unhurt. I learned 2 things that day. 1) don't question God while driving. 2) if you're upside down in a car, don't undo the seat belt without bracing yourself.

Still unconvinced a third "thing" happened I don't care to discuss in this forum.

Convinced beyond any doubt and to the point I would bet my life on it I decided to search for God.
Yda Yda Yda found Christianity Yda Yda Yda Here we are now.

5 times in my life God has spoken to me (sort of). last time over 10yrs ago. I wish I could explain it better. I do get that inner feeling of right and wrong but it's not the same thing.


The most interesting thing is the way I understand things. it's just different now. I'm glad I came to it the way I did. I understand Both sides in a way very few people can. I feel it's up to each person to find his own way but just as important to respect those whose see things differently.


Not sure what any of this has to do with Godless Liberals so I blame Thrasher. He asked the question.
Honorable mention to PKT (my alter)
 
#345
#345
If I may step in to this conversation.

The following are three things that one cannot logically prove:
1. The existence/denial of God
2. The infinite/finite matter of the Universe.
3. Determinism/Free Will

If you believe in God, you probably just see it as self-evident. That is fine. If you believe in God, you can make all types of speculations about the nature of the universe that do not have to coincide with scientific discovery/theorems. God, being supernatural, would have the power to create as he pleased and place whatever "misleading" evidence he wanted. However, you must understand that you are operating outside of science; you are operating in the metaphysical, the supernatural, not the physical, the natural. Thus, objections to theories of natural selection, the big bang, etc. are not scientific objections; they are metaphysical objections.

This is fine, but you must know that for those who do not view the existence of God as self-evident, no argument will convince them that God exists. Therefore, no argument will convince them of the truth of creationism (now referred to as "intelligent design"). Any movement to teach intelligent design is a movement to teach religion, not science. The realm for teaching religion is church/mosque/synagogue, not publicly funded schools.
 
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#346
#346
Burhead said:
How do you reconcile that with your faith? Would they be entitled to be "saved" or is God's mercy only for people upon Earth?
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What faith?? My faith in a higher power? My faith that Jesus was real, son of god or not, don't know, guess I will find out one day.

I will say again, I believe in god but not the literal bible.

Why couldn't they be saved? It's no different than a person that has never been exposed to Christianity here on earth. Is a child born in the jungle, never to hear of Jesus dommed to damnation because they never accepted him as their savior? I hope not.
 
#347
#347
therealUT said:
If I may step in to this conversation.

The following are three things that one cannot logically prove:
1. The existence/denial of God
2. The infinite/finite matter of the Universe.
3. Determinism/Free Will

If you believe in God, you probably just see it as self-evident. That is fine. If you believe in God, you can make all types of speculations about the nature of the universe that do not have to coincide with scientific discovery/theorems. God, being supernatural, would have the power to create as he pleased and place whatever "misleading" evidence he wanted. However, you must understand that you are operating outside of science; you are operating in the metaphysical, the supernatural, not the physical, the natural. Thus, objections to theories of natural selection, the big bang, etc. are not scientific objections; they are metaphysical objections.

This is fine, but you must know that for those who do not view the existence of God as self-evident, no argument will convince them that God exists. Therefore, no argument will convince them of the truth of creationism (now referred to as "intelligent design"). Any movement to teach intelligent design is a movement to teach religion, not science. The realm for teaching religion is church/mosque/synagogue, not publicly funded schools.
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+1,000,000

That is all.
 
#348
#348
Hey, just wanted to check in and find out if any of you mental midgets came to terms with the fact that God is a farce.

No? Oh, alright, continue!
 
#349
#349
orangesparkles said:
Hey, just wanted to check in and find out if any of you mental midgets came to terms with the fact that God is a farce.

No? Oh, alright, continue!
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Hey Sparkly, why the hate? I don't hate you for being gay. I've been very respectful in my posting. Not sure what you hope to accomplish with a drive by insult but maybe you should visit the endzone.
 
#350
#350
Slice my experiences with God are very similar and the path I tread was as far from the righteous way as possible. I too have seen the world with 2 entirely different sets of eyes. I fully understand what you say about thinking differently. I've heard it described as God changing your "want to" or simply changing the desires of your heart. When a person begins to free themself from the lusts of this world and truly achieve "death to self" the Lord manifests himself in an unmistakeable way. I believe it is different for every person. I also believe the only thing capable of coming between our maker and any man is himself. I still struggle daily to "give Him the keys" and let Him drive my life. It is so ingrained in me to try and fix everything myself...always to my detriment. I would love to spend some time with Christian monks who spend all day everyday in prayer and meditation. I believe their power must be tremendous thru Him. I have seen them on teelevision go out in the snow barely clothed and raise their body temperature several degrees thru prayer when they should have been getting frostbite and freezing to death. I believe this is only the tip of the iceberg and that He can and does manifest himself in the bodies and minds of those who diligently seek constant communion with Him. When the veil of pride and lust is removed from a mans conscious mind I. Believe many things are revealed to him. I hope to get there before He returns. God bless you Slice and I appreciate your kindness as always.
 
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