Can Tennessee climb the ladder at all tomorrow?

#76
#76
UTFranklinVol said:
I keep saying that the time is now. The SEC is about to have 4 absolute monsters in it with Bama, Georgia, Texas and Oklahoma and then throw in fringe teams like LSU and Florida and we are about to go underwater in a hurry if we can't outrecruit them and stop worrying about outrecruiting last years class.

Things will go bad a lot faster now than they did in the old SEC.
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Need to gain momentum and make the most of Nico. I'd be all in, chips to the middle of the table in 24' & 25'. Maybe that gives you the boost you need to recruit stronger in an enhanced SEC.
Just can't get behind this sustainability slow-building nonsense. Does anyone really care about any of that if the program fails to make the playoffs in the next 2-3?
 
#77
#77
MarcoVol said:
Can’t say that’s the reality. What if we go 9-3 for two years of Nico and then Merk or GMac get us to 10 or 11 the following year or two and we’re in?

Acting like Nico is the only good QB we’ll ever have when Heup is our coach doesn’t make sense.
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If we go 9-3 the next two seasons but miss out on the playoffs, I can about guarantee Heupel will be on the hot seat going into 2026. That's the way this works now. That doesn't mean that Merk or whoever can't have success. Just feel like now is the time to get much needed momentum.
 
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#78
#78
UTFranklinVol said:
Yes the averages matter but only in relation to your competitors in each given year.

We aren't trying to compete with last year's class. We are trying to compete with our competition in this year's class.

The only thing that matters is how we stack up against our competition now. Class size is not the reason Bama and Georgia and Texas and all the other SEC teams above us are ranked higher. The larger your class size, the more your class ranking should fall because there are way more 3 stars than 4 stars and way more 4 stars than 5 stars. We may be getting better, but if we aren't getting better than the teams we need to beat then what the hell does it matter?
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You are demanding a comparison and discounting the metric by which comparison is made. It's like demanding a yellow car while being color blind, chap.

I'll ask a question once again, and point out that the comparison about the "ladder" in your analogy has been answered.

What's better? Getting higher ranked players in a smaller class or lower ranked players in a larger class? Because if you go by the "class rankings" that you have applied as a ladder, the larger class with lower ranked players may just be a higher ranked class on star numbers alone.

See On3:
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(Why is Miami 6 and UT == 13? Because Miami is getting more highly ranked players? Nope. Because they are getting a bigger class.)

This period, there is negligible statistical difference in average recruit ranking between UT and most of the schools above us. That means that, recruit for recruit, we're getting about the same quality that they are. This indicates that, with good development, scheme and coaching, we should be able to compete with just about anybody on any given day, if this continues over time.

And that doesn't even take into account whether our staff may be better at finding talent that fits out schemes than other coaches. And that's what'll really make the most difference in a log jam of recruiting stars:

Can our coaches find the right guys for what we want to do, get them, develop them, retain them, and consistently put them in the positions to win 1x1 and as a team?

Or... We could pray for signing day banners...
 
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#79
#79
UTFranklinVol said:
If we get banners in recruiting Im willing to bet we get banners on the field. Seems to hold true for the same 4-6 teams over the last 15 years.
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You're definitely willing to bet your peace of mind on it being the only way.
 
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#80
#80
therickbol said:
Good luck with that. I have been trying to help posters understand that for quite some time. Many of them turn around and just run right back to screaming "We are in 6th in the SEC and such and such team is ahead of us in the team rankings. We will never catch up like this!" They don't want your context and nuances. They want that simple listed rankings to make is easier to complain. I promise you many of them would choose to see Tennessee listed #1 on the 247 Team Rankings even if it we had a lower avg player ranking and they knew many of our recruits were paper-stars like Butch would sign. They get as much satisfaction out of our "Class Ranking" as they do actual wins on the football field.
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Some people would just rather have 12 Yugo(s) in the driveway than 4 Chevrolets, 3 BMWs, and 2 Lamborghini(s)….Not me. Quantity vs Quality but the ranking people can do them, I will take quality everyday.
 
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#81
#81
I hope I'm wrong, but I only see a scenario if us falling. Other teans looking to add committs which will boost them up. On the other hand, we are hampered by limited scholarships and seem more interested in targeting 3 star diamond in the rough type of recruits right now.
 
#83
#83
UTFranklinVol said:
Yeah this is all good and well. My bigger concern is CJH isn't recruiting better than any of his predecessors. UT has been pretty easily able to land a 10 to 15 class ranking since Fulmer was fired. But in that same time the same few teams in the SEC out recruit us and the same few teams finish higher than us in the standings.

Anyway I know people know this stuff. I just wonder how excited Tennessee fans are compared to how excited Bama or Georgia or Texas or LSU or a few other fans bases are.

Hopefully this year was a fluke and we have a coach that can get us to the top quickly so we start landing top 4 recruiting classes every year and Bama and Georgia start to suck again.

People say this stuff doesn't matter but it clearly does.
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Don't worry we a recruiting much better than anytime in the last 15 years. Example, Butch had a couple highly rated class, problem was that all Butch cared about were stars and numbers of bodies (more recruits equal higher recruiting ranking). This year's class is far fewer in number but still highly rated. And Butch didn't give a flip about fit or character. Heup is careful to consider both, We are doing much better in recruiting than were have in a long time.
 
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#86
#86
MarcoVol said:
Can’t say that’s the reality. What if we go 9-3 for two years of Nico and then Merk or GMac get us to 10 or 11 the following year or two and we’re in?

Acting like Nico is the only good QB we’ll ever have when Heup is our coach doesn’t make sense.
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Except people have had this attitude for 15 years now. Everybody says oh in 3 or 4 years we will compete. Nobody ever says next year is THE year. Next year never comes with this program.
 
#87
#87
Christmas Ladder GIF - Christmas Ladder Fall - Discover & Share GIFs
 
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#88
#88
RyanWalkerPGH said:
Need to gain momentum and make the most of Nico. I'd be all in, chips to the middle of the table in 24' & 25'. Maybe that gives you the boost you need to recruit stronger in an enhanced SEC.
Just can't get behind this sustainability slow-building nonsense. Does anyone really care about any of that if the program fails to make the playoffs in the next 2-3?
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No it's nonsense. So many teams have proven you can turn things around immediately. Long term plans means you have no plan at all.
 
#89
#89
UTFranklinVol said:
Except people have had this attitude for 15 years now. Everybody says oh in 3 or 4 years we will compete. Nobody ever says next year is THE year. Next year never comes with this program.
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Your logic seems to be that anonymous fan predictions either produce or inhibit success on the field? WTH do fan attitudes have to do with it?
 
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#90
#90
UTFranklinVol said:
Except people have had this attitude for 15 years now. Everybody says oh in 3 or 4 years we will compete. Nobody ever says next year is THE year. Next year never comes with this program.
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Dude if they had a 12 team playoff last year we were in. Will some of y'all wake up and see we moved past the three stooges of yesteryear.

Dooley - the coach of Christmas crutches
Butch - the coach of Christmas collapse
Pruitt - the coach of Christmas McStakes
 

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#91
#91
DD4ME said:
Dude if they had a 12 team playoff last year we were in. Will some of y'all wake up and see we moved past the three stooges of yesteryear.

Dooley - the coach of Christmas crutches
Butch - the coach of Christmas collapse
Pruitt - the coach of Christmas McStakes

Redirect Notice

images.app.goo.gl
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I have to believe there are a lot of mid-day drunk posts. That is slightly less shocking a thought than other alternatives.
 
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#93
#93
Orange_Crush said:
You are demanding a comparison and discounting the metric by which comparison is made. It's like demanding a yellow car while being color blind, chap.

I'll ask a question once again, and point out that the comparison about the "ladder" in your analogy has been answered.

What's better? Getting higher ranked players in a smaller class or lower ranked players in a larger class? Because if you go by the "class rankings" that you have applied as a ladder, the larger class with lower ranked players may just be a higher ranked class on star numbers alone.

See On3:
View attachment 603294

View attachment 603295

(Why is Miami 6 and UT == 13? Because Miami is getting more highly ranked players? Nope. Because they are getting a bigger class.)

This period, there is negligible statistical difference in average recruit ranking between UT and most of the schools above us. That means that, recruit for recruit, we're getting about the same quality that they are. This indicates that, with good development, scheme and coaching, we should be able to compete with just about anybody on any given day, if this continues over time.

And that doesn't even take into account whether our staff may be better at finding talent that fits out schemes than other coaches. And that's what'll really make the most difference in a log jam of recruiting stars:

Can our coaches find the right guys for what we want to do, get them, develop them, retain them, and consistently put them in the positions to win 1x1 and as a team?

Or... We could pray for signing day banners...
Click to expand...
You are spot on. Then to clarify further, you circle back around two years latter and re-evaluate the class to get the final true measure. And folks DO NOT jump in and say look at JH class from two years ago--he did not have time to recruit that class. Last year is the one that is truly his and he was still having to fight the NCAA shroud of darkness while getting it.
 
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#94
#94
If the last 20 years have taught us anything, none of us knows how this will turn out. Good or bad. Yes, we all want Heupel to be the guy that gets us turned around, but only time will tell if he is that guy. Thinking he's the guy doesn't make him the guy. That'll play out on the field. I want another championship, dammit.
 
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#95
#95
Orange_Crush said:
You are demanding a comparison and discounting the metric by which comparison is made. It's like demanding a yellow car while being color blind, chap.

I'll ask a question once again, and point out that the comparison about the "ladder" in your analogy has been answered.

What's better? Getting higher ranked players in a smaller class or lower ranked players in a larger class? Because if you go by the "class rankings" that you have applied as a ladder, the larger class with lower ranked players may just be a higher ranked class on star numbers alone.

See On3:
View attachment 603294

View attachment 603295

(Why is Miami 6 and UT == 13? Because Miami is getting more highly ranked players? Nope. Because they are getting a bigger class.)

This period, there is negligible statistical difference in average recruit ranking between UT and most of the schools above us. That means that, recruit for recruit, we're getting about the same quality that they are. This indicates that, with good development, scheme and coaching, we should be able to compete with just about anybody on any given day, if this continues over time.

And that doesn't even take into account whether our staff may be better at finding talent that fits out schemes than other coaches. And that's what'll really make the most difference in a log jam of recruiting stars:

Can our coaches find the right guys for what we want to do, get them, develop them, retain them, and consistently put them in the positions to win 1x1 and as a team?

Or... We could pray for signing day banners...
Click to expand...
Yeah that's not how rankings work. Miami is not rated higher because they have a bigger class.

Go into Rivals pull up Miami and UT sort both classes by their ratings. Their #1 player vs our #1 player and then their #2 player vs our #2 player and so on. You will quickly see they have a stronger recruiting class. They have 7 more players committed than UT. Remove the 7 players that are rated the worst in their class and tell me that UT has them beat. Nope.

They have double the number of top 100 players that UT does and their best 2 recruit are rated higher than UTs #1 recruit.

Then if you go to the next level 100 to 250 Miami has 4 vs UTs 2

So in the top 250 players Miami has 10 and UT has 4. That is why they are ranked higher than UT. They have more top rated players. Gee go figure it's almost like that makes total sense. It has zero to do with the size of their class.

Georgia is #1 ranked and has 27 players. OSU is #2 and they only have 21 players. Texas is #3 and only has 22 players same with Alabama at 4.

Ranking are based on the players that fill the top spots in you class, not how big the class is.
 
#98
#98
Halph66 said:
Look at the number of coveted five star recruits at both that are in the TP.
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Yeah but why are they transferring? It's because there are other coveted 5 star players beating them out for a starting job.

That's a biproduct of a well run program, not a sign that they are failing. I WISH Tennessee had that problem.
 
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