Can anyone say...?

#51
#51
bleedingTNorange said:
I disagree. Recruiting is part of coaching isn't it? Now if he was like pastner recruiting good but coaching bad then ok he deserves no consideration. But he is doing what I part of rcoaching and that's recruiting, and he's doing it better than anyone in the country, I do feel he deserves some credit for that.

As I said its not call the floor coach of the year award, it's called coach of the year award, and par of coaching is recruiting. I don't like the guy but I'm being realistic.
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It is how you do on the floor. Otherwise Cal would have won every year he has been at Kentucky. He has always had the most talented roster, its what you do with it.

Being CoY is congratulating you on a good season, has nothing to do with recruiting.
 
#52
#52
UTFanForLife said:
It is how you do on the floor. Otherwise Cal would have won every year he has been at Kentucky. He has always had the most talented roster, its what you do with it.

Being CoY is congratulating you on a good season, has nothing to do with recruiting.
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As I said its just another way to look at it. I don't think cal will ever win one unless there's just noboy else, he's not well perceived outside of KY. Like I said its not the recruiter of the year, or the floor coach of the year IMO you can put both together. Cal hasn't won one because with that talent he'd honestly have to win a championship to even be considered, and even then the perception of him is so bad itd be hard.

There are many coaches who have won it though that didn't do the best coaching job in the country and were beneficiaries of having some good talent on their team.
 
#53
#53
To say COY should represent on floor coaching only is extremely myopic, and is equivalent to saying that Player of the Year should be representative of only someone's scoring average.

I didn't bring his recruiting ability up to spark debate over what the criteria should be for COY, but rather to point out the fact that the consensus is, he seems to be penalized for having the best talent, and that brings a whole different set of challenges, both on the court and off.

The most talented players are often the most difficult to mold into a "team", especially when blended in with other uber-talented players. There are only so many possessions to split up amongst guys used to being the primary focus for their team. Creating an environment that can foster and stroke that many egos for the greater good is something to consider. If he failed at that, he would be ridiculed for losing with the most talent by fans and media alike. Should he also not be rewarded for doing the opposite? Especially, in light of no clear-cut coach to challenge?

He can't do better than 16-0. It's not like there is someone else with grossly less talent banging down the door right behind them with a chance to finish 15-1, or even 14-2. It seems that people's preconceived opinions of Cal (most of which are warranted) are skewing their objectivity.

I do agree that if CCM guides a team picked to finish 11th to a 2nd place finish, he deserves consideration and probably the award. That just seems to be very far-fetched at this point. They need to win em all, and then they need some help.
 
#54
#54
Very well said. Agree 110%

Coaching is more than just x and o, it includes recruiting amongst many other things. So why when your job has multiple dimensions to it, why should the award for your job be limited to just one dimension?
 
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#55
#55
cncchris33 said:
To say COY should represent on floor coaching only is extremely myopic, and is equivalent to saying that Player of the Year should be representative of only someone's scoring average.
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your analogy doesn't work at all. Basing any coty award on recruiting would be ridiculous. If that was true then just include rivals rankings in the eval. Cal put together the #1 team in the SEC and did enough to keep them there. Nice job but all he did was what was expected. If Martin takes the #11 team in the SEC and gets them an SECT bye then he has done a better job of coaching.

Yes recruiting is part of coaching but it's should never be part of the coty evaluation
 
#56
#56
utvolpj said:
your analogy doesn't work at all. Basing any coty award on recruiting would be ridiculous. If that was true then just include rivals rankings in the eval. Cal put together the #1 team in the SEC and did enough to keep them there. Nice job but all he did was what was expected. If Martin takes the #11 team in the SEC and gets them an SECT bye then he has done a better job of coaching.

Yes recruiting is part of coaching but it's should never be part of the coty evaluation
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Your last sentence tells me that you didn't correctly comprehend anything I said in my last post.

I'll spell it out again. I'm not saying Cal should be rewarded for his recruiting success as criteria for COY. However, he shouldn't be penalized for it too. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I said his recruiting brings an entirely different set of challenges than those CCM is facing. Having the best talent doesn't equate to wins. If it did, we could just cancel the season and hand UK the trophy. Managing the super-egos and creating a team concept with a team of individuals is Cal's challenge. Those are the problems with recruiting the way he does. Martin's challenge is overcoming talent deficiencies to obtain wins. No one challenge is more important than the other. They are just different. You obviously place a higher importance on CCM's particular challenges, but that is of course, your opinion.

Also, why has Martin done a "better" coaching job? If Cal finishes undefeated, how can you do better? How do you quantify that? Again, that is merely your opinion that you are attempting to pass off as fact.
 
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#57
#57
utvolpj said:
sorry but it's not a good point at all. The coty award is not going to someone because of recruiting. It has everything to do with the product on the floor. UK is doing it there but they also started very high
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The fact that all these guys that are playing are all freshman (minus Lamb/Miller) and are used to be THE guy yet they all play unselfish and are mature way beyond their years.. and they just totally destroy people is why he's CoY. Not because he has way more talent.

You couldn't always say that for his freshmen teams.. e.g. Cousins. Pretty much the anit-Anthony Davis. Nothing has rattled this bunch.

Even though he has all that talent - no one expected them to potentially go one miracle three pointer at the last second from being undefeated when relying on so many freshmen.
 
#58
#58
It doesn't really matter anyway if you try to look at it from a non-homer perspective - cause at this point Anderson has a better "do more with less" resume than Martin to this point. They are in better shape with the NCAAT and their team is comprised of pretty much freshman, a junior, and a backup QB from the football team. They had a huge blow at the start of the season roster wise.

Martin atleast had some experience on his roster - not a whole lot - but certainly better shape than what Anderson inherited.
 
#59
#59
Bassmanbruno said:
It doesn't really matter anyway if you try to look at it from a non-homer perspective - cause at this point Anderson has a better "do more with less" resume than Martin to this point. They are in better shape with the NCAAT and their team is comprised of pretty much freshman, a junior, and a backup QB from the football team. They had a huge blow at the start of the season roster wise.

Martin atleast had some experience on his roster - not a whole lot - but certainly better shape than what Anderson inherited.
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According to espn bracketology article that was posted Arkansas shot at the tourney is about as good as ours at this point.
 
#60
#60
Well if they win out and we win out - and they could only choose 1 - Arkansas should get in over us imo... and still doesn't change the fact that Martin had a little more to work with. Anderson relies on freshman he brought in.
 
#61
#61
Bassmanbruno said:
Well if they win out and we win out - and they could only choose 1 - Arkansas should get in over us imo... and still doesn't change the fact that Martin had a little more to work with. Anderson relies on freshman he brought in.
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I don't know. Even if Arky wins out that's 1 road win for the entire season. If UT wins out they will have 4 road wins in conference play. Their records will be similar. And UT will have played a more difficult schedule, being in the East, and their RPI's will be very close. And UT killed them head to head. I got to think that adds up to UT getting the nod.
 
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#62
#62
zansdad said:
I don't know. Even if Arky wins out that's 1 road win for the entire season. If UT wins out they will have 4 road wins in conference play. Their records will be similar. And UT will have played a more difficult schedule, being in the East, and their RPI's will be very close. And UT killed them head to head. I got to think that adds up to UT getting the nod.
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thats how i see it as well.
BUT...
i think what he is saying is that with comparable results at season end, anderson would deserve more credit for his coaching job than martin.
personally i dont agree, but that is just a matter of opinion, i see where he is coming from.
 
#63
#63
Somebody has the shine out.Can we really hire Hammy back what a wonderful job he did especially hiring and great contracts were his specialty
 
#65
#65
It's most likely that:
UT will finish 8-8
Arky will finish 6-10
I doubt, either coach will be in the discussion.
 
#67
#67
Well I still stick with my statement in another thread, he does not deserve to be COTY. Am I saying he is a bad coach? Not at all.
 
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