Butch's Offense: Better Than What We've Seen (WARNING: long)

#27
#27
A_Vol_n_Hog_Country said:
It's not his system I'm worried about it. As you've pointed out it works with the right players. I'm concerned with lack of adjustments and the willingness to change a few things that make his system more suitable for our current players.
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This. I'm not looking at the system, I'm looking at the play calling, adjustments etc.. Within the game. The offensive gameplan the last two weeks have been crap. You abandon the run yesterday and Worley throws it 37 times. he shouldn't have thrown it 20.

FGs are not glamorous but sometimes you have to take what is given to you. I don't know if Jones will be successful or not. But the in game coaching so far is somewhat suspect on both sides of the ball.
 
#28
#28
JAEvans24 said:
People keep saying this.

Pro Style offenses utilize vertical passing more than most styles. What Makes you think Worley can do that any better?

Why don't we try and utilize a West Coast offense where we throw short, quick passes? Well, Worley threw two interceptions on routes less than 7 yards (5 yard out and a 6 yard button route).

I think Butch sees it as using this year to implement his offense. I don't think Worley would be very successful in any offense. Our running game did very well yesterday, so the read option did great.
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Since we're panicking AND embracing tradition, bench Worley and put Pig out therein the SINGLE WING!! Butch would be fetching in a fedora and we'd get black back into the color scheme! Lotsandlotsandlots of QB keepers....in fact after this we'll be ecstatic for a forward pass...grateful even!
:peace2::peace2::dance:
 
#30
#30
steino said:
This. I'm not looking at the system, I'm looking at the play calling, adjustments etc.. Within the game. The offensive gameplan the last two weeks have been crap. You abandon the run yesterday and Worley throws it 37 times. he shouldn't have thrown it 20.

FGs are not glamorous but sometimes you have to take what is given to you. I don't know if Jones will be successful or not. But the in game coaching so far is somewhat suspect on both sides of the ball.
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Both fair points Steino. 37 pass attempts versus 36 runs is more than I would like to see from this team. I also agree about field goals. We've had way to many possessions in enemy territory which have resulted in zero points. Part may be play calling but our quarterback also needs to learn to throw the ball away and not force throws when we have a sure three points there for the taking.
 
#31
#31
JAEvans24 said:
It's no secret that most of VolNation is not enamored with the play calling and lack of variety thus far. We have many upset that we are running the seemingly same plays; others are unhappy with not throwing more.

Let Coach Boone's wisdom, from 'Remember the Titans' sink in here: "It's like Novacaine, just give it time it always works."

Another problem that many of us have is accepting the implementation of an entirely new style of offense - the spread option/zone run scheme. For years, Tennessee has been an avid 'Pro Style' offense (still my favorite), but CBJ and staff have a different philosophy. Their philosophy hinges on the spread read option.

Here is one of the great offensive college minds explaining.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x6RnpZEEgw&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​
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This year we have one major problem. We don't have the quarterback to run it well.

Butch's QB this year (pro style):
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View attachment 67593
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Butch's QB last year (dual threat & faster):
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View attachment 67594

I'm not knocking Worley, but he isn't even doing the pro style well. With that said, he never was recruited to run a read option style offense.

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I'm not going to go all E-Coach, but I have spent the past two hours watching old film from Butch's offense at Cincinnati in 2011 and 2012. The defense acts completely different than the defenses we are seeing this year. Worley has only kept the ball five times in five games. The defensive end always crashes down on the RB, essentially negating the 'QB Blocking Defender' advantage this offense creates.

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Examples of the defensive end staying honest and guarding the quarterback in Butch's offense[spoiler: good things happen].

DE #93 watches Legaux giving the rb only 1 guy to beat - Result: TD

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXYny0iLq7A&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

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DE #90 watches Legaux allowing the RB to house it

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBUHk4HQsb4&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

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Left DE contains QB making for another TD

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RWFTfO0DiI&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

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The Read Option allows for tremendous Play Action opportunities - particularly down field. The quarterback has to be able to make deep throws; something Worley is struggling with and frankly, the coaching staff is afraid to let him do with consistency.

3 Play Action/Read Option plays where the action burnt the defense after they committed to stopping the read option run​

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmupiAnS9nU&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

_________________

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7aOqp2sz4I&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]
​

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjIXE9Qu5nQ&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

[BONUS: Goal Line Play Action]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fg7-_wAaKc&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

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This offense allows for overloads:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSjebOe1_Gw&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

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It also allows for trick plays and reverses:

Bubble Screen WR to QB Pass:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPSOBzhAtM4&feature=share&list=PLD3ji-pwTp5KTGUYcIS__vioh_fT3VhkG[/youtube]​

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Rest assured ladies and gents that Butch has more run plays. He has the dart, outside zone, inside zone, counter, zone trap and more. Butch has said time and time again that he will only run the plays after the offense fully grasps it. The defense doesn't always have to be fooled. Real football offenses simply smash the defensive line and get 4 yards or more. If we can't do that than why should we turn to more complicated zone runs.

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I would like to address a fallacious knock on this style offense. That knock being that this offense will not work against the SEC due to speed. It's true that SEC has the fastest players in the country and the concern is a legitimate one. That's the beauty of this offense. Most of these runs are off tackle, unless the QB keeps it. Furthermore, many teams run this in the SEC: Florida, TAMU, South Carolina, Auburn and more. Other very good teams around the country that run it and run it effectively: Oregon, Ohio State, Michigan, etc.

I wanted to post more and explain the dart play (a staple for the explosive Clemson offense), the read option style of Oregon (another explosive offense), and Urban Meyers power read option in Ohio State that Braxton Miller kills it with.

We will get it. Butch Jones is 3-2 as expected. We have, what many analysts say is the hardest schedule in the history of college football. Our team will be exposed, but Butch is plain and simple a winner. I think the man deserves a little more patience and respect.

I'm not okay with mediocrity at Tennessee - but the fact is plain and simple that it will take time. Let him coach. Everyone clamored for Peterman and look what happened. Butch wants to keep the redshirts on these young freshmen and I'm sure he has a dang good reason to do it. Worley simply is not very good and it's at the most important position. This year will be tough, but allow him to recruit players and develop the young talent we have.

Lastly, I know we've had some bad coaches recently, but I truly think Butch is a winner. Kiffin and Dooley were failed experiments but Butch has tasted championships and developed Big East (and MAC) players into NFL caliber players. Imagine what he can do here at THE University of Tennessee with time, support, and the resources that our great school afford.
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Thank you for taking the time to do this. I have said for a few years now that this is the offense we need to switch and my reason is that now in the SEC the better teams are running a pro style offense and are recruiting all the best recruits. There are a bunch of outstanding athletes in high school that do not fit into a pro style offense that are looking for a place to play.
 
#32
#32
Freak said:
Both fair points Steino. 37 pass attempts versus 36 runs is more than I would like to see from this team. I also agree about field goals. We've had way to many possessions in enemy territory which have resulted in zero points. Part may be play calling but our quarterback also needs to learn to throw the ball away and not force throws when we have a sure three points there for the taking.
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Yeah, maybe we need to add some end a rounds to slow the rush since we are struggling to keep the D honest with passing.
 
#33
#33
This is probably the most impressive argument and thread posting, I have seen. We need to stop acting like babies, Butch is no Dooley. This his offense, he has to implement it.
 
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#34
#34
volfan411 said:
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I have said for a few years now that this is the offense we need to switch and my reason is that now in the SEC the better teams are running a pro style offense and are recruiting all the best recruits. There are a bunch of outstanding athletes in high school that do not fit into a pro style offense that are looking for a place to play.
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It definitely allows for some wiggle room with athletes that aren't necessarily prototypical size - though we still like those too.
 
#35
#35
I strongly concur with others. Thread explains it all. As for the dissenters on this board we can only hope they learn how to read and think.
 
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#36
#36
Great post because it is all about X's and O's, because the read option does work.. It will take some time and recruiting classes like we have right now to right this ship, why is it so hard to understand that we just do not have the talent on our roster that we are used to having from years past?? We have played I think like 13 or more freshmen this year alone, 3rd most in FBS.. Let's face it the cupboard is bare on both sides of the ball on The Hill, and it really shows after 4 quarters of football!!! When I played tailback we ran the wishbone LOL so it is light years ahead of what I grew up playing and watching.. It is not the coaching that is for sure IMO!!!
 
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#37
#37
OrebankVol said:
Great post because it is all about X's and O's, because the read option does work.. It will take some time and recruiting classes like we have right now to right this ship, why is it so hard to understand that we just do not have the talent on our roster that we are used to having from years past?? We have played I think like 13 or more freshmen this year alone, 3rd most in FBS.. Let's face it the cupboard is bare on both sides of the ball on The Hill, and it really shows after 4 quarters of football!!! When I played tailback we ran the wishbone LOL so it is light years ahead of what I grew up playing and watching.. It is not the coaching that is for sure IMO!!!
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Honest question. Not trying to be a smartass but do you believe we have more talent than South Alabama ?
 
#38
#38
JAEvans24 said:
Butch wants to keep the redshirts on these young freshmen and I'm sure he has a dang good reason to do it.
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Actually, I'd feel much better about it all if Butch hadn't said that he doesn't save redshirts but puts the guy out there who gives us the best chance to win. When he keeps tossing Worley out there, I feel lied to. When asked about a possible QB change at halftime yesterday, he gave a resounding, "No!" When he says that the freshmen are "one snap away", he's telling us that they only get a shot if Worley turns his ankle. All he had to do to settle me down was say: "The freshmen WILL NOT PLAY unless there is no other choice." (I know, I know... he has no obligation to "settle me down.") Anyhow, just a short rant. Really, I'm all in favor of Butch, and continue to think that year 3 is when the turnaround hits full swing, and by year 4 we're in the mix again.

Oh, and...Very nice post OP.
 
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#39
#39
Serious question: What is the advantage to not allowing one or both of the future QBs getting reps in game action? I wouldn't expect our W/L to be different with a true frosh or Worley running the offense this year and it's logical that any game experience now will only pay dividends for the future. I have trouble accepting that neither of our frosh QB's couldn't handle S. Alabama.
 
#40
#40
Didnt Saban's Bama team from last year beat ND's eyes shut and held that vaunted read option Chip Kelley offense to 14 points?

Just saying...
 
#41
#41
papatomany said:
Actually, I'd feel much better about it all if Butch hadn't said that he doesn't save redshirts but puts the guy out there who gives us the best chance to win. When he keeps tossing Worley out there, I feel lied to. When asked about a possible QB change at halftime yesterday, he gave a resounding, "No!" When he says that the freshmen are "one snap away", he's telling us that they only get a shot if Worley turns his ankle. All he had to do to settle me down was say: "The freshmen WILL NOT PLAY unless there is no other choice." (I know, I know... he has no obligation to "settle me down.") Anyhow, just a short rant. Really, I'm all in favor of Butch, and continue to think that year 3 is when the turnaround hits full swing, and by year 4 we're in the mix again.

Oh, and...Very nice post OP.
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IN Jed said:
Serious question: What is the advantage to not allowing one or both of the future QBs getting reps in game action? I wouldn't expect our W/L to be different with a true frosh or Worley running the offense this year and it's logical that any game experience now will only pay dividends for the future. I have trouble accepting that neither of our frosh QB's couldn't handle S. Alabama.
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I honestly don't know. I think it's all speculation at this point, but it could be that they simply are not ready. Whether it's a lack of grasping the playbook, strength, or mental. One of these two will be our starters in the coming year and he doesn't want to ruin them.

I know our QB play has been abysmal, but only the coaching staff can give a definitive reason. Trust me, I feel the pain. I think a good QB could have possibly won the Florida game for us.
 
#42
#42
patrick said:
Didnt Saban's Bama team from last year beat ND's eyes shut and held that vaunted read option Chip Kelley offense to 14 points?

Just saying...
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Norte Dame had a stellar defense last year. It wasn't their offense.

And I think you are confusing Chip Kelly with Brian Kelly. :hi:
 
#43
#43
oops sorry but isnt Brian Kelly running the same/similar offense as Chip Kelly both based upon the zone read - read option scheme. And isn't CBJ running the same-similar offense scheme.
 
#44
#44
But I think your breakdown of the zone read - read option offense should be well received since many do not really understand the scheme.
 
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#45
#45
patrick said:
oops sorry but isnt Brian Kelly running the same/similar offense as Chip Kelly both based upon the zone read - read option scheme. And isn't CBJ running the same-similar offense scheme.
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It's all good man. It's not completely the same, but they are similar. At Notre Dame, he moved to a bit more pro style, but with Golston he ran more read option.

I'm not saying the read option is fail safe; it's just a formidable offense when executed well.
 
#46
#46
JAEvans24 said:
It's all good man. It's not completely the same, but they are similar. At Notre Dame, he moved to a bit more pro style, but with Golston he ran more read option.

I'm not saying the read option is fail safe; it's just a formidable offense when executed well.
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I dont disagree I just favor a more conventional offense.
 
#47
#47
steino said:
Honest question. Not trying to be a smartass but do you believe we have more talent than South Alabama ?
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Yes and the better team won. I am sure thought that South Alabama is not playing walk ons in the secondary or third string d-linemen and they have a QB that fits their system.
 
#49
#49
This is no different that Rich Rod showing up in Michigan years ago. Everyone knew they were going to suck offensively that first year....it is still beyond my comprehension that a Gatorade Player of the Year in SC cannot complete a 5 yard out/curl/slant with any consistency.
 
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