Cancer is a product of industrial environment

#153
#153
utgibbs said:
This is your lame, standard excuse, and I'm beginning to think it is NOT beneath you.

The data is solid.

Even suggesting poverty has not increased demonstrates completely ignoring the real world outside your back door.

If it weren't for Communist China, the numbers would be APPALLING.
Click to expand...

The worldwide poverty figures improve when you include Communist China simply because as hideous as China's poverty happens to be it is still far better than a lot of third world countries. Since China has billions of people, it weights heavily in the worldwide computation. However China's poverty level is UNBELIEVABLY APPALLING when compared to the U.S., yet you foolishly refer to China as if it were the worldwide torch bearer for a sound economy.
 
Last edited:
#154
#154
droski said:
you do realize that by american metrics that the majority of people in china would still be considered in extreme poverty right?
Click to expand...

They'd be on welfare. That would make utgibbs happy because they would be receiving the hard-earned dollars of people that aren't poverty stricken.
 
#156
#156
BigPapaVol said:
Oh shiz, food insecure. Bet we could find another meaningless, borderline idiotic term and include 30 or 40 million. Let's try it.

How about "cupboard only half full?"
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Perhaps its the type of food you always eat, especially if you still feel hungry only an hour or so later.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#157
#157
utgibbs said:
I hate to tell you this sjt, but almost everything you have written is absolutely wrong. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. It's the real world outside your backdoor.

Let's just talk about hunger in America for a moment:

5 Myths about hunger in America



We can look Feeding America and their statistics:

Hunger Report 2010



If you want to believe the mythology, it's very easy to understand why. This is unconscionable.

(I can't just stop there: Industrial Revolution did none of the things you mentioned. Sharecropping featured in my grandparents generation :facepalm: )
Click to expand...

Unlike you gibbs... I live in the real world you read about in the Washington Post from some glib inside the beltway writer who gleaned his information from an equally clueless Ivory Tower bureaucrat.

You keep talking about "out the backdoor"... but your comments reveal you live by a golf course in a gated community somewhere.

It is a MYTH that people go hungry in America for lack of ability to get food. It is a FACT that large portions of those who say they can't buy food will buy alcohol, tobacco, and/or drugs. I see them EVERY DAY.
 
#158
#158
BigPapaVol said:
Oh shiz, food insecure. Bet we could find another meaningless, borderline idiotic term and include 30 or 40 million. Let's try it.

How about "cupboard only half full?"
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Wonder if this is the same statistician who helped Obama with his uninsured number?
 
#160
#160
utgibbs said:
Incorrect.

But are you seriously trying to deny the facts of the birth of the Industrial Revolution? Are you... really?

We could go about this two ways - I can force feed you Dickens or the peer-reviewed literature? Which would you prefer?
Click to expand...

Save the links. Tell me from your perspective.

I asked in an early post how the reboot you desire would address the food system in the U.S. Start there - provide some specifics on what industrialization you would remove and what mechanimsm/systems would replace them.
 
#161
#161
Got an idea for you gibbs if you "really" care about the poor and hungry. Network with a bunch of your liberal friends, agree to live a spartan lifestyle, and give your excess to these that you claim to be so concerned about. It's great that you so compassionately "care" about the poor and hungry... It would be significantly better if you did something about it with YOUR money rather than declaring someone else should fix it.
 
#162
#162
volinbham said:
Save the links. Tell me from your perspective.

I asked in an early post how the reboot you desire would address the food system in the U.S. Start there - provide some specifics on what industrialization you would remove and what mechanimsm/systems would replace them.
Click to expand...

Thats easy. Eat less or not at all.
 
#163
#163
volinbham said:
Save the links. Tell me from your perspective.

I asked in an early post how the reboot you desire would address the food system in the U.S. Start there - provide some specifics on what industrialization you would remove and what mechanimsm/systems would replace them.
Click to expand...

If the people have no bread then utgibbs says.... "Let them eat cake"
 
#164
#164
gsvol said:
Sometimes I think giblet gravy is an ultra conservative
with a talent for presenting the idiocy of the liberal
mindset in a unique way.
Click to expand...

Yeah... he's playing with all of us. He is not serious with his beliefs. He slipped up on one of his posts that I read this morning. I saw the sarcasm in it.

Nobody is as crazy as gibbs makes himself out to be.
 
#165
#165
utgibbs said:
The Industrial Revolution DRAMATICALLY decreased quality of life over the feudal system for a damn long time. Social revolutions and scientific advancement ameliorated these excesses. Not the IR, not in any convolution of your imagination.
Click to expand...

See, he's joking with us, everybody. No one really believes this. :p
 
#166
#166
Vol423 said:
The worldwide poverty figures improve when you include Communist China simply because as hideous as China's poverty happens to be it is still far better than a lot of third world countries. Since China has billions of people, it weights heavily in the worldwide computation. However China's poverty level is UNBELIEVABLY APPALLING when compared to the U.S., yet you foolishly refer to China as if it were the worldwide torch bearer for a sound economy.
Click to expand...

Not at all.

I merely repeated Communist China had raised more people out of poverty than anyone over the last 40 years. Regardless of the size of their population, that's a fantastic achievement. Without this achievement, the world output of raising people out of poverty is atrocious.

I've never referred to China as the "torchbearer". In fact, you are far more likely to see an establishment economist do so.
 
#168
#168
sjt18 said:
Unlike you gibbs... I live in the real world you read about in the Washington Post from some glib inside the beltway writer who gleaned his information from an equally clueless Ivory Tower bureaucrat.

You keep talking about "out the backdoor"... but your comments reveal you live by a golf course in a gated community somewhere.

It is a MYTH that people go hungry in America for lack of ability to get food. It is a FACT that large portions of those who say they can't buy food will buy alcohol, tobacco, and/or drugs. I see them EVERY DAY.
Click to expand...

I post source material for your edification.

Not for mine.

I understand why you don't want to look at the real poverty in the US with a straight and manly gaze. It's appaling. It's dumbfounding. It makes you question every ideal you've ever held.
 
#169
#169
utgibbs said:
I post source material for your edification.

Not for mine.

I understand why you don't want to look at the real poverty in the US with a straight and manly gaze. It's appaling. It's dumbfounding. It makes you question every ideal you've ever held.
Click to expand...

Do you know anyone considered to be in poverty?
 
#171
#171
utgibbs said:
I understand why you don't want to look at the real poverty in the US with a straight and manly gaze. It's appaling. It's dumbfounding. It makes you question every ideal you've ever held.
Click to expand...

It makes me question whether you've ever left your house.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#173
#173
volinbham said:
Save the links. Tell me from your perspective.

I asked in an early post how the reboot you desire would address the food system in the U.S. Start there - provide some specifics on what industrialization you would remove and what mechanimsm/systems would replace them.
Click to expand...

Within my children's lifetimes (and long before they go on Social Security) we will have to address the energy imbalance in agriculture where 50 calories of inputs are required to make 1 calorie of food. We will not have make it one-to-one in their lifetimes, but it will require other choices (like, can I afford to drive my car).

You still need to get straight some things regarding "industrialization." Let's start with the most obvious food example.

We must do away with the inhumane "industrial" production of chickens, cows, and pigs. The externalities of this system should be self-explanatory. It is a product of industrialization.

Quite simply, free range must be the norm. It will mean meat is more expensive. That is fine. The modern American diet has WAY too much meat in it. In fact, free range chickens, just as an example, are more nutritous (they still have omega acids). No one who has been fortunate enough to enjoy free range meat would settle gladly for the factory farm product. Quality, in other words, replaces cheap tat.

It leads to another disconnect from industrialization - decentralization. Farmer's markets, buying eggs from the neighbor who has chickens, organiponicos, etc.

Monoculture agriculture is another form of industrialized production. This is, in a word, very stupid for everything - soil, food, water. It is good for Capital. We must move away from monoculture agriculture. You could call this "decentralizing" the agricultural genes.

I foresee a future where agricultural labor will be back in a big way. This is not a bad thing IMHO. It is a real education in the means of production.

This is the most important though:

I get the feeling you think "de-industrializing" is about getting rid of tractors and combine harversters. It has almost nothing to do with that at all. Let's look at the Amish and the Mennonites to conclude. They have a damn good system, they practice a lot of the techniques described, they have beautiful farms, and they are wealthy. Technology applied to harnessing horse and oxen power again would be the gifts of the Enlightenment applied with a new politics / a fresh non-Industrial outlook. Let's look at the Cuban model too.

The fact is, we could have gone down a similar road, using rationality, putting people ahead of profits. Instead, we get Archer Daniel Midlands as the bagmen for Watergate, and the scourge of small American farmers everywhere. Cheap tat becomes the high calorie cheese doodles and other unhealthy bunk the poor gets to eat.

If you want additional reading, by all means, pick up some Wendell Berry. He's worth reading on any subject.
 
Last edited:
#175
#175
Really wish the poor weren't forced to eat cheese doodles. No healthy foods exist that are affordable to the unwealthy.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top