BTO’s Austin Peay Postgame Report (and more)

#26
#26
PreacherVol2 said:
Missouri beat #16 Illinois this week.
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Like yesterday in fact. I'm not sure how good Illinois is to be fair, given they're just 8-4, but a great win regardless. That will certainly bolster the resume. Their other marquee OOC game against Kansas they lost by 28 though.
 
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#27
#27
As limited as we are offensively, it would be a massive overacheivement in my mind if we finish 26-5. I think 23-8 is probably more realistic for this group. Championship caliber on defense, which will carry us to a top 2 or 3 finish in the SEC, but we are Pretty average on offense.
 
#28
#28
BigOrangeFanatic said:
As limited as we are offensively, it would be a massive overacheivement in my mind if we finish 26-5. I think 23-8 is probably more realistic for this group. Championship caliber on defense, which will carry us to a top 2 or 3 finish in the SEC, but we are Pretty average on offense.
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Our best shooter has been in a dreadful shooting slump and then working through a banged up shoulder. Our best overall player has basically been out the entire season. Get those 2 back anywhere close to their past performance levels and our offense could quickly go from “Pretty average” to “very good”. JMO
 
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#29
#29
walkenvol said:
Our best shooter has been in a dreadful shooting slump and then working through a banged up shoulder. Our best overall player has basically been out the entire season. Get those 2 back anywhere close to their past performance levels and our offense could quickly go from “Pretty average” to “very good”. JMO
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There's a good chance that we've either seen the last of JJJ in orange or, if he does come back he's not gonna be anywhere close to 100%

Vescovi shooting better will help some but not going to make a huge difference. We just don't have that one player (like a Grant Williams or Scofield) you can throw the ball to at just about any point during the game and say "go get us a basket"

Doesn't mean we suck, or can't compete for the SEC...just means we're very limited on offense. The ceiling isn't as high as it's been in recent years.
 
#30
#30
BigOrangeFanatic said:
There's a good chance that we've either seen the last of JJJ in orange or, if he does come back he's not gonna be anywhere close to 100%

Vescovi shooting better will help some but not going to make a huge difference. We just don't have that one player (like a Grant Williams or Scofield) you can throw the ball to at just about any point during the game and say "go get us a basket"

Doesn't mean we suck, or can't compete for the SEC...just means we're very limited on offense. The ceiling isn't as high as it's been in recent years.
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The legend of JJJ continues to grow as he sits out games. He has been a good solid player for the Vols but now reading this board you would thing he is a three time consensus All American returning for his senior year instead of being the top NBA draft pick. We have been fine without him and will continue to be. Healthy he enhances our team for sure, but if he tries to come back at say 85% then he probably hurts us more than he helps us.
 
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#31
#31
ColinS said:
The legend of JJJ continues to grow as he sits out games. He has been a good solid player for the Vols but now reading this board you would thing he is a three time consensus All American returning for his senior year instead of being the top NBA draft pick. We have been fine without him and will continue to be. Healthy he enhances our team for sure, but if he tries to come back at say 85% then he probably hurts us more than he helps us.
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Agreed. He's been a great team player, one that has always been a lock down defender. Terrific rebounder. He has improved his shot over the course of his career, but has never reached or even sniffed the status of "take the game over" from an offensive standpoint.

I have no doubts, that if healthy, he would help us right now. But even with him and Vescovi shooting better we don't have an offense that's gonna go out score 80 every night, at least against the good teams. Doesn't mean we can't win those games. Because we already have won some big games. But I don't see it winning us the SEC and/or advancing passed the sweet 16.
 
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#33
#33
ColinS said:
The legend of JJJ continues to grow as he sits out games. He has been a good solid player for the Vols but now reading this board you would thing he is a three time consensus All American returning for his senior year instead of being the top NBA draft pick. We have been fine without him and will continue to be. Healthy he enhances our team for sure, but if he tries to come back at say 85% then he probably hurts us more than he helps us.
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No doubt if he comes back less than 100% he will not have much, if any, effect and very well could be a negative to the team. JJJ's offensive game relies on having reps and game speed practice I believe.

Regarding his legend, please cite where anyone has written anything that would lead you to believe he is an All American (let alone 3 time...lol)...I don't read every thread/post but I doubt you can reference anything of substance.

I suspect what you have read is posters recognizing JJJ is our best defensive player and our 1 of maybe only 2 players who can play at all 3 levels and hit a shot when you need it (I would say ZZ is the other player right now although JP is showing some flashes). Add to that JJJ's leadership on this team and it is easy to see why a compelling case can be made that he means a LOT to this team and I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that assessment.
 
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#34
#34
MinisterofDef#92 said:
No doubt if he comes back less than 100% he will not have much, if any, effect and very well could be a negative to the team. JJJ's offensive game relies on having reps and game speed practice I believe.

Regarding his legend, please cite where anyone has written anything that would lead you to believe he is an All American (let alone 3 time...lol)...I don't read every thread/post but I doubt you can reference anything of substance.

I suspect what you have read is posters recognizing JJJ is our best defensive player and our 1 of maybe only 2 players who can play at all 3 levels and hit a shot when you need it (I would say ZZ is the other player right now although JP is showing some flashes). Add to that JJJ's leadership on this team and it is easy to see why a compelling case can be made that he means a LOT to this team and I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that assessment.
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I'm obviously speaking a little hyperbole which is common message board fodder but my point is that he isn't as important as some are carrying on. At no point have I stated that, if healthy, he wouldn't make us better.
 
#35
#35
BigOrangeFanatic said:
There's a good chance that we've either seen the last of JJJ in orange or, if he does come back he's not gonna be anywhere close to 100%

Vescovi shooting better will help some but not going to make a huge difference. We just don't have that one player (like a Grant Williams or Scofield) you can throw the ball to at just about any point during the game and say "go get us a basket"

Doesn't mean we suck, or can't compete for the SEC...just means we're very limited on offense. The ceiling isn't as high as it's been in recent years.
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I'm not sure JJJ has ever consistently been that player, either, though, so he doesn't really address that problem. He's never been good at finishing at the rim, so what is really missed his defense, versatility, and 3-pt shooting. But he's never really been the go-to guy like Grant or Admiral.
 
#36
#36
ColinS said:
I'm obviously speaking a little hyperbole which is common message board fodder but my point is that he isn't as important as some are carrying on. At no point have I stated that, if healthy, he wouldn't make us better.
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We’ll just have to agree to disagree. No one is calling him an All-American but for those who have watched Tennessee basketball the past few years, it is fairly undeniable he is our most complete player on the roster. He is definitely more important to our Final Four aspirations than you are leading others to believe.

JJJ is our best defender. He is the most experienced player on the roster. He is the de facto leader of this team. And, while he is unreliable on the offensive end, he is still the only proven 3 level scorer. This team is a lot better with a healthy JJJ.
 
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#37
#37
cncchris33 said:
I'm not sure JJJ has ever consistently been that player, either, though, so he doesn't really address that problem. He's never been good at finishing at the rim, so what is really missed his defense, versatility, and 3-pt shooting. But he's never really been the go-to guy like Grant or Admiral.
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Never in my post did I mention JJJ being that guy. In fact, if you look at my next post after the one you quoted you'll see pretty much the same thing that you just said.
 
#38
#38
BigOrangeFanatic said:
Never in my post did I mention JJJ being that guy. In fact, if you look at my next post after the one you quoted you'll see pretty much the same thing that you just said.
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Sorry. The lead-in kind of made it sound like we were missing JJJ, and then that we didn't have that go-to scorer, so I drew the conclusion that you believed he was that player.
 
#39
#39
cncchris33 said:
Sorry. The lead-in kind of made it sound like we were missing JJJ, and then that we didn't have that go-to scorer, so I drew the conclusion that you believed he was that player.
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Nope...I believe we'd all agree we'd like to have seen him become that...just doesn't suit him.
 
#40
#40
ColinS said:
I'm obviously speaking a little hyperbole which is common message board fodder but my point is that he isn't as important as some are carrying on. At no point have I stated that, if healthy, he wouldn't make us better.
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Again...please cite who are "some" of the posters you keep referring to who are carrying on about JJJ being an Alll-American.
 
#41
#41
cncchris33 said:
I'm not sure JJJ has ever consistently been that player, either, though, so he doesn't really address that problem. He's never been good at finishing at the rim, so what is really missed his defense, versatility, and 3-pt shooting. But he's never really been the go-to guy like Grant or Admiral.
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Agree with this take. He is definitely not a legit "go to" player who can score at-will BUT he is arguably our best player on this current team who can create a good look when you need it (doesn't mean he converts at the %'age of someone like a Grant Williams mind you). How some posters extrapolate that to "well, you must think he is an AA" is really mind-blowing to me.
 
#42
#42
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Again...please cite who are "some" of the posters you keep referring to who are carrying on about JJJ being an Alll-American.
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Again, I was not being literal. I have seen him referred to as a go to scorer which he has never been. One guy said we needed him because of his ability to drive to the basket which has never been his game. He has also been called the best player on the team. That a matter of opinion that a person is perfectly entitled to but I disagree. I would say probably third best. Research the term hyperbole that I referenced earlier for a better understanding of my comments.
 
#43
#43
ColinS said:
Again, I was not being literal. I have seen him referred to as a go to scorer which he has never been. One guy said we needed him because of his ability to drive to the basket which has never been his game. He has also been called the best player on the team. That a matter of opinion that a person is perfectly entitled to but I disagree. I would say probably third best. Research the term hyperbole that I referenced earlier for a better understanding of my comments.
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You cannot possibly believe that when healthy JJJ is the 3rd best player on this roster. Really?
 
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#44
#44
ColinS said:
Again, I was not being literal. I have seen him referred to as a go to scorer which he has never been. One guy said we needed him because of his ability to drive to the basket which has never been his game. He has also been called the best player on the team. That a matter of opinion that a person is perfectly entitled to but I disagree. I would say probably third best. Research the term hyperbole that I referenced earlier for a better understanding of my comments.
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I'm not trying to be a hard*ss on the citation request...just honestly had not seen the posts and I have not perceived the comments on JJJ in the same way. This is a good discussion so thought I would respond - not trying to argue or change your mind (just honestly find it interesting to explore a bit more).

The bolded is likely the difference in our perspectives here. A "go to" scorer to me is someone who consistently gets buckets when you call his number. I have seen JJJ called either our most important player or one of a couple players who mean the most to the team. I have stated he and ZZ are currently our best triple threats on offense (with JP showing real promise if he continues to develop) which I believe is hard to argue based on our current roster. However, I would agree with you that JJJ is not a "go to" scorer especially when compared to the current collegiate landscape.

As far as stating JJJ is 3rd best, I assume you have SV and ZZ ahead of him. I love SV's game...beyond the obvious with his sharp-shooting skills, he has immensely improved on defense (becoming a tenacious pain in the *ss to opposing players) and he has consistently been a great rebounder as a guard throughout his career. The limitation of SV is what we saw last year at some crucial times when opposing teams could lock him down due to his inability to create his own shot. This factor, to me, is the key tie-breaker for him vs. either ZZ or JJJ.

I went back and looked at our last 15 games to see what the data shows for each player with respect to points scored, total rebounds, assist %, offensive rating, defensive rating, and +/-. JJJ was the best among these 3 players in every category except assist %. JJJ also came in either 1st or 2nd on the team in terms of points scored, total rebounds, and defensive rating in over half of those games.

Here is the summary:

1671997278566.png
 
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#46
#46
MinisterofDef#92 said:
I'm not trying to be a hard*ss on the citation request...just honestly had not seen the posts and I have not perceived the comments on JJJ in the same way. This is a good discussion so thought I would respond - not trying to argue or change your mind (just honestly find it interesting to explore a bit more).

The bolded is likely the difference in our perspectives here. A "go to" scorer to me is someone who consistently gets buckets when you call his number. I have seen JJJ called either our most important player or one of a couple players who mean the most to the team. I have stated he and ZZ are currently our best triple threats on offense (with JP showing real promise if he continues to develop) which I believe is hard to argue based on our current roster. However, I would agree with you that JJJ is not a "go to" scorer especially when compared to the current collegiate landscape.

As far as stating JJJ is 3rd best, I assume you have SV and ZZ ahead of him. I love SV's game...beyond the obvious with his sharp-shooting skills, he has immensely improved on defense (becoming a tenacious pain in the *ss to opposing players) and he has consistently been a great rebounder as a guard throughout his career. The limitation of SV is what we saw last year at some crucial times when opposing teams could lock him down due to his inability to create his own shot. This factor, to me, is the key tie-breaker for him vs. either ZZ or JJJ.

I went back and looked at our last 15 games to see what the data shows for each player with respect to points scored, total rebounds, assist %, offensive rating, defensive rating, and +/-. JJJ was the best among these 3 players in every category except assist %. JJJ also came in either 1st or 2nd on the team in terms of points scored, total rebounds, and defensive rating in over half of those games.

Here is the summary:

View attachment 526630
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To be fair to JJJ you should probably look at the last 15 games as a healthy player but, yes, I think ZZ and Vescovi are more important to this roster.
 
#47
#47
MinisterofDef#92 said:
I'm not trying to be a hard*ss on the citation request...just honestly had not seen the posts and I have not perceived the comments on JJJ in the same way. This is a good discussion so thought I would respond - not trying to argue or change your mind (just honestly find it interesting to explore a bit more).

The bolded is likely the difference in our perspectives here. A "go to" scorer to me is someone who consistently gets buckets when you call his number. I have seen JJJ called either our most important player or one of a couple players who mean the most to the team. I have stated he and ZZ are currently our best triple threats on offense (with JP showing real promise if he continues to develop) which I believe is hard to argue based on our current roster. However, I would agree with you that JJJ is not a "go to" scorer especially when compared to the current collegiate landscape.

As far as stating JJJ is 3rd best, I assume you have SV and ZZ ahead of him. I love SV's game...beyond the obvious with his sharp-shooting skills, he has immensely improved on defense (becoming a tenacious pain in the *ss to opposing players) and he has consistently been a great rebounder as a guard throughout his career. The limitation of SV is what we saw last year at some crucial times when opposing teams could lock him down due to his inability to create his own shot. This factor, to me, is the key tie-breaker for him vs. either ZZ or JJJ.

I went back and looked at our last 15 games to see what the data shows for each player with respect to points scored, total rebounds, assist %, offensive rating, defensive rating, and +/-. JJJ was the best among these 3 players in every category except assist %. JJJ also came in either 1st or 2nd on the team in terms of points scored, total rebounds, and defensive rating in over half of those games.

Here is the summary:

View attachment 526630
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Recency bias. I think people forget just how good he was the 2nd half of last season.
 
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#49
#49
cardvolfan said:
Recency bias. I think people forget just how good he was the 2nd half of last season.
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Agreed. We know what JJJ brings defensively but once he started stroking the 3 the lane opened up for him and, for the first time as a Vol, he became a real threat driving to the basket (still not a "go to" guy every time down the court but someone who could pick his spots and make a few key plays).
 
#50
#50
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Agreed. We know what JJJ brings defensively but once he started stroking the 3 the lane opened up for him and, for the first time as a Vol, he became a real threat driving to the basket (still not a "go to" guy every time down the court but someone who could pick his spots and make a few key plays).
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Yes, I agree. I would also say that I felt great knowing JJJ was capable making the play we needed each time we had an offensive possession. It’s such a “what have you done for me lately” kind of world. The truth is that 90% of posters have a really limited view of college basketball. Experience is such a great teacher.
 
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