Can this save the season... and more important things?

#51
#51
Offset Eye said:
Overreaction from irrational fear. Show me the data that warrants the reaction. Good grief, I have had this conversation how many times now? It's like World War Z.
Click to expand...

How about this: More Floridians are dying daily from CV19 than the #1 and #2 normal cause of deaths combined (heart disease and cancer).
 
#54
#54
golfballs said:
I got a covid test for free and I had the results the next day, on a Saturday, July 4th. Not bad
Click to expand...
That is good. The test my son and I took had results within 5 days. The health dept. told us to quarantine only if we exhibited symptoms. If we were asymptomatic and positive, we could have spread the virus to multiple groups if we were not careful. We did quarantine until we received results. Any other course would have been irresponsible to anyone we might contact.
 
#55
#55
MontyPython said:
Latest Coronavirus - Yikes
Click to expand...

Is this the same Florida where health officials are saying the numbers are inflated by as much as 30%. Where they state that the cases are steady climbing, but the mortality rates are unchanged. The one that mentions that positive rate assessment is 10X lower than first reported. The same same Florida that can't count votes due to hanging chads.

It's all in who you believe. There are as many people agreeing with you as there are that disagree. Don't hate those of us that question everything. This country has got to get back to normal life and stop this mass hysteria. There is an agenda behind all the misleading information.

Data suggest Florida's record-breaking coronavirus days may have been inflated by as much as 30%
Florida hospital admits its COVID positivity rate is 10x lower than first reported
Florida mistake on child COVID-19 rate raises question: Can Florida’s numbers be trusted?
Bombshell media report: Investigation shows inflated Florida coronavirus numbers | News Break
Florida Gov. DeSantis blames private 'testing industrial complex' for inflating positive COVID tests
Some labs weren’t reporting negative coronavirus cases, Florida health department says
 
#56
#56
aaronvol said:
I can give you a real pandemic. heart disease. And it's almost completely behavioral. Over 600,000 will die this year from heart disease in the US alone, and we continue to eat crap food with tons of sugar. That is a pandemic. Diabetes will kill over 1.7 million this year worldwide. Almost completely behavioral. Crap food with tons of sugar. Funny thing that we haven't heard a thing about getting healthy during this time. If you're healthy, Covid is so less dangerous. Also...take your zinc kids...it works.
Click to expand...
I agree with that 100%, no argument here...Some of us have issues and conditions that are wholly out of our control, yet we're in the same boat as the 60 year old slob who eats three Big Mac's a day...There's a lot of us, and that's the point.
 
#57
#57
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
I agree with that 100%, no argument here...Some of us have issues and conditions that are wholly out of our control, yet we're in the same boat as the 60 year old slob who eats three Big Mac's a day...There's a lot of us, and that's the point.
Click to expand...
And just to add on to that, I don't want to be presumptuous here, but you're a Tennessee fan and more than likely a Southerner, (Like myself) I'd venture to guess that you have someone in your family, someone you care about in your inner circle, who fits the description of not being the healthiest person in the world, or perhaps far more so...Would you want them to get seriously ill?...I'll answer that for you, you wouldn't...It's always somebody else's issue til it hits home.
 
#58
#58
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
And just to add on to that, I don't want to be presumptuous here, but you're a Tennessee fan and more than likely a Southerner, (Like myself) I'd venture to guess that you have someone in your family, someone you care about in your inner circle, who fits the description of not being the healthiest person in the world, or perhaps far more so...Would you want them to get seriously ill?...I'll answer that for you, you wouldn't...It's always somebody else's issue til it hits home.
Click to expand...

fortunately, my family is really healthy. I don't want anyone to get sick, healthy or not. But, and let's talk about this...I want people to get healthy. The pandemic in our country is not Covid, it's health. healthy people have a survival rate of .07%. I know two 80+ year olds who were healthy and got through Covid like champs. We have to make different decisions on how we live if we want to live...this has been the case in the world since the very beginning. Eat the right foods...good. Eat (drink) the wrong ones...bad.
 
#59
#59
SpookyAction said:
Re-read the article. This test doesn't exist. He is proposing one be developed to better control the spread. The author and you both agree with Bill Gates on the issue.
Bill Gates says most COVID-19 tests in the US are 'completely garbage' because it takes too long to get results
Developing this type of test and procedure was the federal plan until it was rejected at the highest level in April.

I absolutely agree with the idea and rationale of the article.
Click to expand...
I took this paragraph to say they had been created. I have actually exchanged some emails with the author to see if things can be done on a state level. I have met several people in Congress for work but have good relationships with a good many state legislators. I've interacted with our governor enough that he would recognize me by face if not name. I asked a friend who is a State Senator if there is a way to get the article to the governor. He has been resistant to the extreme responses to Covid. Not like Noem... but much better than the nutjob in NC.

I know the governor well enough to know that being the "hero" in this would appeal to him.

From the article
To do that, Mina says, everyone must be tested, every couple of days, with $1, paper-based, at-home tests that are as easy to distribute and use as a pregnancy test: wake up in the morning, add saliva or nasal mucous to a tube of chemicals, wait 15 minutes, then dip a paper strip in the tube, and read the results. Such tests are feasible—a tiny company called E25Bio, and another called Sherlock Biosciences (a start-up spun out of Harvard’s Wyss Institute for Biologically Inspired Engineering and the Broad Institute in 2019) can deliver such tests—but they have not made it to the marketplace because their sensitivity is being compared to that of PCR tests.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpookyAction
#60
#60
This is a solution that can work but the political resistance can only be broken if A LOT of us start talking it up to media and politicians. There's no way the establishment or those vested in pharma/vaccines want to see a solution like this right now.
 
#61
#61
MontyPython said:
How about this: More Floridians are dying daily from CV19 than the #1 and #2 normal cause of deaths combined (heart disease and cancer).
Click to expand...
Nope. They're not.

According to CDC, Covid is the only listed cause of death in only 6% of all reported fatalities. That appears to remain consistent from state to state. So MOST of those listed Covid deaths likely had something else is the primary cause. The last time I checked CDC's information on Covid comorbidity the average fatality had 2.5 OTHER comorbidities when they died. Various heart problems were a factor in about 50-60% of all claimed Covid deaths. Example, a person with heart condition catches a severe case of Covid and has a heart attack. You can say that Covid (like the flu is in thousands of cases each year) aggravated a heart condition... but it was the heart attack that killed the person.

Roughly 50% had some lung issue not including pneumonia and influenza. So someone with emphysema or COPD like my father in law with 15% lung capacity acquired Covid. Again, UNCOUNTED flu deaths of that type happen frequently.

Around 40% of all Covid fatalities also had pneumonia/influenza when they died. It is not possible to determine which they acquired first or which contributed most to the death. It is safe to say many would have survived just Covid without the other infections.

There are numerous comorbidities listed with lower frequency rates. But the point is that Covid isn't killing healthy Floridians absent other factors... like heart disease and cancer. In fact, it is those PRIMARY causes of death that are being aggravated by Covid resulting in death. Absent those conditions... those people do not likely die of Covid. Absent Covid... those people are still very likely to die from those conditions at some point.
 
#62
#62
sjt18 said:
Nope. They're not.

According to CDC, Covid is the only listed cause of death in only 6% of all reported fatalities. That appears to remain consistent from state to state. So MOST of those listed Covid deaths likely had something else is the primary cause. The last time I checked CDC's information on Covid comorbidity the average fatality had 2.5 OTHER comorbidities when they died. Various heart problems were a factor in about 50-60% of all claimed Covid deaths. Example, a person with heart condition catches a severe case of Covid and has a heart attack. You can say that Covid (like the flu is in thousands of cases each year) aggravated a heart condition... but it was the heart attack that killed the person.

Roughly 50% had some lung issue not including pneumonia and influenza. So someone with emphysema or COPD like my father in law with 15% lung capacity acquired Covid. Again, UNCOUNTED flu deaths of that type happen frequently.

Around 40% of all Covid fatalities also had pneumonia/influenza when they died. It is not possible to determine which they acquired first or which contributed most to the death. It is safe to say many would have survived just Covid without the other infections.

There are numerous comorbidities listed with lower frequency rates. But the point is that Covid isn't killing healthy Floridians absent other factors... like heart disease and cancer. In fact, it is those PRIMARY causes of death that are being aggravated by Covid resulting in death. Absent those conditions... those people do not likely die of Covid. Absent Covid... those people are still very likely to die from those conditions at some point.
Click to expand...

According to the Florida department of health, you are wrong.

https://www.volnation.com/forum/threads/latest-coronavirus-yikes.314776/page-2799#post-18481275
 
#63
#63
MontyPython said:
According to the Florida department of health, you are wrong.

https://www.volnation.com/forum/threads/latest-coronavirus-yikes.314776/page-2799#post-18481275
Click to expand...

What do you think proves me wrong there?

Before responding, read this

CDC Novel H1N1 Flu | CDC Estimates of 2009 H1N1 Influenza Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths in the United States

You also cannot discount the extreme political pressure to emphasize Covid in those deaths. Unless Florida has found some way to be different than the rest of the world... only about 6% of those deaths are from Covid alone. For the rest, they were in very poor health due to other causes that were very likely to result in death. I found the source for your Covid graph. The age distribution and everything else there is very consistent with other states.

The problem with your apparent point is that it does not relate back to what death totals were likely to be this year absent Covid. Using last year's number, Florida should have had around 125,300 deaths so far this year. Even if ALL of the Covid deaths were only for Covid... and people who would not have died this year otherwise due to some combination of their other problems... that is only a 6% increase. But the missing number is the actual number of deaths YTD in Florida. That's the necessary comparison.... because many of those 8000 or so would have died anyway.

If you want to extrapolate the national numbers, I found information on the CDC website on additional deaths this year. They do not make it easy but I finally found a way to filter the information to get the mid-range estimate for additional deaths over historical projections. It wasn't 160K. It was 55K. It is very safe to say that close to 100,000 of the deaths being called "Covid" would have occurred anyway.

That number appears to be dropping as Covid related deaths decrease which to me suggests that Covid accelerated the deaths of very vulnerable people by months... meaning they were counted in April instead of August.

By and large Covid is shortening lives by months or at most a few years for most people.

Consider this. The average age in the US of a Covid fatality is 78. The current US life span is 78.9. If you look at Covid's impact on average lifespan when the numbers are settled next year... that will help tell the true story. As of right now, it will have a minimal impact on that 78.9... and we are almost certain NOT to be out of range for the last several years.
 
#65
#65
sjt18 said:
What do you think proves me wrong there?

Before responding, read this

CDC Novel H1N1 Flu | CDC Estimates of 2009 H1N1 Influenza Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths in the United States

You also cannot discount the extreme political pressure to emphasize Covid in those deaths. Unless Florida has found some way to be different than the rest of the world... only about 6% of those deaths are from Covid alone. For the rest, they were in very poor health due to other causes that were very likely to result in death. I found the source for your Covid graph. The age distribution and everything else there is very consistent with other states.

The problem with your apparent point is that it does not relate back to what death totals were likely to be this year absent Covid. Using last year's number, Florida should have had around 125,300 deaths so far this year. Even if ALL of the Covid deaths were only for Covid... and people who would not have died this year otherwise due to some combination of their other problems... that is only a 6% increase. But the missing number is the actual number of deaths YTD in Florida. That's the necessary comparison.... because many of those 8000 or so would have died anyway.

If you want to extrapolate the national numbers, I found information on the CDC website on additional deaths this year. They do not make it easy but I finally found a way to filter the information to get the mid-range estimate for additional deaths over historical projections. It wasn't 160K. It was 55K. It is very safe to say that close to 100,000 of the deaths being called "Covid" would have occurred anyway.

That number appears to be dropping as Covid related deaths decrease which to me suggests that Covid accelerated the deaths of very vulnerable people by months... meaning they were counted in April instead of August.

By and large Covid is shortening lives by months or at most a few years for most people.

Consider this. The average age in the US of a Covid fatality is 78. The current US life span is 78.9. If you look at Covid's impact on average lifespan when the numbers are settled next year... that will help tell the true story. As of right now, it will have a minimal impact on that 78.9... and we are almost certain NOT to be out of range for the last several years.
Click to expand...

So, again, the data prove you wrong, Clay Travis. Period.

download.gif
 
#66
#66
MontyPython said:
So, again, the data prove you wrong, Clay Travis. Period.

View attachment 299278
Click to expand...
LOL, there is no link to the data. The data is more than a month old and came at a point when Florida had about half as many Covid related deaths as they do now. IOW's, Covid accounts for less than half the number of excess deaths reported on July 8 in Florida.

That neither proves you right or me wrong. We need the missing data and it needs to be current. Covid deaths are not likely to be greater than the total excess deaths. But your graph proves that Covid does NOT necessarily cause all excess deaths.

What does Clay Travis have to do with any of this?
 
#67
#67
sjt18 said:
LOL, there is no link to the data. The data is more than a month old and came at a point when Florida had about half as many Covid related deaths as they do now. IOW's, Covid accounts for less than half the number of excess deaths reported on July 8 in Florida.

That neither proves you right or me wrong. We need the missing data and it needs to be current. Covid deaths are not likely to be greater than the total excess deaths. But your graph proves that Covid does NOT necessarily cause all excess deaths.

What does Clay Travis have to do with any of this?
Click to expand...

eyeroll.gif
 
#68
#68
sjt18 said:
I took this paragraph to say they had been created. I have actually exchanged some emails with the author to see if things can be done on a state level. I have met several people in Congress for work but have good relationships with a good many state legislators. I've interacted with our governor enough that he would recognize me by face if not name. I asked a friend who is a State Senator if there is a way to get the article to the governor. He has been resistant to the extreme responses to Covid. Not like Noem... but much better than the nutjob in NC.

I know the governor well enough to know that being the "hero" in this would appeal to him.

From the article
Click to expand...
I pray your personal quest for this is successful. It could save thousands of lives and hundreds of thousands of work hours in this state and nation.
I hope you are not sabotaged in your effort. You can read on this forum that people will oppose you just for not feeling and speaking the same as them on a topic so important.
We all love the VOLS and I feel like a public enemy for encouraging some members to respect a dangerous viral threat. Many people see persons with my point of view as hating the VOLS, college football, America, and freedom. All of which are completely untrue. Outside of this thread, I am no longer participating the forum.
Godspeed.
 
#69
#69
sjt18 said:
LOL, there is no link to the data. The data is more than a month old and came at a point when Florida had about half as many Covid related deaths as they do now. IOW's, Covid accounts for less than half the number of excess deaths reported on July 8 in Florida.

That neither proves you right or me wrong. We need the missing data and it needs to be current. Covid deaths are not likely to be greater than the total excess deaths. But your graph proves that Covid does NOT necessarily cause all excess deaths.

What does Clay Travis have to do with any of this?
Click to expand...

The ‘excess deaths’ tally in the U.S. is 204,691 in 7 months — so COVID-19 deaths might be undercounted
 
#70
#70
MontyPython said:
The ‘excess deaths’ tally in the U.S. is 204,691 in 7 months — so COVID-19 deaths might be undercounted
Click to expand...
Did you follow his links?

I'm not sure why he did not find and use the actual table showing excess deaths. Here's a link. I admitted earlier that they do not make the data easy to manipulate. However, I have worked their website 3 different ways. One was to use their customizable charts. That yielded the 55K I referenced. This morning, I downloaded the raw data and came up with just under 140K. Closer but NOT 160K and NOT 204K. That number also includes other deaths like suicide that were due to the response.

The good thing is that CDC has at least some data available. The bad news is that they make it difficult to manipulate and you often have to "back into" numbers using percentages... that have been rounded for large numbers.

To get that difference of 139,607, I took the sum of CDC's weekly threshold for excess deaths and subtracted their "predicted number of deaths". Understandably, they do not call it a "count" of deaths per se since they have to predict error in reporting.... but even that can skew the numbers fairly significantly if someone chooses to change the assumptions.

The information came from this page:

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top