Black Coaches (split)

[FLVOL_79]

This doesn't redeem a system that creates racial inequality. You're only looking at it from a policing standpoint. Drugs shouldn't be criminal offenses in the first place. It's supposed to be a free country. Prohibition has set up a system where we get legal excuses for disproportionately locking up minorities, but just because it's the law doesn't justify it. They tend to break these specific laws more, but they're still bad laws that shouldn't be on the books. I promise you that if the war on drugs were hitting whites as hard as it hits blacks, many people would change their tune about the legal justification for it.

You pretty much answer your own question. Why do you think the "War on drugs" doesn't hit Whites as hard? Is it because we are more sneaky about our drug usage? Do we maybe, I don't know, not flaunt it? This reminds me of a shooting in Orlando years ago. Pizza guy got smoked delivering pizza in the hood. The hood rats being interviewed said "this happens in all neighborhoods, even White ones". LOL. No. It doesn't.

 

[Rickyvol77]

This doesn't redeem a system that creates racial inequality. You're only looking at it from a policing standpoint. Drugs shouldn't be criminal offenses in the first place. It's supposed to be a free country. Prohibition has set up a system where we get legal excuses for disproportionately locking up minorities, but just because it's the law doesn't justify it. They tend to break these specific laws more, but they're still bad laws that shouldn't be on the books. I promise you that if the war on drugs were hitting whites as hard as it hits blacks, many people would change their tune about the legal justification for it.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing about the drugs themselves (although i think people should be able to do whatever they want for the most part in their homes), it's the cry of racism when it is NOT a systemic issue related to race. Go watch police in podunk Nebraska deal with criminals in white trailer parks with drug activity. it is the exact SAME and has nothing to do with race.

 

[Y9 Vol]

Deflection.

The argument is that when a white and a black break the same law, the blacks are both arrested at higher rate and receive harsher punishment.

Try to keep up.

Repeat offenders maybe

 

[AM64]

You're right and one of those differences was demonstrated to be racial.

So you are saying that a disproportionate number of black people committing crimes is somehow proof of inequality in the judicial system, but a disproportionate black representation in college and professional football, basketball, etc isn't proof of inequality by the NCAA, NFL, NBA, ...?

 

[jaybird_1981]

Good to see this thread made its way home to the politics forum.

 

[sjt18]

But it is pretty clear they are being chosen based upon how much melanin they have in their skin. Otherwise, you would see more blacks in the coaching ranks.

No more so than saying you would see more white kids at running back if they weren't being disfavored due to race.

I think we can assume that most universities care more about winning than about sustaining some "white" advantage in coaching... right? I mean someone would break the code if there were masses of superior black coaches being passed over who would win more games.

So building off that assumption... the people who are being hired are being hired because they have more talent. In fact, if you have two equally talented coaches a school would be better off choosing the black one since it might provide a recruiting advantage with talented black kids.

From another angle, black recruits are NOT signing disproportionately with black coaches. I happen to think that Mason was a decent coach living with the reality of Vandy football. If top recruits believed that he was as good as other SEC coaches.... they would have signed with him. They didn't. He's no longer employed. Recruits are signing with the coach they believe gives them the best chance to win, succeed, and make the NFL. By and large those are white coaches.

Which specific black coach do you think has been passed over because of his race? What proof can you offer?

 

[sjt18]

If the world operated in a vacuum, then you might have a point, but it doesn't, and neither are they simply hiring some random guy because he's black. It's this kind of silly logic which gets us the level of disparity in the first place and pretends the divide exists for completely legitimate reasons. Rather it's something certain groups whine about when their relative domination of a job, group, opportunity, etc. is disrupted by interlopers who dare to tread on the territory of people who have been given every advantage as possible over them.

Your statement is simply false. The reaction is not because they're being beaten in fields they've performed well in. That's expected. It is that the rules are being changed to specifically disadvantage them.

You want to have a level playing field? Then eliminate every advantage white coaches have been given through the long history of unequal opportunities, i.e. unequal results, and then we'll pretend the vacuum you promote here has any semblance of existence.

Fine. At the same time, let's make black RB's play with ankle weights so their "advantage" is eliminated and allows more white kids to compete for RB scholarships.

No. You don't just "eliminate every advantage" one person has over another. If you want the job then you work harder... you work longer... you overcome the obstacles and the advantages your competitor has. NEVER has that path been more open to a group of people than it is to black Americans in our society today. No majority population has EVER gone so far to open doors to opportunity as white Americans have for black Americans over the past 60 years. You can look. You won't find it in other nations today or in history. Black Americans who have taken advantage of those opportunities... have taken their rightful places. They aren't plagued by crime. They are welcomed in good "white" neighborhoods and groups. Their kids attend safe, high quality schools. They drive new cars. They live in nice houses. The difference is behavior and ethics/morals.

In fact, Nigerians alone refute your argument. They have a significantly higher rate of success in America than the "average" white American born person. They emphasize good morals and education. They have tight, traditional families that raise good disciplined kids.

All this and Washington still doesn't get a whiff of this job unless he's good enough to prospectively keep it, meaning they think he'll do a good job at it. And, that's how it always works for "equal opportunity" anyway.

This contradicts everything you wrote before it.

You want life to be "fair". Guess what. It isn't. The VERY BEST you can hope for is equality of opportunity... that government does NOT try to give any person an advantage over another. The free market and competition will work out the rest. UT wants/wanted Washington because they thought he was a superior candidate for the job. He's a guy who worked hard, took advantage of the opportunities he got, and overcame whatever obstacles lay in his way... just like the white candidates he's competing with.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

completely ridiculous (but expected)

Essentially the whole system if you look at the data. I mean, you even quote posts showing that yet ignore all of it to continue with your alternate reality.

An interesting experiment would be to pull all the cops out and let nature take its' course in those neighborhoods. I wonder what would happen to the murder rate. Probably a non sequitur though.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

When was the last national championship Grambling played for?

 

[VolStrom]

When was the last national championship Grambling played for?

ATLANTA – The second invitation to the third annual Celebration Bowl – to be played on Saturday, Dec. 16, at noon ET from Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta – has been extended to the Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC) college football champion, Grambling State University.
LOL

 

[Unimane]

Your statement is simply false. The reaction is not because they're being beaten in fields they've performed well in. That's expected. It is that the rules are being changed to specifically disadvantage them.

Fine. At the same time, let's make black RB's play with ankle weights so their "advantage" is eliminated and allows more white kids to compete for RB scholarships.

No. You don't just "eliminate every advantage" one person has over another. If you want the job then you work harder... you work longer... you overcome the obstacles and the advantages your competitor has. NEVER has that path been more open to a group of people than it is to black Americans in our society today. No majority population has EVER gone so far to open doors to opportunity as white Americans have for black Americans over the past 60 years. You can look. You won't find it in other nations today or in history. Black Americans who have taken advantage of those opportunities... have taken their rightful places. They aren't plagued by crime. They are welcomed in good "white" neighborhoods and groups. Their kids attend safe, high quality schools. They drive new cars. They live in nice houses. The difference is behavior and ethics/morals.

In fact, Nigerians alone refute your argument. They have a significantly higher rate of success in America than the "average" white American born person. They emphasize good morals and education. They have tight, traditional families that raise good disciplined kids.



This contradicts everything you wrote before it.

You want life to be "fair". Guess what. It isn't. The VERY BEST you can hope for is equality of opportunity... that government does NOT try to give any person an advantage over another. The free market and competition will work out the rest. UT wants/wanted Washington because they thought he was a superior candidate for the job. He's a guy who worked hard, took advantage of the opportunities he got, and overcame whatever obstacles lay in his way... just like the white candidates he's competing with.

This is completely and unreservedly stupid. No group has ever gone so far to open doors as white Americans have for black Americans? First of all, even if that were true and not completely condescending, who closed those doors in the first place? This is the sort of tripe people write when they benefit from a system and try to formulate some cockney justifications for keeping it the same, yet the moment something you perceive it isn't fair to you (as in black people getting a perceived leg up) the "life isn't fair so deal with it" mantra goes up in smoke.

I get it, though, you want to believe in this system because you genuinely believe in it and have bought into its equitable access line. All I see, though, are people waxing nonsense about things they know absolutely nothing about and pretending they have it figured out for people they haven't the faintest idea as to how the world works for them, a complete inability to view the world outside of their own perspective.

Yes, I know I will get the brigade after me for these realities, a large reason being there is a false perception of this being a personal accusation of racism when it's far more about something systematic. The fact certain people don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does the success of some in a group mean the this has become a non factor. Your Nigerian example isn't nearly as good an example as you think, to demonstrate but one thing. These are often people who are often well off in their own societies, allowing them to come to America, and, more importantly, have not experienced the generational issues of black people who have lived here as well a host of other reasons as to why the example is poor. Plus, the issue isn't there is no possibility of success, but greater barriers. Removing the barriers is the objective, not telling people tough ****.

Sorry, you're wrong. You don't know or believe you are wrong, but you are, as are many who have posted here on the topic. And, I will be considered arrogant, an elitist know it all liberal whatever, but all I did to get to this point for myself was stop telling people what they should think and do about themselves and listen to them, which led me to realize I often didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I was doing and advocating the same type of self-serving argument you're giving here.

And, this is the last time I post in this thread because I can only bang my head against the wall so many times before just realizing most have no interest in considering the possibility systemic racism might actually be a thing, bigger than they realize. But, it's not happening to you, so it doesn't exist and those who claim it does are the real problem or hate America or I don't know, whatever the particular aspersion of the day is. Good luck.

 

[Carl Pickens]

This is completely and unreservedly stupid. No group has ever gone so far to open doors as white Americans have for black Americans? First of all, even if that were true and not completely condescending, who closed those doors in the first place? This is the sort of tripe people write when they benefit from a system and try to formulate some cockney justifications for keeping it the same, yet the moment something you perceive it isn't fair to you (as in black people getting a perceived leg up) the "life isn't fair so deal with it" mantra goes up in smoke.

I get it, though, you want to believe in this system because you genuinely believe in it and have bought into its equitable access line. All I see, though, are people waxing nonsense about things they know absolutely nothing about and pretending they have it figured out for people they haven't the faintest idea as to how the world works for them, a complete inability to view the world outside of their own perspective.

Yes, I know I will get the brigade after me for these realities, a large reason being there is a false perception of this being a personal accusation of racism when it's far more about something systematic. The fact certain people don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does the success of some in a group mean the this has become a non factor. Your Nigerian example isn't nearly as good an example as you think, to demonstrate but one thing. These are often people who are often well off in their own societies, allowing them to come to America, and, more importantly, have not experienced the generational issues of black people who have lived here as well a host of other reasons as to why the example is poor. Plus, the issue isn't there is no possibility of success, but greater barriers. Removing the barriers is the objective, not telling people tough ****.

Sorry, you're wrong. You don't know or believe you are wrong, but you are, as are many who have posted here on the topic. And, I will be considered arrogant, an elitist know it all liberal whatever, but all I did to get to this point for myself was stop telling people what they should think and do about themselves and listen to them, which led me to realize I often didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I was doing and advocating the same type of self-serving argument you're giving here.

And, this is the last time I post in this thread because I can only bang my head against the wall so many times before just realizing most have no interest in considering the possibility systemic racism might actually be a thing, bigger than they realize. But, it's not happening to you, so it doesn't exist and those who claim it does are the real problem or hate America or I don't know, whatever the particular aspersion of the day is. Good luck.

Hey mane.... you never addressed the reasons for the lack of so many fathers and father figures in the black community. What happened to families and what not? Did whitey depress, repress and distress them?

 

[Rickyvol77]

This is completely and unreservedly stupid. No group has ever gone so far to open doors as white Americans have for black Americans? First of all, even if that were true and not completely condescending, who closed those doors in the first place? This is the sort of tripe people write when they benefit from a system and try to formulate some cockney justifications for keeping it the same, yet the moment something you perceive it isn't fair to you (as in black people getting a perceived leg up) the "life isn't fair so deal with it" mantra goes up in smoke.

I get it, though, you want to believe in this system because you genuinely believe in it and have bought into its equitable access line. All I see, though, are people waxing nonsense about things they know absolutely nothing about and pretending they have it figured out for people they haven't the faintest idea as to how the world works for them, a complete inability to view the world outside of their own perspective.

Yes, I know I will get the brigade after me for these realities, a large reason being there is a false perception of this being a personal accusation of racism when it's far more about something systematic. The fact certain people don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does the success of some in a group mean the this has become a non factor. Your Nigerian example isn't nearly as good an example as you think, to demonstrate but one thing. These are often people who are often well off in their own societies, allowing them to come to America, and, more importantly, have not experienced the generational issues of black people who have lived here as well a host of other reasons as to why the example is poor. Plus, the issue isn't there is no possibility of success, but greater barriers. Removing the barriers is the objective, not telling people tough ****.

Sorry, you're wrong. You don't know or believe you are wrong, but you are, as are many who have posted here on the topic. And, I will be considered arrogant, an elitist know it all liberal whatever, but all I did to get to this point for myself was stop telling people what they should think and do about themselves and listen to them, which led me to realize I often didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I was doing and advocating the same type of self-serving argument you're giving here.

And, this is the last time I post in this thread because I can only bang my head against the wall so many times before just realizing most have no interest in considering the possibility systemic racism might actually be a thing, bigger than they realize. But, it's not happening to you, so it doesn't exist and those who claim it does are the real problem or hate America or I don't know, whatever the particular aspersion of the day is. Good luck.

I know you aren't a "know it all" after reading some of your previous posting history, saying Pruitt will be a good coach and that Rick Barnes is a mediocre coach who isn't as good as Kevin O'Neill

 

[ClearwaterVol]

No more so than saying you would see more white kids at running back if they weren't being disfavored due to race.

I think we can assume that most universities care more about winning than about sustaining some "white" advantage in coaching... right? I mean someone would break the code if there were masses of superior black coaches being passed over who would win more games.

So building off that assumption... the people who are being hired are being hired because they have more talent. In fact, if you have two equally talented coaches a school would be better off choosing the black one since it might provide a recruiting advantage with talented black kids.

From another angle, black recruits are NOT signing disproportionately with black coaches. I happen to think that Mason was a decent coach living with the reality of Vandy football. If top recruits believed that he was as good as other SEC coaches.... they would have signed with him. They didn't. He's no longer employed. Recruits are signing with the coach they believe gives them the best chance to win, succeed, and make the NFL. By and large those are white coaches.

Which specific black coach do you think has been passed over because of his race? What proof can you offer?

So white people are just better coaches? Probably because they are just smarter, right?

 

[FLVOL_79]

So white people are just better coaches? Probably because they are just smarter, right?

Occams razor homie, Occams razor.

And well, of course, science.

 

[FLVOL_79]

What I love about this thread is that the proponents of the OPs position are essentially (and unknowingly) confirming that George Wallace was basically right and way ahead of his time.

 

[C-south]

So white people are just better coaches? Probably because they are just smarter, right?

Are you saying it’s a genetic issue or a cultural issue?

 

[Boca Vol]

So white people are just better coaches? Probably because they are just smarter, right?

 

[FLVOL_79]

Are you saying it’s a genetic issue or a cultural issue?

You gone and done it now..

 

[FLVOL_79]

My favorite #PedoJoe quote.

 

[Y9 Vol]

This is completely and unreservedly stupid. No group has ever gone so far to open doors as white Americans have for black Americans? First of all, even if that were true and not completely condescending, who closed those doors in the first place? This is the sort of tripe people write when they benefit from a system and try to formulate some cockney justifications for keeping it the same, yet the moment something you perceive it isn't fair to you (as in black people getting a perceived leg up) the "life isn't fair so deal with it" mantra goes up in smoke.

I get it, though, you want to believe in this system because you genuinely believe in it and have bought into its equitable access line. All I see, though, are people waxing nonsense about things they know absolutely nothing about and pretending they have it figured out for people they haven't the faintest idea as to how the world works for them, a complete inability to view the world outside of their own perspective.

Yes, I know I will get the brigade after me for these realities, a large reason being there is a false perception of this being a personal accusation of racism when it's far more about something systematic. The fact certain people don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does the success of some in a group mean the this has become a non factor. Your Nigerian example isn't nearly as good an example as you think, to demonstrate but one thing. These are often people who are often well off in their own societies, allowing them to come to America, and, more importantly, have not experienced the generational issues of black people who have lived here as well a host of other reasons as to why the example is poor. Plus, the issue isn't there is no possibility of success, but greater barriers. Removing the barriers is the objective, not telling people tough ****.

Sorry, you're wrong. You don't know or believe you are wrong, but you are, as are many who have posted here on the topic. And, I will be considered arrogant, an elitist know it all liberal whatever, but all I did to get to this point for myself was stop telling people what they should think and do about themselves and listen to them, which led me to realize I often didn't know what the hell I was talking about when I was doing and advocating the same type of self-serving argument you're giving here.

And, this is the last time I post in this thread because I can only bang my head against the wall so many times before just realizing most have no interest in considering the possibility systemic racism might actually be a thing, bigger than they realize. But, it's not happening to you, so it doesn't exist and those who claim it does are the real problem or hate America or I don't know, whatever the particular aspersion of the day is. Good luck.

Proof positive that the human mind can imagine just about anything to be true.

 

[n_huffhines]

Your statement is simply false. The reaction is not because they're being beaten in fields they've performed well in. That's expected. It is that the rules are being changed to specifically disadvantage them.

Fine. At the same time, let's make black RB's play with ankle weights so their "advantage" is eliminated and allows more white kids to compete for RB scholarships.

No. You don't just "eliminate every advantage" one person has over another. If you want the job then you work harder... you work longer... you overcome the obstacles and the advantages your competitor has. NEVER has that path been more open to a group of people than it is to black Americans in our society today. No majority population has EVER gone so far to open doors to opportunity as white Americans have for black Americans over the past 60 years. You can look. You won't find it in other nations today or in history. Black Americans who have taken advantage of those opportunities... have taken their rightful places. They aren't plagued by crime. They are welcomed in good "white" neighborhoods and groups. Their kids attend safe, high quality schools. They drive new cars. They live in nice houses. The difference is behavior and ethics/morals.

In fact, Nigerians alone refute your argument. They have a significantly higher rate of success in America than the "average" white American born person. They emphasize good morals and education. They have tight, traditional families that raise good disciplined kids.



This contradicts everything you wrote before it.

You want life to be "fair". Guess what. It isn't. The VERY BEST you can hope for is equality of opportunity... that government does NOT try to give any person an advantage over another. The free market and competition will work out the rest. UT wants/wanted Washington because they thought he was a superior candidate for the job. He's a guy who worked hard, took advantage of the opportunities he got, and overcame whatever obstacles lay in his way... just like the white candidates he's competing with.

What are you talking about? How can anybody make a statement like that? I assume (A) you've spent your life studying this question? (B) Maybe read a book about the topic? (C) Completely shooting from the hip?

I'll take C

 

[sjt18]

What are you talking about? How can anybody make a statement like that? I assume (A) you've spent your life studying this question? (B) Maybe read a book about the topic? (C) Completely shooting from the hip?

I'll take C

None of the above. It is a historical fact. If you disagree then name a single society that gave so many advantages to a particular minority in an attempt to pull them up. If you think I am "shooting from the hip" then it should be really, really easy to find that proof.

I would recommend you look at say... the Korean minority in Japan.... the Jewish minority in Iran... the Christian minority in Egypt or Indonesia. If you have an older relative who fought in Vietnam get them to tell you about the Montagnard people.

Maybe better.... tell me about the restitution and special protections being offered the Kurds by the new Iraqi government.

America has its failures. But no people has been more conscious in their attempts to atone for those failures. And again, if you disagree... just give an example.

 

[n_huffhines]

None of the above. It is a historical fact. If you disagree then name a single society that gave so many advantages to a particular minority in an attempt to pull them up. If you think I am "shooting from the hip" then it should be really, really easy to find that proof.

I would recommend you look at say... the Korean minority in Japan.... the Jewish minority in Iran... the Christian minority in Egypt or Indonesia. If you have an older relative who fought in Vietnam get them to tell you about the Montagnard people.

Maybe better.... tell me about the restitution and special protections being offered the Kurds by the new Iraqi government.

America has its failures. But no people has been more conscious in their attempts to atone for those failures. And again, if you disagree... just give an example.

It's not a fact. It's an opinion. You don even know what a fact is so we can stop right there.

 

[sjt18]

So white people are just better coaches? Probably because they are just smarter, right?

Why are you making it about race?

I don't claim that white people are "smarter". This should be about the individual... not skin color. But is it racist to say that black athletes generally have more speed than white athletes? If not... why is it so offensive if you are NOT a racist to acknowledge that there might be some other talent that on the extreme margins is more predominant in white people, Asians, or some other variation? When talking about a job market of 130 jobs IN THE WHOLE WORLD... you are dealing with talent and the extreme margin.

People are different and because of our genetic descent we have different strengths and weaknesses. There is more than speed that goes into being a good RB. There is more than intelligence that goes into being a HC.

Why evade? You didn't answer the question. Do you think that there is some kind of conspiracy among major universities to "protect" the "whiteness" of coaching? Do you really believe that if there was a massive pool of better coaches that someone wouldn't take advantage and break ranks?

I cannot tell you what a particular black coach has not done to position himself to be the next Saban. I sincerely DO NOT CARE what color a coach is. Although I knew how unlikely it was... I was pretty warm to the idea of Lovie Smith coaching UT because I thought he would do really well.

The burden of proof is on YOU. There are only 130 or so of these jobs to be had. If you think institutional racism is causing less talented white coaches to get jobs over more talented black coaches then you need to prove it with something objective and verifiable. In 1980, you could have done that and probably with relative ease. I do not believe you can in 2021. When things improve... you need to learn to celebrate the improvement rather than clinging to the grievance.