Black Coaches (split)

It's not a fact. It's an opinion. You don even know what a fact is so we can stop right there.
It is a fact. We have implemented affirmative action which specifically gave blacks unequal advantage in hiring and promotion. We have given blacks scholarships exclusive to them. Social welfare programs have disproportionately targeted black families and communities. "Enterprise zones" have specifically attempted to generate business and economic growth in predominantly black communities. There are business grants and low interest loans that specifically target minorities and particularly blacks. Increasing black home ownership is a federal initiative that goes all the way back to Reagan.

Those are official things. Unofficially, companies spend considerable energy trying to find and hire black professionals and particularly in entry level managerial roles. This isn't some secret effort.... I see it in HR news and training briefs I get. The door stands wide, WIDE open. A black person has to do their part. You cannot hire wholly unqualified people or people who don't apply. You cannot promote people who are not competitive.

I WANT to see everyone successful including black people or any other skin tone. I love people. It breaks my heart to see anyone buy into the victim mentality and torpedo their own chances for success. I'm not unique among managers and corporate leaders. I have direct insight into this at both large and medium size companies as well as through thousands of extended relationships with managers and leaders in other companies. There may be rare exceptions but black people are not failing to achieve career success because white leaders and managers are not willing and even anxious to help them do so.

Statistically, police officers are MORE wary of using force with black suspects because they understand the potential repercussions. That was the conclusion of a peer reviewed study last summer/fall.

We're in the middle of Black History Month specifically designed to elevate the contributions of black people to American history.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Again, name one other country in all of history that did even close to this much to help a minority. I have watched this unfold over my life. I have seen many great people take advantage of those opportunities and succeed. Unfortunately there is a common idea that things just "happen" for white people that make life and success easy for them. That's the whole premise of "white privilege". The problem is that it simply isn't true.
 
It is a fact. We have implemented affirmative action which specifically gave blacks unequal advantage in hiring and promotion. We have given blacks scholarships exclusive to them. Social welfare programs have disproportionately targeted black families and communities. "Enterprise zones" have specifically attempted to generate business and economic growth in predominantly black communities. There are business grants and low interest loans that specifically target minorities and particularly blacks. Increasing black home ownership is a federal initiative that goes all the way back to Reagan.

Those are official things. Unofficially, companies spend considerable energy trying to find and hire black professionals and particularly in entry level managerial roles. This isn't some secret effort.... I see it in HR news and training briefs I get. The door stands wide, WIDE open. A black person has to do their part. You cannot hire wholly unqualified people or people who don't apply. You cannot promote people who are not competitive.

I WANT to see everyone successful including black people or any other skin tone. I'm not unique among managers and corporate leaders. I have direct insight into this at both large and medium size companies as well as through thousands of extended relationships with managers and leaders in other companies. There may be rare exception but black people are not failing to achieve career success because white leaders and managers are not willing and even anxious to help them do so.

Statistically, police officers are MORE wary of using force with black suspects because they understand the potential repercussions. That was the conclusion of a peer reviewed study last summer/fall.

We're in the middle of Black History Month specifically designed to elevate the contributions of black people to American history.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Again, name one other country in all of history that did even close to this much to help a minority. I have watched this unfold over my life. I have seen many great people take advantage of those opportunities and succeed. Unfortunately there is a common idea that things just "happen" for white people that make life and success easy for them. That's the whole premise of "white privilege". The problem is that it simply isn't true.

It's not a fact. It's your judgment of the situation based on certain facts. Stew on this basic concept for the rest of the day, please.
 
It's not a fact. It's your judgment of the situation based on certain facts. Stew on this basic concept for the rest of the day, please.
No. I listed reasons it IS a fact. I am ready and willing to have you disprove my claim. I have made the claim. I have substantiated it with objective facts... and the fact that the intent was specifically to pull black people up in American society. The lesson of history btw is that securing equality of opportunity without all of those crutches would have resulted in greater success for black people. Less welfare dependence. Less crime. Less illegitimacy. It is the very "victimology" coupled to liberal solutions that you think we need more of... that has caused the crisis we have.

You can continue to try to evade and handwave. But it won't help you or anyone else to deny what is so obvious and in front of your face. Blaming someone else for your failures is much easier than looking in the mirror. That is one of the "cultural" advantages for traditional homes in America over non-traditional homes. By and large kids raised by a mom and dad are not taught that the world is always fair or that they can excuse themselves when they think things are unfair. "Conservatively" reared kids are not taught that it is someone else's fault when they fail... or more importantly fail to get up and keep trying.

The problem is that 70% of black kids are born illegitimate. An equal or perhaps higher % do not have a stable home with a dependable, engaged father and mother. That situation impacts white kids every bit as much as black kids. White kids are just MUCH more likely to have a traditional, stable home.

It isn't color... it is culture.
 
No. I listed reasons it IS a fact. I am ready and willing to have you disprove my claim. I have made the claim. I have substantiated it with objective facts... and the fact that the intent was specifically to pull black people up in American society. The lesson of history btw is that securing equality of opportunity without all of those crutches would have resulted in greater success for black people. Less welfare dependence. Less crime. Less illegitimacy. It is the very "victimology" coupled to liberal solutions that you think we need more of... that has caused the crisis we have.

You can continue to try to evade and handwave. But it won't help you or anyone else to deny what is so obvious and in front of your face. Blaming someone else for your failures is much easier than looking in the mirror. That is one of the "cultural" advantages for traditional homes in America over non-traditional homes. By and large kids raised by a mom and dad are not taught that the world is always fair or that they can excuse themselves when they think things are unfair. "Conservatively" reared kids are not taught that it is someone else's fault when they fail... or more importantly fail to get up and keep trying.

The problem is that 70% of black kids are born illegitimate. An equal or perhaps higher % do not have a stable home with a dependable, engaged father and mother. That situation impacts white kids every bit as much as black kids. White kids are just MUCH more likely to have a traditional, stable home.

It isn't color... it is culture.

Go live as a white person just about anywhere in South America and then tell me white Americans do more for minorities than any majority population in the world.
 
This is completely and unreservedly stupid. No group has ever gone so far to open doors as white Americans have for black Americans? First of all, even if that were true and not completely condescending, who closed those doors in the first place?
That's a major part of the point. Americans and particularly white Americans recognize those "sins" and have in fact done MORE than any society in history to make atonement and elevate the formerly oppressed minority. If you think it is "condescending" to try to make right a wrong done to someone else.... then no one can help you until your recover from being brainwashed with the victim mentality.

This is the sort of tripe people write when they benefit from a system and try to formulate some cockney justifications for keeping it the same, yet the moment something you perceive it isn't fair to you (as in black people getting a perceived leg up) the "life isn't fair so deal with it" mantra goes up in smoke.
This is the kind of sophistry leftists engage in when they are trying to place blame illegitimately on those who have succeeded because they made better decisions and adhered to more profitable values/ethics.

I get it, though, you want to believe in this system because you genuinely believe in it and have bought into its equitable access line. All I see, though, are people waxing nonsense about things they know absolutely nothing about and pretending they have it figured out for people they haven't the faintest idea as to how the world works for them, a complete inability to view the world outside of their own perspective.
No. What you "see" is only what your narrative allows you to see. You don't see unfortunately the Herman Cains of the world who in fact faced REAL racism but through determination and strong values rose to great success. He's not the "exception" among those who work hard, stay out of trouble, and adhere to strong values.

Yes, I know I will get the brigade after me for these realities, a large reason being there is a false perception of this being a personal accusation of racism when it's far more about something systematic. The fact certain people don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does the success of some in a group mean the this has become a non factor. Your Nigerian example isn't nearly as good an example as you think, to demonstrate but one thing. These are often people who are often well off in their own societies, allowing them to come to America, and, more importantly, have not experienced the generational issues of black people who have lived here as well a host of other reasons as to why the example is poor. Plus, the issue isn't there is no possibility of success, but greater barriers. Removing the barriers is the objective, not telling people tough ****.
That's not particularly true. It is true even of Nigerians and others who come to the US as taxi drivers or factory workers. Their children succeed at higher levels.

It isn't systemic. If it is then there will be NO problem getting near universal support to tear down those barriers. But black teens bullying smart black teens because they're being "too white" when they make good grades, speak well, or avoid trouble... isn't because of a "system" set up to advantage white people. A 70% illegitimacy rate is evidence of moral cancer in a particular subgroup and a lack of the values required to take responsibility for your own actions... and is not a result of "systemic" racism.

Sorry, you're wrong. You don't know or believe you are wrong, but you are, as are many who have posted here on the topic. And, I will be considered arrogant, an elitist know it all liberal whatever, but all I did to get to this point for myself was stop telling people what they should think and do about themselves and listen to them, which led me to realize I often didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I was doing and advocating the same type of self-serving argument you're giving here.
Sorry... but no. This doesn't get better until people adopt better morals, values, and ethics... live them... and take responsibility for themselves. The doors are standing absolutely WIDE open. That's simply a fact. White people including almost all "conservatives" WANT to see black people successful. They WANT to help them achieve career success. But it isn't something someone hands to you. They can only provide the opportunity.

We just recognize that what you and other liberals are saying and trying to do... is the exact opposite of what will help race relations and specifically black people.

And, this is the last time I post in this thread because I can only bang my head against the wall so many times before just realizing most have no interest in considering the possibility systemic racism might actually be a thing, bigger than they realize. But, it's not happening to you, so it doesn't exist and those who claim it does are the real problem or hate America or I don't know, whatever the particular aspersion of the day is. Good luck.
I have considered it. I have looked for tangible proof. I have asked for proof it actually exists. I have read people claiming it exists looking for actual evidence. All you see is sophistry and a few anecdotes. You sometimes see an abuse of statistics like the "evidence" behind the idea that there is an "epidemic" of police killing innocent black kids because they're black.

I suggest that rather than rationalizing these crutches... you think in terms of what will actually resolve the problems in the black community. It can only and MUST start with rebuilding the traditional family... and about the only way that can happen is to allow school vouchers so that the influence of the church can be restored in broken black communities.

Your complaining and wishes to tear successful people down just because they're white.... will never help a single black person.
 
Go live as a white person just about anywhere in South America and then tell me white Americans do more for minorities than any majority population in the world.

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Go live as a white person just about anywhere in South America and then tell me white Americans do more for minorities than any majority population in the world.

Lol. So whitey gets a free ride in Brazil, Colombia, Peru, (Lol) Venezuela, etc? Not sure what your obsession with every s**thole country south of our border is. If it’s so great go live there and tell them to quit illegally invading the US.
 
Go live as a white person just about anywhere in South America and then tell me white Americans do more for minorities than any majority population in the world.
LOL.... you don't know a lot about South America, do you? For starters, whites who move there aren't disadvantaged and were never oppressed by those majorities. Those majorities do pretty much nothing to "help" those minorities.

Some areas of South America are very Caucasian. Many are mulatto.

Oh... btw... the one Latin American country that most emulated the US especially in economic freedom... is Chile. They have a standard of living close to ours while much of the rest of Latin America has employed liberal ideals like yours... and wallow in various degrees of poverty or economic malaise. The best example of course is Venezuela. But they're not alone.

Uruguay is a "stable" country. I know people who lived there for a long while. They have EXACTLY the kind of government control that Dems are trying to implement over the US economy and socialist institutions (free college for those favored, free health care such as it is, et al).... along with the corruption that comes with it. They are stagnant and people have come to accept their low standard of living... and the corruption... and that their leaders are in charge and have no intentions of giving them more freedom.
 
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LOL.... you don't know a lot about South America, do you? For starters, whites who move there aren't disadvantaged and were never oppressed by those majorities. Those majorities do pretty much nothing to "help" those minorities.

Some areas of South America are very Caucasian. Many are mulatto.

Oh... btw... the one Latin American country that most emulated the US especially in economic freedom... is Chile. They have a standard of living close to ours while much of the rest of Latin America has employed liberal ideals like yours... and wallow in various degrees of poverty or economic malaise. The best example of course is Venezuela. But they're not alone.

Uruguay is a "stable" country. I know people who lived there for a long while. They have EXACTLY the kind of government control that Dems are trying to implement over the US economy.... along with the corruption that comes with it. They are stagnant and people have come to accept their low standard of living... and the corruption... and that their leaders are in charge and have no intentions of giving them more freedom.

Exactly! ****ing exactly!
 
LOL.... you don't know a lot about South America, do you? For starters, whites who move there aren't disadvantaged and were never oppressed by those majorities. Those majorities do pretty much nothing to "help" those minorities.

Some areas of South America are very Caucasian. Many are mulatto.

Oh... btw... the one Latin American country that most emulated the US especially in economic freedom... is Chile. They have a standard of living close to ours while much of the rest of Latin America has employed liberal ideals like yours... and wallow in various degrees of poverty or economic malaise. The best example of course is Venezuela. But they're not alone.

Uruguay is a "stable" country. I know people who lived there for a long while. They have EXACTLY the kind of government control that Dems are trying to implement over the US economy and socialist institutions (free college for those favored, free health care such as it is, et al).... along with the corruption that comes with it. They are stagnant and people have come to accept their low standard of living... and the corruption... and that their leaders are in charge and have no intentions of giving them more freedom.

Not completely off topic but I’ve read articles of some blacks relocating back to Africa, Ghana in this instance, and they’re being welcomed with open arms. It’s ironically one of the places where blacks were sold into slavery by their own people. Guess there’s no benefit in blaming the root cause.
 
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Exactly! ****ing exactly!
So? Comparing the redness of an apple doesn't prove a banana is pink.

Blacks WERE oppressed in America. NO ONE denies that. The question is what is the situation NOW. Blacks are NOT systemically oppressed in America today. Black folks of the 1950's would belly laugh at the complaints and blame shifting going on today. We ARE where MLK wanted us to go. People CAN succeed if the content of their character is oriented toward success.... and that includes especially black people. Black people have to do their part. As Brookings established.... get an education, stay away from crime and destructive behavior, and don't have kids until marriage. Not easy... but simple.

I know folks like you would rather blame it on white people or the past. But I can tell you from experience that companies WANT to hire black professionals and see them have successful careers.... and that's corporate leaders across the spectrum.
 
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Not completely off topic but I’ve read articles of some blacks relocating back to Africa, Ghana in this instance, and they’re being welcomed with open arms. It’s ironically one of the places where blacks were sold into slavery by their own people. Guess there’s no benefit in blaming the root cause.
I want people to be happy and successful. It that's what they want then I fully support them. But I've seen black people welcomed into small Midwestern towns where they were apprehensive that "conservatives" would reject or even be antagonistic toward them. What black people are convinced of by liberals about conservatives... is not tethered to truth.

Modern liberals see themselves as being on some cutting edge.... they're fight problems that were answered 30 years ago for the most part.

The history of slavery isn't what is popularly conceived. In the beginning of slavery in the colonies that would become the USA, all slaves were indentured. They had a term or a monetary amount that bought their freedom. Whites and blacks served side by side as indentured slaves. In the 1650's, a black slave in Maryland sued his master who refused to release him. That master strangely enough had once been an indentured servant himself but had later acquired his freedom, a plantation in Maryland, and 5 indentured servants- 4 were white. Eventually a British judge ruled that he could not rule in favor of the black slave because he was not a British subject.

This slave owner's name was Anthony Johnson... he was a black man from Angola.

From the 1650's until 1800, slave population was relatively stable in relation to overall population growth. Though slavery for blacks from certain areas of Africa was permanent their treatment was fairly benign. In Virginia, skilled masons were almost all black men who frequently had great liberty and a home to themselves and an income. They could not leave their master but otherwise were much like an employee today.

Our modern conception of slavery is based on what happened after 1800. The US expanded across the south and large plantations became the most successful economic model for agricultural cash crops like cotton and tobacco. Slaves in Atlantic states began to be "bred" to supply the labor for those plantations. From 1800 to 1860, the number of blacks increased from around 400,000 to about 5 million. Oddly, the percentage of black freemen remained pretty consistent at around 10%. At the start of the Civil War, there were over 1500 black slave owners operating in Confederate states.

The history is cruel in most cases and fascinating on the whole... and like so many things it does not conform to popular liberal narratives.
 
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Why are you making it about race?

I don't claim that white people are "smarter". This should be about the individual... not skin color. But is it racist to say that black athletes generally have more speed than white athletes? If not... why is it so offensive if you are NOT a racist to acknowledge that there might be some other talent that on the extreme margins is more predominant in white people, Asians, or some other variation? When talking about a job market of 130 jobs IN THE WHOLE WORLD... you are dealing with talent and the extreme margin.

People are different and because of our genetic descent we have different strengths and weaknesses. There is more than speed that goes into being a good RB. There is more than intelligence that goes into being a HC.

Why evade? You didn't answer the question. Do you think that there is some kind of conspiracy among major universities to "protect" the "whiteness" of coaching? Do you really believe that if there was a massive pool of better coaches that someone wouldn't take advantage and break ranks?

I cannot tell you what a particular black coach has not done to position himself to be the next Saban. I sincerely DO NOT CARE what color a coach is. Although I knew how unlikely it was... I was pretty warm to the idea of Lovie Smith coaching UT because I thought he would do really well.

The burden of proof is on YOU. There are only 130 or so of these jobs to be had. If you think institutional racism is causing less talented white coaches to get jobs over more talented black coaches then you need to prove it with something objective and verifiable. In 1980, you could have done that and probably with relative ease. I do not believe you can in 2021. When things improve... you need to learn to celebrate the improvement rather than clinging to the grievance.

I have the stats. Blacks are hired a significantly disproportionate rate than their white counterparts. They have not even gotten interviews until recently.

Since the start of the 1963 NFL season, 112 White individuals have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a first NFL head coach opportunity, whereas only 18 men of color have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a first head coach opportunity. In addition, since the start of the 1963 NFL season, 24 White individuals have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a second NFL head coach opportunity, whereas only three men of color have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a second head coach opportunity.

White coaches get second and third opportunities while black counterparts do not.
 
I have the stats. Blacks are hired a significantly disproportionate rate than their white counterparts. They have not even gotten interviews until recently.

Since the start of the 1963 NFL season, 112 White individuals have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a first NFL head coach opportunity, whereas only 18 men of color have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a first head coach opportunity. In addition, since the start of the 1963 NFL season, 24 White individuals have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a second NFL head coach opportunity, whereas only three men of color have been hired as an NFL head coach, offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator after a second head coach opportunity.

White coaches get second and third opportunities while black counterparts do not.
and what makes you think its solely because of race?
 
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Whoa...there was definitely some full Tard going on in here...never opened this thread until a while ago, and apparently there are so many deletes that VN cant even handle it. Got black screened, booted, and came back to a totally different thread...

Well, I have had the opportunity to see "behind the veil" a few times, with the rich, and with those in power, such as Senators and Judges. I see some good, but I also see many people who use or employ others, and they often make decisions in their own self-interest, and they hide "the code" to getting rich from those who are poor, while sharing it with those who are "in the club". They often pay much less in wages than they could, if they were so inclined. They often take from those with less influence, just because they can. It is a mixed bag for sure, but the rich and powerful very often either got where they are by inheritance or by stepping over the backs of the working poor.

In my opinion, the focus on race is a red herring. It is something for people to fight about, while the rich get richer, and the powerful maintain or enhance their power. This makes it a non-partisan issue, if we could simply agree that this is our problem. As a country, we need term limits and campaign finance more than about anything else, but we are too busy on so many other hot-button issues, to fix the real problem. jmo


This here is truth. Poverty is the real cancer on society, and does more to determine outcomes than any other factor by far.

Poverty doesnt discriminate , by the way. There are far more white kids born poor in this country than any other race. Arguing about racism is a huge distraction to divide us...just like politics....as the billionaires get richer and richer, and make all their buddies millionaires. Anything but "eat the rich."

Oh...and socialism doesnt and never has worked. Taking someone elses money is theft, regardless of how much they have, or how you go about taking it...whether with a pistol and ski mask or a government.

This country and the world are screwed. As someone else posted, the nuclear family is being quickly destroyed across all races, and it will be our downfall. We are headed into chaos and despair, just like the Bible says. This world has turned their backs on God, and is reaping the consequences of it.
 
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