Breaking: Ricky Gibson to the portal

#402
#402
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
How do you know this is the case? It's just as likely a team tampered and offered him a number much higher than what we gave him. If another company came after you two months after you signed a contract are you saying you would ignore this potentially huge payday? You'll probably lie and say yes but most people would take the money. Especially if all other factors are equal.

The idea this is him pushing for more money because of McCoy's injury is speculation. But let's say it's true. Okay if that's the case then McCoy would be acting immoral but who said you have to be moral in business negotiations. People lie all the time in negotiations to get the best deal possible. People will claim they have other offers out there that don't exist to gain leverage and so on. It's part of the game as they say in contract negotiations. If you have a problem with this then you shouldn't be in business.

With that said, calling a kid names based on speculation isn't right. If Gibson came out and said he was using McCoy's injury as leverage your position might be justified. But as of now you're simply speculating.
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1. He can't even enter the portal until April. So that would be pretty dumb both for a team to tamper with him and for him to trust said team this far out.

2. AP basically confirmed he's renegotiating because of the McCoy injury.

3. I never called him names. I said he's acting in bad faith and it's a sign of bad character. But I never called him any names
 
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#403
#403
Carp said:
1. He can't even enter the portal until April. So that would be pretty dumb both for a team to tamper with him and for him to trust said team this far out.
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Not if he's trying to negotiate for an even bigger deal with Tennessee. Didn't Mike Matthews and Boo Carter do the same thing in December. Both flirted with entering the portal and got huge paydays. You can't really leverage for a bigger deal unless you're willing to walk away. It's why I expect he'll be back cause I think we're gonna pay up cause he's that valuable.

If I were advising him as a family member I would have told him to do exactly this. Get Tennessee to match what this other team is offering and use entering the portal as leverage. It's the wise business decision. Just because it's bad for you as a Tennessee fan doesn't mean he did anything wrong.
 
#404
#404
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Not if he's trying to negotiate for an even bigger deal with Tennessee. Didn't Mike Matthews and Boo Carter do the same thing in December. Both flirted with entering the portal and got huge paydays. You can't really leverage for a bigger deal unless you're willing to walk away. It's why I expect he'll be back cause I think we're gonna pay up cause he's that valuable.

If I were advising him as a family member I would have told him to do exactly this. Get Tennessee to match what this other team is offering and use entering the portal as leverage. It's the wise business decision. Just because it's bad for you as a Tennessee fan doesn't mean he did anything wrong.
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He already negotiated that deal. That's the point. 2 months ago he negotiated his current deal. Now he shaking us down for more money before playing a single snap on that new deal.

That's acting in a bad faith and it's a sign of poor character.
 
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#405
#405
05_never_again said:
I understand the nostalgia for the way the game used to be. Team loyalty, guys wanting to play for the schools they grew up rooting for, etc. A few thoughts that have helped me come to grips with it though:

Guys playing mostly for "the love of the game" and having a ton of loyalty to their school didn't go away with NIL. All NIL has done is taken what happened under the table and put it on top of the table. Ever since playing professionally meant a higher salary than a well-paying "normal job" (which has been the case since probably the 1950s), guys have committed to programs and coaches who they think maximize their changes of playing professionally. If that coaches leaves the program, many guys aren't interested in staying at that program. The real sea change in the game is the transfer portal, not NIL, and I'm all ears for making the portal calendar make more sense. The way it is currently set up is insane.

If you want the game to go back to essentially being an amateur sport, then you'd have to give up all the modern trappings of the sport. Which I imagine nobody wants to do. I'm talking about massively reduced TV broadcasts of games, smaller stadiums (and a worse gameday experience), less merch, etc. You'd basically have to take away everything that allows the sport to bring in tons of money.

It's just really, really hard to argue that in an endeavor that brings in billions of dollars a year, the players shouldn't be allowed anything beyond their scholarship and maybe a meal stipend.
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(slow clap)
 
#406
#406
Carp said:
1. He can't even enter the portal until April. So that would be pretty dumb both for a team to tamper with him and for him to trust said team this far out.

2. AP basically confirmed he's renegotiating because of the McCoy injury.

3. I never called him names. I said he's acting in bad faith and it's a sign of bad character. But I never called him any names
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Yes or no, did Gibson’s value to TN go up due to McCoy’s injury? If the answer is yes then he’s doing what most people would do, especially those with an agent, relatives and others in their ears. JMO.
 
#407
#407
brockytop said:
Yes or no, did Gibson’s value to TN go up due to McCoy’s injury? If the answer is yes then he’s doing what most people would do, especially those with an agent, relatives and others in their ears. JMO.
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He already signed a contract.

And no, I don't think most people would renege on their contract just because more leverage appeared after they signed.
 
#410
#410
Carp said:
He already signed a contract.

And no, I don't think most people would renege on their contract just because more leverage appeared after they signed.
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Say Coach Garner came to Coach Heupel with "I believe I'm underpaid. Last season, I carried you. I know I've still got time on my contract but I'm valuable to this team, I want a raise or I'm moving on."

Coach Garner would be correct. He had a lot to do with our success since he got to Knoxville. Losing him in the Spring would not be good at all for us.

Should Heupel say: You signed a contract and I expect you to honor it or should he renegotiate with Coach Garner because we need him?

If Rickey Gibson is worth it, renegotiate. If he's not, don't. No drama, just business.
 
#412
#412
lilesrt said:
Maurice Couch would disagree. These kids have a right to sell their talent. Perhaps UT should step up and meet his demands. CB is a position of need. Let’s keep him here. Pay him.
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UT did step up and gave him a nice contract this offseason, everyone was happy. he probably found out someone else got more. If UT pays him more everyone else will want the same deal. He's a good CB but not J McCoy good. He either changes his mind or don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
 
#413
#413
Carp said:
2 months after they signed a contract? No. I most certainly am not being naive.

Why aren't we seeing hundreds of players around the NCAA do this very thing if I am being so naive?
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Because it's risky. UT may let him walk and he's not that good, IMO. He's got a ton of leverage and just a notch or two above average talent.

Most players likely lack the cojones to use leverage like Gibson.
 
#414
#414
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Say Coach Garner came to Coach Heupel with "I believe I'm underpaid. Last season, I carried you. I know I've still got time on my contract but I'm valuable to this team, I want a raise or I'm moving on."

Coach Garner would be correct. He had a lot to do with our success since he got to Knoxville. Losing him in the Spring would not be good at all for us.

Should Heupel say: You signed a contract and I expect you to honor it or should he renegotiate with Coach Garner because we need him?

If Rickey Gibson is worth it, renegotiate. If he's not, don't. No drama, just business.
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RG signed a new contract in the off-season. It's time to cut bait if he wants more money.
 
#415
#415
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Say Coach Garner came to Coach Heupel with "I believe I'm underpaid. Last season, I carried you. I know I've still got time on my contract but I'm valuable to this team, I want a raise or I'm moving on."

Coach Garner would be correct. He had a lot to do with our success since he got to Knoxville. Losing him in the Spring would not be good at all for us.

Should Heupel say: You signed a contract and I expect you to honor it or should he renegotiate with Coach Garner because we need him?

If Rickey Gibson is worth it, renegotiate. If he's not, don't. No drama, just business.
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If Garner signed a contract in December and then came to Huepel tomorrow and said:

"You know what, I changed my mind, I want more money now."

Then Coach Garner would in fact be in the wrong. That's the whole freaking point my guy. Gibson and UTK already negotiated and came to an agreement based off his performance in 2024. Now just 2 months later, he thinks that contract isn't good enough and is shaking down for more money.

That isn't "just business."

As someone else said, what's to stop him pulling the same stunt in April if another player gets injured?
 
#416
#416
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Because it's risky. UT may let him walk and he's not that good, IMO. He's got a ton of leverage and just a notch or two above average talent.

Most players likely lack the cojones to use leverage like Gibson.
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OR...... most players have better business ethics.


What exactly is risky about the situation if it's "just business?" Surely other schools understand it's just business and won't think he's engaging in unethical business practice right?
 
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#417
#417
Carp said:
2 months after they signed a contract? No. I most certainly am not being naive.

Why aren't we seeing hundreds of players around the NCAA do this very thing if I am being so naive?
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There are probably many players with this same consideration but they simply haven’t announced their intentions yet.

Again, one thing you’re leaving out is the agent/adviser and what they’re telling Gibson he should do. A second thing is what he may be hearing from other schools.
 
#418
#418
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Because it's risky. UT may let him walk and he's not that good, IMO. He's got a ton of leverage and just a notch or two above average talent.

Most players likely lack the cojones to use leverage like Gibson.
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Since when does being self-absorbed and fickle require cojones? Being a reliable man is what requires cojones. He has no cojones.
 
#419
#419
Carp said:
If Garner signed a contract in December and then came to Huepel tomorrow and said:

"You know what, I changed my mind, I want more money now."

Then Coach Garner would in fact be in the wrong. That's the whole freaking point my guy. Gibson and UTK already negotiated and came to an agreement based off his performance in 2024. Now just 2 months later, he thinks that contract isn't good enough and is shaking down for more money.

That isn't "just business."

As someone else said, what's to stop him pulling the same stunt in April if another player gets injured?
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If Garner gets an offer after that contract that's better, he's just stuck, eh? That's not how I see it.

If your market value rises significantly, you may want to take the chance to renegotiate even though you just signed. It's a bold move, it may not work, you may end up moving on, BUT if you DO have a better offer, you're worth more even if the contract was signed yesterday.

If UT wanted to fire Garner or cut Gibson, they can dismiss them both at any time if that's what is good for UT.

With Garner there may be buyout terms but that's WHY I keep insisting this needs to be a pro model and not this crap we have now. Gibson is illustrating WHY this needs to be a pro model for business.

It's just time. If you want people to behave like professionals, make them professionals.
 
#420
#420
Carp said:
If Garner signed a contract in December and then came to Huepel tomorrow and said:

"You know what, I changed my mind, I want more money now."

Then Coach Garner would in fact be in the wrong. That's the whole freaking point my guy. Gibson and UTK already negotiated and came to an agreement based off his performance in 2024. Now just 2 months later, he thinks that contract isn't good enough and is shaking down for more money.

That isn't "just business."

As someone else said, what's to stop him pulling the same stunt in April if another player gets injured?
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If any assistant coach signed a contract and was then pursued by NFL teams for more money I’d just about guarantee the offers would be used for leverage.
 
#421
#421
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
If Garner gets an offer after that contract that's better, he's just stuck, eh? That's not how I see it.

If your market value rises significantly, you may want to take the chance to renegotiate even though you just signed. It's a bold move, it may not work, you may end up moving on, BUT if you DO have a better offer, you're worth more even if the contract was signed yesterday.

If UT wanted to fire Garner or cut Gibson, they can dismiss them both at any time if that's what is good for UT.

With Garner there may be buyout terms but that's WHY I keep insisting this needs to be a pro model and not this crap we have now. Gibson is illustrating WHY this needs to be a pro model for business.

It's just time. If you want people to behave like professionals, make them professionals.
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Again, all of that is irrelevant in relation to business ethics.
 
#422
#422
brockytop said:
If any assistant coach signed a contract and was then pursued by NFL teams for more money I’d just about guarantee the offers would be used for leverage.
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That isn't what is happening here. McCoy is using a teammates injury to strong arm the coaching staff for more money.
 
#423
#423
This may be the most money he’ll ever have a chance to make. No issues with him trying to get as much as he can. Hopefully he and Tennessee can get a deal done.
 
#424
#424
brockytop said:
Yes or no, did Gibson’s value to TN go up due to McCoy’s injury? If the answer is yes then he’s doing what most people would do, especially those with an agent, relatives and others in their ears. JMO.
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I've seen this said a few times. I believe you and others who would do this are in the minority. I'd estimate less than 10% of working-class people would screw their team/coworkers/family just 2 months after agreeing to terms on a deal, simply because their team/coworkers/family need them more now thanks to an unfortunate injury. It's a classless move. MOST people would rise to the occasion and at least attempt to steady the ship.

You people are like "oh he's just trying to get paid more" as if maximizing immediate income at the expense of your teammates/coworkers/family is acceptable. It isn't. Heck, I turned down an offer to do just that myself yesterday. It's flat out unwise. This is going to COST Gibson money in the long-run because Tennessee is going to let him walk and no SEC program will touch him because they realize how slippery this slope is for the institutions. By signing Gibson they'd be signaling approval of his behavior to their own team. He'll end up at a place like SMU or UCF. Additionally, he will slide down NFL draft boards because he's proven that he'll hold out for more money just 2 months after agreeing to a deal and he's proven to be a bad teammate. NFL teams have too much at stake to take a chance on a low character player with average skills.
 
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#425
#425
Carp said:
Again, all of that is irrelevant in relation to business ethics.
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Employee value and business ethics collide all the time. Corporate and headhunter poaching happens.

The big IF in this move by Gibson is whether he really has a better offer or he's just using the injury as leverage.

He's been given bad advice if he's just using the injury, IMO, because finding a landing spot may be tough for him. He may be playing in the AAC or something next season.

He's been given good advice if he has a landing spot and leverage. He'll get paid either way.

If UT finds he has no offer, the leverage shifts heavily to UT, IMO.
 
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