Bill Nye is a godless liberal

#201
#201
TNGlen said:
Everyone does realize that under sharia law, we would all be hunted down and executed for even having this discussion?
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What is wrong with Sharia Law if both parties enter into an agreement which states that their difference will be settled by such laws?
 
#202
#202
Marcus, can you at least appreciate the irony of saying that we can't prove evolution or abiogenesis, while touting a theory of which the only supporting argument is "faith?"
 
#204
#204
marcusluvsvols said:
No the observed odds of that are exactly zero. Life has never at any point been created in a lab despite countless tries involving every type of energy added...electricity, radiation etc. Never. Never will. Only God can give life. Who created mass? Space? Energy? Good luck with that. This argument is endless but the core question is whether you believe eveything came from something (creator) or everything came from nothing ( ?)
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There was a thread on this that was pretty good.
I may bump it to see if anyone has new info.
 
#205
#205
Thrasher865 said:
Marcus, can you at least appreciate the irony of saying that we can't prove evolution or abiogenesis, while touting a theory of which the only supporting argument is "faith?"
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I do see the irony. I just resent the fact that abiogenesis is force fed children in public schools while the growing sentiment among liberals is that creation has no place in schools at all. Since there is no verifiable physical evidence that either has ever occurred neither "theory" should be given priority or taught as fact. I went to public school and know what I was taught. Creationists were, and are; scoffed at. Its foolish and the ramifications are serious. Why not present both theories equally and let the children "think critically". I make a great deal of sacrifices so that my kids attend Christian school and won't be misled. Many are not so fortunate.
 
#206
#206
I won't accuse you of misleading your kids, because I know that you would take great offense to that, and rightfully so.

One of the two is a theory. The other isn't even a theory. This is how non-Christians feel. I can see where your frustration would come from if I believed the same things you do, but I don't.

I am not an athiest, but I am definitely not a Christian.
 
#207
#207
Thrasher865 said:
I won't accuse you of misleading your kids, because I know that you would take great offense to that, and rightfully so.

One of the two is a theory. The other isn't even a theory. This is how non-Christians feel. I can see where your frustration would come from if I believed the same things you do, but I don't.

I am not an athiest, but I am definitely not a Christian.
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You do believe in the existence of a supreme being or beings ?
 
#208
#208
Thrasher865 said:
I won't accuse you of misleading your kids, because I know that you would take great offense to that, and rightfully so.

One of the two is a theory. The other isn't even a theory. This is how non-Christians feel. I can see where your frustration would come from if I believed the same things you do, but I don't.

I am not an athiest, but I am definitely not a Christian.
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I would say they're both theories however one is scientific and one is religious. Huge difference
 
#209
#209
marcusluvsvols said:
I do see the irony. I just resent the fact that abiogenesis is force fed children in public schools while the growing sentiment among liberals is that creation has no place in schools at all. Since there is no verifiable physical evidence that either has ever occurred neither "theory" should be given priority or taught as fact. I went to public school and know what I was taught. Creationists were, and are; scoffed at. Its foolish and the ramifications are serious. Why not present both theories equally and let the children "think critically". I make a great deal of sacrifices so that my kids attend Christian school and won't be misled. Many are not so fortunate.
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If this were the case, you must realize it would have to be a more universal creation theory. You can't just stick the Jewish/Christian rendition in there and call it fair.

As long as evolution and the big bang are presented as theories (which they are), there's no problem. It's a more widely accepted belief and it leaves room for kids to make their own decisions. Hell, 80% of the country is Christian... what on earth do you have to complain about?
 
#211
#211
utvolpj said:
I would say they're both theories however one is scientific and one is religious. Huge difference
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Okay. Well I was using the definition of "scientific theory." I hadn't considered any other application of the word, but good point.
 
#212
#212
marcusluvsvols said:
I do see the irony. I just resent the fact that abiogenesis is force fed children in public schools while the growing sentiment among liberals is that creation has no place in schools at all. Since there is no verifiable physical evidence that either has ever occurred neither "theory" should be given priority or taught as fact. I went to public school and know what I was taught. Creationists were, and are; scoffed at. Its foolish and the ramifications are serious. Why not present both theories equally and let the children "think critically". I make a great deal of sacrifices so that my kids attend Christian school and won't be misled. Many are not so fortunate.
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I have no problem with creationism being taught in schools. However, it absolutely has no place in a science class. The abiogenesis theory is basically taught like every other scientific theory. "There are presently unanswere questions, but this is what the evidence points too". There are parts of gravitational theory that are unanswered, and require "faith"? Why don't you have issues with how it is presented?

I think your views are founded on a fundamental lack of what the science is really saying. I get you said you did good in school, understand science, etc. But it simply doesn't show when you start talking specifics. That's fine, I don't understand a lot either. But you can't tout your knowledge on these matters and then say what you are saying and expect to be taken seriously.

You believe there is a creator, and your faith is important to you. Nobody has an issue with that. Leave the science alone though. Learn what the science is actually saying, understand it, then believe what you want when you get home. But there is no agenda being pushed. It is what it is.
 
#214
#214
marcusluvsvols said:
I do see the irony. I just resent the fact that abiogenesis is force fed children in public schools while the growing sentiment among liberals is that creation has no place in schools at all. Since there is no verifiable physical evidence that either has ever occurred neither "theory" should be given priority or taught as fact. I went to public school and know what I was taught. Creationists were, and are; scoffed at. Its foolish and the ramifications are serious. Why not present both theories equally and let the children "think critically". I make a great deal of sacrifices so that my kids attend Christian school and won't be misled. Many are not so fortunate.
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From my post earlier:

PKT_VOL said:
A religion, eh? Do you have a clue what the word "religion" entails? Traditional religion is metaphysics. You cannot dispute metaphysics because it is not testable. It is not even observable or even experience related. One can make whatever metaphysical claim he wants and does not have to worry about the ramifications because it is not verifiable. Thus, it is no wonder there is a plethora of diverse metaphysical claims out there.

Why would you want to teach "impressionable" children that metaphysical claims are true? Only those which can be scientifically tested ought to be allowed in our schools.

Given that between the two of us, there is only one guy that has taken an upper level evolution class and majored in BCMC, I can assure you that scientific schooling is centered around only those claims which are verifiable. You are taught from a very early age that a "theory" is not fact but rather a testable, falsifiable hypothesis which has withstood the rigorous testing which hoped to falsify said theory. Such is the foundation for the philosophy of science.

I would much rather teach testable and falsifiable hypotheses than unverifiable metaphysical claims to impressionable children.
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#221
#221
marcusluvsvols said:
I do see the irony. I just resent the fact that abiogenesis is force fed children in public schools while the growing sentiment among liberals is that creation has no place in schools at all. Since there is no verifiable physical evidence that either has ever occurred neither "theory" should be given priority or taught as fact. I went to public school and know what I was taught. Creationists were, and are; scoffed at. Its foolish and the ramifications are serious. Why not present both theories equally and let the children "think critically". I make a great deal of sacrifices so that my kids attend Christian school and won't be misled. Many are not so fortunate.
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Science teaches critical thinking a lot better than religious dogma does.
 
#223
#223
Given the current state of our public educational system I think we should actually teach kids to read and allow them to draw their own conclusions. I'm afraid it is too late for that.
 
#224
#224
Lexvol said:
Given the current state of our public educational system I think we should actually teach kids to read and allow them to draw their own conclusions. I'm afraid it is too late for that.
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Agreed. However, science belongs in a science class.
 
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