Canada bans assault-style weapons after its worst ever mass murder

You make some good points, in particular the phrase "shall not be infringed..." The Founding Fathers did believe that this was a natural right that they were affirming. That was their opinion. It might be yours or mine, but it's a fool's errand to "go there" when debating this with someone on the other side of this issue. That person very well may not be a believer in natural rights so such arguments would fall on deaf ears. You're on very shaky grounds when you invoke God because these non believers can point to all sorts of times in world history where the church has turned out to be wrong on something.

So the Convention Parliament in 1330 believed that this was a natural right. OK. So why is it illegal to carry a knife (over 3" long), let alone a gun, in today's Great Britain? I guess opinions changed in regards to natural rights. Hence my point, natural rights are like opinions, it varies from person to person.

Right to keep and bear arms - Wikipedia

I think you might be conflating a couple things, though in fairness you might just be bringing part of that argument over from others having been made. What I posted cited nothing regarding a deity not does it require the invoking of such to hold it's merit.

Setting aside the concerns of "natural law" the founders (as shown above, more detailed in Heller and elsewhere) were running with actual established law going back centuries. The codification in the 2A was to specifically preserve, not "invent" and grant some privilege. This stands on it's own. Now a very compelling argument could be made that the "natural" origin of the right is what I outlined at the beginning of my post...the concept of self-defense is intrinsic to life itself. (including animals and even plants Plant defense against herbivory - Wikipedia) And this also extends beyond individuals. Defense of home, community and State were all embedded in the 2A with actually the most overt aspect being the defense of freedom for "the people".

The Founders were coming out of literally use of arms to throw off the yokes of what had become viewed as a tyrannical government. They damned sure, by every means they could think of, wanted what came after was as insulated from becoming corrupt as they possibly could. Even knowing this at the time the founders were well aware that it is the nature of government to gather power unto itself and many in the governed to become complacent. Just one such quote from Jefferson:

They [the assembly] should look forward to a time, and that not a distant one, when a corruption in this, as in the country from which we derive our origin, will have seized the heads of government, and be spread by them through the body of the people; when they will purchase the voices of the people, and make them pay the price. Human nature is the same on every side of the Atlantic, and will be alike influenced by the same causes. The time to guard against corruption and tyranny, is before they shall have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold, than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered.

A disarmed population is one that lives at the largesse, or lack thereof, from it's government. There is no ambiguity of any sort that the founders were extremely aware of this fact.

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” Thomas Jefferson

Many quotes of similar thought are to be found from the Framers.

To your last point it is, unfortunately, all too simple. For another TJ quote:

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”

Sadly, this is often not the case with many people, where even the illusion of safety is sufficient to cede freedoms. Worse, no shortage exist that are too weak to acknowledge they ever even had freedoms preferable to risk in the first place. There's a piece by Dostoevsky called the Grand Inquisitor that had a line in it regarding such people. It's chock full of quotes regarding freedom but two that really stuck with me are:


“Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born.”

“In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: hog88
Yes, the founders definitely wanted the right to bear arms for all the reasons you mentioned and I'm glad they did. I don't think those rights can be revoked unless an Amendment is made to the Constitution, but 4 current Supreme Court justices disagree with me. Yes, we're one vote short of no longer having the right to carry a handgun. Proof of this is in McDonald vs the city of Chicago. That alone is a reason to vote Trump
 
  • Like
Reactions: azVolFan
hmmmmm now I am confused. Are you saying that closed borders work at keeping out inanimate objects (like firearms) or keeps out people that bring in those inanimate objects? If it is the former, I would need some sort of evidence that prior to border closure those inanimate objects were able to self cross said border. If it is the latter, then glad you finally see the need for a good border wall.

I'm saying the border is currently closed to "nonessential travel". I'm saying that because it is. The end.
 
Sickos who want to kill will kill. Did Bundy or Gacy ever us a gun?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bigun
You guys are misinterpreting the political compass. The x axis represents level of individual economic freedom, the y-axis level of personal liberty/freedom. This is why communist systems fall on the upper left: no economic freedom, no personal liberty/freedom. Fascism falls on the upper right because there is a stronger degree of economic freedom, but also no personal liberty/freedom. It isn't perfect, but it is a neat chart.
f88fm8jzcza31.png
 
You guys are misinterpreting the political compass. The x axis represents level of individual economic freedom, the y-axis level of personal liberty/freedom. This is why communist systems fall on the upper left: no economic freedom, no personal liberty/freedom. Fascism falls on the upper right because there is a stronger degree of economic freedom, but also no personal liberty/freedom. It isn't perfect, but it is a neat chart.
f88fm8jzcza31.png

That’s a whole lots of words just to say “center good “ and the further you get away from it , the worse it is .
 
Why use human population as the other metric? Shouldnt that be gun population or gun ownership?

As it is there is no link between the laws (metric one) and the human population per 100k in metric 2. The point they are making is about gun deaths, which is illegal in every state, so the strictness has nothing to do with the laws of that crime.

The strictness they are praising targets gun ownership, not gun deaths. They just use stastics and a weak connection to try and sell their argument.
 
Why use human population as the other metric? Shouldnt that be gun population or gun ownership?

As it is there is no link between the laws (metric one) and the human population per 100k in metric 2. The point they are making is about gun deaths, which is illegal in every state, so the strictness has nothing to do with the laws of that crime.

The strictness they are praising targets gun ownership, not gun deaths. They just use stastics and a weak connection to try and sell their argument.

PertinentUntriedHypacrosaurus-max-1mb.gif
 
What I figured no real argument. Or at least not one that doesnt depend on conflating points to flasly make an argument.

To state the obvious, a graph depicting Gun Deaths v. Number of Guns Per Capita is going to be a relatively linear relationship.

In contrast, the graph in question accurately depicts Gun Deaths v. Gun Law Strictness which has an inverse relationship. Further, per your concerns, Gun Law Strictness likely results in fewer guns per capita. Thus, the chart makes sense as is, and speaks volumes about what (most) everyone already recognizes as fact:

Stricter gun laws reduce gun deaths.
 
To state the obvious, a graph depicting Gun Deaths v. Number of Guns Per Capita is going to be a relatively linear relationship.

In contrast, the graph in question accurately depicts Gun Deaths v. Gun Law Strictness which has an inverse relationship. Further, per your concerns, Gun Law Strictness likely results in fewer guns per capita. Thus, the chart makes sense as is, and speaks volumes about what (most) everyone already recognizes as fact:

Stricter gun laws reduce gun deaths.
Those stricter laws are new. I dont remember a great many turn ins to actively reduce the numbers.

And I will need to see some type of back up to support your belief of a proportional relationship between number of guns and gun deaths.

And you have still yet to actually link the causation of gun deaths to gun ownership.

It's a pretty easy calculation to do. Number of guns in the country keeps going up, not many are being destroyed or taken from civilian hands. Gun deaths continue a general downward trend, I am sure you will mention a peak.

Depending on which number you believe there are at least 100 million privately owned guns in this country, up to 350 million. There are 40k deaths, including 25k suicides. That's 0.04% of guns kill someone, assuming only 100million guns, if every incident was a unique gun, which we know is not the case. With that type of math I find it impossible to believe gun ownership=gun deaths of almost any type of stastical weight.

What it means to me is that there has to be a BUNCH of other factors that weigh in more heavily and would be much more valid avenues to look at to address the issue. I mean really, you want to start the argument with a 0.04% hit rate? That means it would take 25 years to get to 1%.

In my books that means that gun ownership or number of guns is not the issue.
 
To state the obvious, a graph depicting Gun Deaths v. Number of Guns Per Capita is going to be a relatively linear relationship.

In contrast, the graph in question accurately depicts Gun Deaths v. Gun Law Strictness which has an inverse relationship. Further, per your concerns, Gun Law Strictness likely results in fewer guns per capita. Thus, the chart makes sense as is, and speaks volumes about what (most) everyone already recognizes as fact:

Stricter gun laws reduce gun deaths.
So you actually believe “stricter gun laws” mean fewer guns per capita? Sure you want to hitch your feelz to that?
 
To state the obvious, a graph depicting Gun Deaths v. Number of Guns Per Capita is going to be a relatively linear relationship.

In contrast, the graph in question accurately depicts Gun Deaths v. Gun Law Strictness which has an inverse relationship. Further, per your concerns, Gun Law Strictness likely results in fewer guns per capita. Thus, the chart makes sense as is, and speaks volumes about what (most) everyone already recognizes as fact:

Stricter gun laws reduce gun deaths.

Yep. Just make more laws to stay ahead of population growth in certain areas.
 
He’s off his rocker.
Chicago, NYC, Baltimore, Wash DC, LA, Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle. All have very strict gun laws. How many shootings, firearms, etc do they have compared to Knoxville, Indianapolis, Omaha total and “per capita”?

There ARE some correlations between shootings and other factors I.e gang activity and race. That is why places like Memphis, Birmingham, Charlotte, etc are so “bad” compared to other similar sized cities with similar laws.
 
Chicago, NYC, Baltimore, Wash DC, LA, Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle. All have very strict gun laws. How many shootings, firearms, etc do they have compared to Knoxville, Indianapolis, Omaha total and “per capita”?

There ARE some correlations between shootings and other factors I.e gang activity and race. That is why places like Memphis, Birmingham, Charlotte, etc are so “bad” compared to other similar sized cities with similar laws.

Any places that beg thugs to take a weekend off from shooting each other isn’t a great example of the success of more gun laws.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
Chicago, NYC, Baltimore, Wash DC, LA, Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle. All have very strict gun laws. How many shootings, firearms, etc do they have compared to Knoxville, Indianapolis, Omaha total and “per capita”?

There ARE some correlations between shootings and other factors I.e gang activity and race. That is why places like Memphis, Birmingham, Charlotte, etc are so “bad” compared to other similar sized cities with similar laws.
The second paragraph is my point. He wants to look at a 0.04% causation for his argument. When there has to be any number of other things that are more applicable.

I know we looked at mental health and mass shootings was somewhere in the double digit percentage area. Which would be hundreds if not thousands times more relevant.

Crimes and gangs would be another larger factor than ownership
 
Stormtrooper trying to get customers' attention taken down by officers

The employee, who was carrying a plastic blaster, had been trying to drum up business for the struggling restaurant, which opened two months before Canadian authorities shuttered eat-in dining because of the coronavirus, the woman’s boss, Brad Whalen, told NBC News.

The promotion occurred on “May the 4th Be With You Day,” the unofficial holiday dedicated to the film franchise. The restaurant, Coco Vanilla Galactic Cantina, is “Star Wars” themed and serves pizza and donair in the city of Lethbridge, Alberta.

The weapon was ultimately confirmed to be a fake firearm,” the statement said. The woman was not arrested, the statement added, but suffered a minor injury that didn’t require medical attention.
 
Yep. Just make more laws to stay ahead of population growth in certain areas.

I've heard criminals don't follow the law. I could be wrong.

The solution is a national effort to educate people on how to handle firearms. Increase the number of folks concealed carrying and the population would get polite, quick.
 
I've heard criminals don't follow the law. I could be wrong.

The solution is a national effort to educate people on how to handle firearms. Increase the number of folks concealed carrying and the population would get polite, quick.

I was just being a little sarcastic based on the asinine chart posted earlier.
 

VN Store



Back
Top