Bush admits Iraq nothing to do with 9/11

#76
#76
So what...Israel has idiots and so do we. That's the only point you made there. See the Big Picture... I suppose you are for pulling the troops from Iraq and calling it a day just because most Americans are uninformed sheep and have not a clue what's waiting? They question the war with Hezbollah because they pulled out too soon and had bad leadership!!! The polls at the beginning of the war indicated a 90% support rate!!! And you keep speaking of Hezbollah as if they dominated Israel...are you serious? They had basically what amounted to unguided rockets. Might as well have been high powered slingshots!
 
#77
#77
Olmert is lucky there was not a military coup over this. This was Israel's opportunity to finally get rid of Hezbollah, possibly get rid of Syria and Iran. Olmert caved in to international pressure. Olmert has absolutely no chance of reelection, however, since he was just recently elected Prime Minister, Israeli's must deal with his passive stance against Palestine and Hezbollah for a while.
From everything I have heard, the top military brass were very close to ousting Olmert prior to the offensive against Hezbollah. Apparently, they were calling for a more aggressive strategy than Olmert signed off on.
 
#78
#78
So what...Israel has idiots and so do we. That's the only point you made there. See the Big Picture... I suppose you are for pulling the troops from Iraq and calling it a day just because most Americans are uninformed sheep and have not a clue what's waiting? They question the war with Hezbollah because they pulled out too soon and had bad leadership!!! The polls at the beginning of the war indicated a 90% support rate!!! And you keep speaking of Hezbollah as if they dominated Israel...are you serious? They had basically what amounted to unguided rockets. Might as well have been high powered slingshots!

Uhhh....follow your own post here. Where does Iraq tie into my post? Why reach out with that? They question the war result because they did not achieve what they set out to do. Essentially, Hezbollah got to train and fight against the best military in the region and held on. We still do not even know how many of their fighters were even killed. Israel had several goals. One was to regain their soldiers - not achieved. Another one was to stop the rockets - not achieved and as a matter of fact they increased. Who cares if they were accurate? Another goal was to completely destroy Hezbollah as an entity - did not achieve.

Hezbollah comes out the clear winner because they still have their missiles, they are still intact and capable of fighting even more, they survived a brutal air campaign, they still fired increasing numbers of missiles up to the end, they still are a force and one who has a voice in this process, they still have those soldiers, and they have shown the Middle East that they can handle fighting Israel and live to fight even another day. Their support has quadrupled since the end of this war. Actually, their support was dwindling up to the actual fighting. The Lebanese were becoming completely disgruntled with the lack of a functioning government and no traction on any issues. Now the people there love them and even the secular and Christian groups have turned against Israel because of this. The US gets a black eye because they are arming Israel and providing them with intel all while telling the Muslim nations we wish to befriend them.

You tell me with all of this that Hezbollah lost?
 
#79
#79
I think much of the fault lies with the actual planners and logistics. You see issues on supplies not reaching units, intel being relayed in late, friendly fire because of uncoordinated plans of attack, taking villages, pulling out, and then returning over and over, etc. Most of the grumbling I've heard from the boots on the ground have said that you could go up the chain of command and hit snags at every level. Their feeling is that Olmert signed off on a blank check and hoped the brass would swiftly get results. The air war was supposed to be the primary crushing force and within the first week this was seen as having little effect.
 
#80
#80
I think if you are Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria, you have to take advantage of the situation. They have to strike, and strike to kill Israel as a nation before Netanyahu takes over after the next elections.
 
#81
#81
It's funny to see how every major face in Israeli politics has been in serious trouble for corruption, etc. I seriously wonder if Bibi can even step back into that office again.
 
#82
#82
It's funny to see how every major face in Israeli politics has been in serious trouble for corruption, etc. I seriously wonder if Bibi can even step back into that office again.
As long as he runs as a hawk the people of Israel will give them their votes.
 
#83
#83
I think if you are Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria, you have to take advantage of the situation. They have to strike, and strike to kill Israel as a nation before Netanyahu takes over after the next elections.


They may try. But, if they do come after Israel, you will see them abandon all fear of international image, and wipe some muzzies off the map. False hope. None of them could truly handle Israel, if Israel fought like Israel, and not the US. The attempt will happen though. Muzzies are that way. They fear strength, but ridicule and attack confusion and passivism. The people of indifference are their foes.
 
#84
#84
They may try. But, if they do come after Israel, you will see them abandon all fear of international image, and wipe some muzzies off the map. False hope. None of them could truly handle Israel, if Israel fought like Israel, and not the US. The attempt will happen though. Muzzies are that way. They fear strength, but ridicule and attack confusion and passivism. The people of indifference are their foes.
Are you seriously callling them "Muzzies?"
Anyway, a well planned and coordinated attack could eliminate Israel's capability to counter attack.
 
#85
#85
They've tended to hit the moderates up lately. I still think Bibi has too much dirty laundry. Had he kept his nose clean, he'd still be in office raising all hell.
 
#86
#86
Here's a good read from frontpagemag.com

"The fact remains, for all the losses that IDF tanks and infantry suffered at the hands of Hezbollah fighters armed with sophisticated anti-tank missiles, Israeli soldiers won every tactical engagement. There is no doubt that, if given the necessary time and freedom, the IDF would have eviscerated Hezbollah. That was the preferred course of the Israeli public: Polls show a majority wanted to continue fighting rather than accept the U.N. cease-fire. That sentiment was shared by the mayors of towns in the north who met with a group of visitors on August 10 after having been under incessant rocket attack for a month. Over dinner on the Golan Heights, as Israeli artillery shells roared overhead and as Israeli attack jets and helicopters streaked through the night sky popping flares, local leaders told me that they were willing to stay in their shelters as long as it took to eradicate the terrorist menace across the border.

The failure (or, if you like, incomplete success) of this summer's Second Lebanon War was not the fault of ordinary Israeli soldiers and civilians. It was the fault of Israel's current leaders, civil and military, who were shortsighted and irresponsible in their lack of preparation for this war and vacillating and irresolute in its conduct. Those complaints should sound familiar to anyone who has followed the dispiriting course of the conflict in Iraq.

No doubt our jihadist enemies will conclude from the setbacks suffered by Israel and America in Lebanon and Iraq that the West is, as Osama bin Laden once put it, a "paper tiger." Such misapprehensions have long bedeviled liberal democracies. Recall the contempt that Napoleon expressed for Britain as a "nation of shopkeepers." Or the widespread assumption in the 1930s that liberal democracies were finished: that they were too degenerate and decadent to compete with such vibrant ideologies as Nazism, fascism, and communism. That illusion was buried in the rubble of Dresden and Hiroshima. As Dwight Eisenhower wrote his brother on the day that World War II began, "Hitler should beware of the fury of an aroused democracy." By the time the fighting ended six years later, American and British bombers had incinerated more than 600,000 German and Japanese men, women, and children.

Today this might be condemned as a "disproportionate response." The attack on Pearl Harbor, after all, left "only" 2,403 American dead. Yet I sense that even now America, Israel, even Europe would be capable of perpetrating violence on a similar scale if sufficiently provoked. Unfortunately, the way things are going, with Iran and its terrorist proxies growing powerful and increasingly impudent while the Western democracies lick their wounds, we may see this proposition put to the test before long."

Bottom line...mess with the bull and you get the horn.
 
#88
#88
Are you serious? No one can be that dense. Look back at the World Wars and think about what has gotten us to where we are today...it certainly wasn't being passive and trying appease the media and the United Nations. The willingness to use a disproportionate response in a war where you know there will be collateral damage beyond the imagination of most in order to stop the aggressors and all those who oppose freedom and democracy is what I like to call...."messing with the bull and getting the horn." What we lack at the present is sufficient motivation, but it's building for certain. But to answer your question, Germany and Japan have both been recipients of the horn.
 
#89
#89
I wonder how long before he's proven wrong in this thread, and just quits posting in it like he did in the 9-11 Conspiracy thread.

No one is going to "debate" with you if you run away like a girl when you are beat.

I cant be on all the time like yourself orang, ever wanna debate me come on ahead, i live in Alcoa, where are you?
 
#90
#90
You should have watched the whole press conference, you might have learned something. Bush stated that Iraq was a threat and that after 9/11 America has to deal with threats before they fully materialize. Now, if you find fault with a doctrine of pre-emptive warfare, than argue that, not this apparently new revelation...

Don't you think that pre emptive warfare is very un-american??
 
#92
#92
Don't you think that pre emptive warfare is very anti american??
No. Let me name the wars in which America struck first:
The Revolutionary War
The Spanish-American War
The War for Mexico
The War Against Nazi Germany
Operation Just Cause

Those five were just off the top of my head.
 
#93
#93
Uh, no I don't want to get into the same predictable discussion. I respect your viewpoint, but I think it's fairly obvious where you are going with this and nothing said to the contrary is going to change your opinion.

GA Vol, I am open to change my opinion on some things, but if my country was attacked by country A and my government starts a pre emptive war with countries B & C I would be asking questions. I just cannot believe that more americans, even though there was/is a huge emotional strain because of 9/11,are not wondering why there is no action taken with Saudi Arabia yet a war was undertaken in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I believe a lot of Americans back when the war started wanted, justifiably some measure of revenge, but nothing was done to the nation who bore almost all of the hijackers Saudi Arabia and the state sponsored terrorism. I do not know if it was due to the intense ties the U.S has with the Saudi royalty and the oil they control but I sure would like someone to explain why nothing was done about the Saudi involvement in 9/11
 
#94
#94
No. Let me name the wars in which America struck first:
The Revolutionary War
The Spanish-American War
The War for Mexico
The War Against Nazi Germany
Operation Just Cause

Those five were just off the top of my head.

Oh I was told all my life by absolutely everyone that the war with Nazi Germany had been going on for fully two years before the americans got involved. I seem to remember something happening in Hawaii with an ally of Nazi Germany attacking the US Navy, of course I could be wrong, history seems to get rewritten on some of these message boards. Sweet Jesus!
 
#95
#95
Oh I was told all my life by absolutely everyone that the war with Nazi Germany had been going on for fully two years before the americans got involved. I seem to remember something happening in Hawaii with an ally of Nazi Germany attacking the US Navy, of course I could be wrong, history seems to get rewritten on some of these message boards. Sweet Jesus!
Japan attacked the US at Pearl Harbor. Germany had absolutely nothing to do with that attack. Less than a week later we declared war on Germany. Germany was at war with Great Britain, not the US, when we entered the war against Germany. Our action was most definitely pre-emptive against Germany.
 
#96
#96
GA Vol, I am open to change my opinion on some things, but if my country was attacked by country A and my government starts a pre emptive war with countries B & C I would be asking questions. I just cannot believe that more americans, even though there was/is a huge emotional strain because of 9/11,are not wondering why there is no action taken with Saudi Arabia yet a war was undertaken in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I believe a lot of Americans back when the war started wanted, justifiably some measure of revenge, but nothing was done to the nation who bore almost all of the hijackers Saudi Arabia and the state sponsored terrorism. I do not know if it was due to the intense ties the U.S has with the Saudi royalty and the oil they control but I sure would like someone to explain why nothing was done about the Saudi involvement in 9/11
There was no higher level involvement from Saudi Arabia. Yes, many of the highjackers were originally from Saudi Arabia. However, they were also ex-pats of Saudi and were more than disenfranchised with the Saudi gov't.
 
#97
#97
Are you serious? No one can be that dense. But to answer your question, Germany and Japan have both been recipients of the horn.

Speaking of dense....following this whole discussion you didn't answer my question. I will be a little more specific. In this Israel-Hezbollah conflict who got the horn?
 
#98
#98
No. Let me name the wars in which America struck first:
The Revolutionary War
The Spanish-American War
The War for Mexico
The War Against Nazi Germany
Operation Just Cause

Those five were just off the top of my head.

How did America strike first in the Revolutionary War?
 
#99
#99
How did America strike first in the Revolutionary War?

I was thinking the same thing.

As for Nazi Germany, they did kinda sink the Lusitania, that's what really got us going against them, and they had attacked our allies, I can see where you are coming from for the most part, but it's a bit up in the air. A point can be made either way.
 
I was thinking the same thing.

As for Nazi Germany, they did kinda sink the Lusitania, that's what really got us going against them, and they had attacked our allies, I can see where you are coming from for the most part, but it's a bit up in the air. A point can be made either way.
The sinking of the Lusitania was WWI.
 

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