Can Tennessee climb the ladder at all tomorrow?

[UTFranklinVol]

Butch and Dooley are the reason that recruiting to Tennessee is hard in the first place. How many..11-2 seasons did any of those buffoons have.

Yeah I mean coaching and recruiting are two different things. I'm not saying Heupel is a worse coach. I'm saying he's not a better recruiter or at least he hasn't shown it yet.

And the portal is a factor as I mentioned. Our 11-2 season was due to getting Hooker in the portal.

But Bama and others have the same access to the portal as we do so you have to look at it compared to other teams and not compared to previous years.

Every year is different, you may be getting "higher average recruits" than years past but if your opponents are still doing better than you then you won't make progress where it matters which is in the win column and the league standings compared to our rivals.

 

[sjt18]

Yeah this is all good and well. My bigger concern is CJH isn't recruiting better than any of his predecessors. UT has been pretty easily able to land a 10 to 15 class ranking since Fulmer was fired. But in that same time the same few teams in the SEC out recruit us and the same few teams finish higher than us in the standings.

Anyway I know people know this stuff. I just wonder how excited Tennessee fans are compared to how excited Bama or Georgia or Texas or LSU or a few other fans bases are.

Hopefully this year was a fluke and we have a coach that can get us to the top quickly so we start landing top 4 recruiting classes every year and Bama and Georgia start to suck again.

People say this stuff doesn't matter but it clearly does.

That's because it really doesn't. What matters is getting talent. Getting the right players to build a roster you can win with. Bama and UGA get high rankings because they've proven they can identify, sign, and play talented players... not the other way round.

What I mean by that specifically is that if the recruiting sites did not exist... UGA and Bama would still be getting elite talent and winning at a high level. What matters more what a news report says or what actually happened? That's the flaw in putting too much faith in the recruiting sites. They're reporting. They definitely want to be perceived as accurate... but they are by no stretch comprehensively "accurate". They identify a lot of good players and some great ones... but not ALL of the good/great recruits available.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

Butch and Dooley are the reason that recruiting to Tennessee is hard in the first place. How many 11-2 seasons did any of those buffoons have.

No doubt this was true but with NIL that doesn't matter anymore. We got Nico because of $$ not because of past coaches making the program look bad

 

[therickbol]

Other than the first two or three teams the recruiting is very close. 3rd or 4th through 10th are pretty much equal, just look at the average player rating. Tennessee at 14th (20 comments and a 91.37 rating) and FSU at 4th (23 comments and a 91.93 Rating) are pretty much equal.

Good luck with that. I have been trying to help posters understand that for quite some time. Many of them turn around and just run right back to screaming "We are in 6th in the SEC and such and such team is ahead of us in the team rankings. We will never catch up like this!" They don't want your context and nuances. They want that simple listed rankings to make is easier to complain. I promise you many of them would choose to see Tennessee listed #1 on the 247 Team Rankings even if it we had a lower avg player ranking and they knew many of our recruits were paper-stars like Butch would sign. They get as much satisfaction out of our "Class Ranking" as they do actual wins on the football field.

 

[sjt18]

Yeah I mean coaching and recruiting are two different things. I'm not saying Heupel is a worse coach. I'm saying he's not a better recruiter or at least he hasn't shown it yet.

That very literally cannot be known until we see how these players perform in real games. He may not be doing better. He may be doing a lot better.

One thing that comforts me a good bit in that regard is that he isn't doing it the same. This staff is "finding" more guys that the sites later bump like Leacock. They're evaluating players and going on what they believe. May or may not work... but it isn't the same.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

You don't think the most important metric is the one that compares the average projected quality of each recruit, seeing as classed will vary in size? What's more impressive? Signing 30 2-3 stars to fill a roster, or 15 3-4 stars?

Yes the averages matter but only in relation to your competitors in each given year.

We aren't trying to compete with last year's class. We are trying to compete with our competition in this year's class.

The only thing that matters is how we stack up against our competition now. Class size is not the reason Bama and Georgia and Texas and all the other SEC teams above us are ranked higher. The larger your class size, the more your class ranking should fall because there are way more 3 stars than 4 stars and way more 4 stars than 5 stars. We may be getting better, but if we aren't getting better than the teams we need to beat then what the hell does it matter?

 

[Halph66]

No doubt this was true but with NIL that doesn't matter anymore. We got Nico because of $$ not because of past coaches making the program look bad

You forget about the bags of money trading hands in the past, that put Tennessee under investigation, tied the current coaches' hands, limited our scholarships, depleted the players, gave our competition a way to negatively recruit against us. And CJH still was able to go 11-2 in his second year. We still don't have but 17 sophomores and juniors on the current team because of the past coach.

I think Tennessee will be just fine. Sustained winning solves a lot of ills.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

Good luck with that. I have been trying to help posters understand that for quite some time. Many of them turn around and just run right back to screaming "We are in 6th in the SEC and such and such team is ahead of us in the team rankings. We will never catch up like this!" They don't want your context and nuances. They want that simple listed rankings to make is easier to complain. I promise you many of them would choose to see Tennessee listed #1 on the 247 Team Rankings even if it we had a lower avg player ranking and they knew many of our recruits were paper-stars like Butch would sign. They get as much satisfaction out of our "Class Ranking" as they do actual wins on the football field.

I want Tennessee's classes to be better than Bama or Georgia. Measure it however you want by ranking or average player I don't care. But until that is true they will continue dominating the SEC and UT will not.

No matter how you slice it they finish higher in the ranking and they finish higher in the standings. Seems like a 100% correlation to me.

People getting caught up in "nuance" are just finding things to do with their spare time.

 

[17Vols]

View attachment 603268

This.

Just my advice, but I’d cross my fingers and hope we just keep all those pledged in this class, that would be a huge win. If we can score a couple more quality players in the portal, it’s an even bigger win.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yeah I mean coaching and recruiting are two different things. I'm not saying Heupel is a worse coach. I'm saying he's not a better recruiter or at least he hasn't shown it yet.

If we get banners for recruiting victories, you MAY end up having a point. If the quality of a coach's recruiting is judged by wins on the field, I suspect Heupel will prove to be the better recruiter.

 

[RyanWalkerPGH]

I want Tennessee's classes to be better than Bama or Georgia. Measure it however you want by ranking or average player I don't care. But until that is true they will continue dominating the SEC and UT will not.

You'll be happy with what Spyre and this great coaching staff provides and you will like it! Shame on you for wanting more. *Sarcasm*

 

[MarcoVol]

I want Tennessee's classes to be better than Bama or Georgia. Measure it however you want by ranking or average player I don't care. But until that is true they will continue dominating the SEC and UT will not.

And I want $100M

 

[UTFranklinVol]

You forget about the bags of money trading hands in the past, that put Tennessee under investigation, tied the current coaches' hands, limited our scholarships, depleted the players, gave our competition a way to negatively recruit against us. And CJH still was able to go 11-2 in his second year. We still don't have but 17 sophomores and juniors on the current team because of the past coach.

I think Tennessee will be just fine. Sustained winning solves a lot of ills.

Sustained winning as defined by what tho? Going 8-4 or 9-3 every year is that sustained winning? UT has done that in the past.

We need to hit that next gear where sustained winning means multiple wins in a row over Georgia and Bama (and now Texas and Oklahoma).

Again, those teams out recruit us every year and those teams finish better on the field every year. Seems like there's a strong correlation and direction this team needs to go.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

And I want $100M

You want to be the best you have to beat the best.

I don't want to finish 4th or 6th in the SEC every year.

 

[Halph66]

Good luck with that. I have been trying to help posters understand that for quite some time. Many of them turn around and just run right back to screaming "We are in 6th in the SEC and such and such team is ahead of us in the team rankings. We will never catch up like this!" They don't want your context and nuances. They want that simple listed rankings to make is easier to complain. I promise you many of them would choose to see Tennessee listed #1 on the 247 Team Rankings even if it we had a lower avg player ranking and they knew many of our recruits were paper-stars like Butch would sign. They get as much satisfaction out of our "Class Ranking" as they do actual wins on the football field.

Additionally, what about a team that has a current 5 star QB that's a Sophomore, and signs two 5 star QBs that think they can beat out the current QB, only to hit the transfer portal the next year when reality hits them. The class was awesome, but the players don't stay.

Look no further than aTm and UGA this year.

aTm had the #1 class a couple of years ago. I saw a stat that said every team that had the #1 class won the National Championship within 4 years of the #1 class. I think that was in the BCS era, but could have been in the current era. aTm's coach couldn't coach, got fired and the team is a mess. But they can claim they had the #1 recruiting class.

 

[therickbol]

I want Tennessee's classes to be better than Bama or Georgia. Measure it however you want by ranking or average player I don't care. But until that is true they will continue dominating the SEC and UT will not.

No matter how you slice it they finish higher in the ranking and they finish higher in the standings. Seems like a 100% correlation to me.

People getting caught up in "nuance" are just finding things to do with their spare time.

If that is your stand alone expectation then prepare to do lots of complaining. We need to get our classes closer to theirs so that other factors can prove effective enough to get us over the hump on the field vs them. Then if we continue to elevate our program and they stumble we could possibly catch them completely on the recruiting trail. Getting closer to their class is realistic right now. Yes we can improve from where we are at now. But we are not surpassing them right now on the recruiting trail. It's not realistic.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

If we get banners for recruiting victories, you MAY end up having a point. If the quality of a coach's recruiting is judged by wins on the field, I suspect Heupel will prove to be the better recruiter.

If we get banners in recruiting Im willing to bet we get banners on the field. Seems to hold true for the same 4-6 teams over the last 15 years.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

Additionally, what about a team that has a current 5 star QB that's a Sophomore, and signs two 5 star QBs that think they can beat out the current QB, only to hit the transfer portal the next year when reality hits them. The class was awesome, but the players don't stay.

Look no further than aTm and UGA this year.

aTm had the #1 class a couple of years ago. I saw a stat that said every team that had the #1 class won the National Championship within 4 years of the #1 class. I think that was in the BCS era, but could have been in the current era. aTm's coach couldn't coach, got fired and the team is a mess. But they can claim they had the #1 recruiting class.

TAMU is by far the outlier tho. Most teams that recruit at the top levels year after year are in the playoffs every year or a NY6 bowl at the least

 

[RyanWalkerPGH]

Sustained winning as defined by what tho? Going 8-4 or 9-3 every year is that sustained winning? UT has done that in the past.

We need to hit that next gear where sustained winning means multiple wins in a row over Georgia and Bama (and now Texas and Oklahoma).

Again, those teams out recruit us every year and those teams finish better on the field every year. Seems like there's a strong correlation and direction this team needs to go.

Exactly, if the current strategy (that a lot of people seem satisfied with) only results in 8-4, 9-3 that could be problematic. If Josh Heupel doesn't make playoff in the two-year window of Nico he'll be out of a job before long. That's the reality of the situation.

 

[Halph66]

Sustained winning as defined by what tho? Going 8-4 or 9-3 every year is that sustained winning? UT has done that in the past.

We need to hit that next gear where sustained winning means multiple wins in a row over Georgia and Bama (and now Texas and Oklahoma).

Again, those teams out recruit us every year and those teams finish better on the field every year. Seems like there's a strong correlation and direction this team needs to go.

Give the coaching staff this and one more recruiting cycle before you condemn them. The point is when they took the job there were extenuating circumstances. There are only three teams that have sustained the recruiting classes that they have for multiple years. Bama, UGA, and OSU. They win, therefore they win in the recruiting game as well.

CJH has gotten players attention. Injuries and an 17 sophomores and juniors played into this years 8-4 record. You however won't be happy until there's a #1 beside our name after signing day.

 

[MarcoVol]

Sustained winning as defined by what tho? Going 8-4 or 9-3 every year is that sustained winning? UT has done that in the past.

We need to hit that next gear where sustained winning means multiple wins in a row over Georgia and Bama (and now Texas and Oklahoma).

Again, those teams out recruit us every year and those teams finish better on the field every year. Seems like there's a strong correlation and direction this team needs to go.

You don’t have to beat them *every* year, nor will we play both every year moving forward. Just need to do enough to get into playoffs and then see what happens

 

[UTFranklinVol]

Exactly, if the current strategy (that a lot of people seem satisfied with) only results in 8-4, 9-3 that could be problematic. If Josh Heupel doesn't make playoff in the two-year window of Nico he'll be out of a job before long. That's the reality of the situation.

I keep saying that the time is now. The SEC is about to have 4 absolute monsters in it with Bama, Georgia, Texas and Oklahoma and then throw in fringe teams like LSU and Florida and we are about to go underwater in a hurry if we can't outrecruit them and stop worrying about outrecruiting last years class.

Things will go bad a lot faster now than they did in the old SEC.

 

[UTFranklinVol]

Give the coaching staff this and one more recruiting cycle before you condemn them. The point is when they took the job there were extenuating circumstances. There are only three teams that have sustained the recruiting classes that they have for multiple years. Bama, UGA, and OSU. They win, therefore they win in the recruiting game as well.

CJH has gotten players attention. Injuries and an 17 sophomores and juniors played into this years 8-4 record. You however won't be happy until there's a #1 beside our name after signing day.

I'm not condemning them. I'm just saying getting a B+ on the report card won't cut it anymore with expansion of the league.

 

[Halph66]

I keep saying that the time is now. The SEC is about to have 4 absolute monsters in it with Bama, Georgia, Texas and Oklahoma and then throw in fringe teams like LSU and Florida and we are about to go underwater in a hurry if we can't outrecruit them and stop worrying about outrecruiting last years class.

Things will go bad a lot faster now than they did in the old SEC.

You obviously have not been paying attention to what is happening at UGA and OU this cycle.

 

[MarcoVol]

Exactly, if the current strategy (that a lot of people seem satisfied with) only results in 8-4, 9-3 that could be problematic. If Josh Heupel doesn't make playoff in the two-year window of Nico he'll be out of a job before long. That's the reality of the situation.

Can’t say that’s the reality. What if we go 9-3 for two years of Nico and then Merk or GMac get us to 10 or 11 the following year or two and we’re in?

Acting like Nico is the only good QB we’ll ever have when Heup is our coach doesn’t make sense.