Can't Coach Speed Haters!

[NEVolFan]

Going to the Waffle House...soon.

 

[sjt18]

I expected us to look much worse playing 5 top 10 teams in a row than I did western ky.

Me too. Just not "worse coached". If a kid gets outrun... I can live with that. If a guy just gets juked out of his shorts... I can live with that. If guys don't show up where they should be... on the same play over and over... that's when I get fired up.

Teaching execution really doesn't have much to do with "speed" or talent generally.

Honestly, I expected/expect more from Jones. I would like to be a fly on the wall for one of his meetings with this D staff right now.

 

[sjt18]

The same could be said for the ones who continually blame the coaches but when you take the emotion out of it and listen to what the commentators say and the "experts" on ESPN the first thing they say about UT is the lack of team speed.

If you will notice... they are rarely if ever critical of coaches. They didn't even do it with Dooley after he was a lame duck.

But why do you keep evading? Who is in denial here to protect their emotions? It isn't those of us who recognize both roster deficiencies AND some coaching issues. Generally speaking... it is those who refused to consider anything BUT roster issues.

The bottom line is the jury is still out on this staff and only time will tell if they are going to get the job done or not.

Correct. But saying that or criticizing the coaching will get you hammered by those who HAVE NOT taken the emotion out.

 

[sjt18]

I'm just trying to understand why out of all of those posters who are complaining that we have no speed, why none of them seem willing to provide any evidence (e.g. comparing our players to players on other teams).

If it is a question of "being fast vs playing the game fast", I would assume the latter is a factor of coaching and schemes.

Good post... but to your last point. It can be an issue of a player's inability to think fast... but it would be near a statistical impossibility for so many players like that to land on one roster.

FWIW, some of these guys seem determined to avoid coaching issues at all costs. I AM A FAN... and AM very worried about this defensive staff's ability to coach against the SEC.

 

[sjt18]

I don't need to try to find data to support the opinion that our d is slow.

Yes you do and plenty of fast guys do not get drafted... and often because they were hurt by a system or coaching.

If you don't think are lack of nfl talent doesn't mean we are slower, its my opinion you are dead wrong on that point.
Again, argue with the experts that agree with me and others.

How many times are you going to attempt this same straw man? Does Arkansas State have a bunch of NFL prospects on D? No one is complaining that UT's D isn't dominant. We are complaining because they are constantly out of position, don't appear to be improving, and because the gameplanning and playcalling seem very weak.

I just want to see them do the best with what they have. Getting run over by MU and AU like they were a FCS school... IS NOT getting the best out of those players.

 

[LTVol]

The OP is right. You can't coach speed. Or tackling. Or coverage assignments. Or gap responsibility. These things are inherent. We don't have any of them to the degree that a team like Arkansas State or Toledo does or else we might have kept things closer with Auburn or Missouri, like they did.

Why cant you coach tackling? Its a matter of proper body mechanics and technique, in other words, a perfect opportunity for improving through coaching.

 

[sjt18]

Why cant you coach tackling? Its a matter of proper body mechanics and technique, in other words, a perfect opportunity for improving through coaching.

He was being sarcastic. All of those things are coachable after the word "speed".

 

[volfan411]

If you will notice... they are rarely if ever critical of coaches. They didn't even do it with Dooley after he was a lame duck.

But why do you keep evading? Who is in denial here to protect their emotions? It isn't those of us who recognize both roster deficiencies AND some coaching issues. Generally speaking... it is those who refused to consider anything BUT roster issues.



Correct. But saying that or criticizing the coaching will get you hammered by those who HAVE NOT taken the emotion out.

I have never said that this is 100% a talent issue and understand there is some coaching involved. What I do not like is the ones on here calling for Jancek to be fired before he has been given a chance to coach with a full roster of capable players. I never thought Dooley would make it but did not start voicing my concerns about him until year 2 and I believe Jones deserves the same.

As I have thought about it the last couple of days I believe we are seeing the lack of depth really start to take its toll on the defense.

 

[sjt18]

I have never said that this is 100% a talent issue and understand there is some coaching involved.

You're right. Sorry about that. I lumped you in with some others unfairly. You've been pretty reasonable on it.

What I do not like is the ones on here calling for Jancek to be fired before he has been given a chance to coach with a full roster of capable players. I never thought Dooley would make it but did not start voicing my concerns about him until year 2 and I believe Jones deserves the same.

Jones I agree. But Jancek was questionable from the start. He has a history in the SEC and it isn't very good. What we are seeing now seems to support what we've seen previously.

If he can coach then he can coach. He will get guys prepared. He'll have them in position. They'll look like they aren't surprised by the other teams' base offense. There will be some creative playcalling now and again. The fundamentals will be there.

Those are things a coach can do regardless of the talent. Those are things we aren't seeing this DC do.

I've thought about it the last couple of days I believe we are seeing the lack of depth really start to take its toll on the defense.

Yet guys with talent aren't ready after 10 months? Whose fault is that? Are you seriously going to tell me that JRM could not have been coached up and making a contribution by now at LB? R Jones? M Williams?

The OC has been developing guys. The OL has disappointed but the QB's, RB's, and receivers have gotten MUCH better over the year. I can't say for sure what the DC has been doing.

 

[volfan411]

You're right. Sorry about that. I lumped you in with some others unfairly. You've been pretty reasonable on it.

Jones I agree. But Jancek was questionable from the start. He has a history in the SEC and it isn't very good. What we are seeing now seems to support what we've seen previously.

If he can coach then he can coach. He will get guys prepared. He'll have them in position. They'll look like they aren't surprised by the other teams' base offense. There will be some creative playcalling now and again. The fundamentals will be there.

Those are things a coach can do regardless of the talent. Those are things we aren't seeing this DC do.



Yet guys with talent aren't ready after 10 months? Whose fault is that? Are you seriously going to tell me that JRM could not have been coached up and making a contribution by now at LB? R Jones? M Williams?

The OC has been developing guys. The OL has disappointed but the QB's, RB's, and receivers have gotten MUCH better over the year. I can't say for sure what the DC has been doing.

Player development is on the coaches and the ones out side of Jones who could not practice for the better part of the season should be ready to play and deserve a shot as the starters are not getting it done. I hope to see some younger guys starting to contribute after this off week and the ones that did ply in mop up against Auburn seemed to play well.

 

[Spartacavolus]

You're right. Sorry about that. I lumped you in with some others unfairly. You've been pretty reasonable on it.

Jones I agree. But Jancek was questionable from the start. He has a history in the SEC and it isn't very good. What we are seeing now seems to support what we've seen previously.

3 top 10 finishes, 9+ wins/yr and an SEC championship during his tenure at Ga suggest you inform yourself before opining about having history that "isn't very good".

jumping on the jancek and willie suck train has been an easy ticket to get. Problem is most of the passengers don't know where they are going or where they have been. They just get on the train because it's the thing to do.

 

[casetopia]

the only one that leaves ME scratching my head at how we got owned is Mizzou...if you ask me Gary Pinkel deserves coach of the year with what he has done with the talent he has!

Missouri is not that good. You have to look at schedules not just won/loss records. (<cough> Ohio State)
Missouri's strength of schedule is currently #38. Which would almost seem impossible to achieve playing in the SEC. They have played exactly 1 ranked team in the current coaches poll. #11 South Carolina - And guess what? they lost. At home.

Oh and in case you are wondering TN has played 5 teams currently ranked in the Top 12 and the 4 of them in consecutive weeks.

We will learn about Mizzou when A&M comes calling. Until then I'm not buying it. I would not be surprised if
they lose this week @ Ole Miss.

And just wait until Alabama gets them in SECCG. Talk about ugly. Bama D eats freshmen Qb's for lunch.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

3 top 10 finishes, 9+ wins/yr and an SEC championship during his tenure at Ga suggest you inform yourself before opining about having history that "isn't very good".

jumping on the jancek and willie suck train has been an easy ticket to get. Problem is most of the passengers don't know where they are going or where they have been. They just get on the train because it's the thing to do.

And perhaps of interest to you, is that all of that was accomplished with a less than stellar defense... which is why he and Martinez were fired. If they would have had a decent defense during those years, they would have had 5+ top 10 finishes, 11+ wins per year, and quite possibly more than one SEC Championship.

UGA surrendered 30+ points 15 times during the period Jancek and Martinez were there. By comparison, they only surrendered 30+ points 1 time from 2001 through 2004. In fact, their last two years they gave up 37 points or more eight times.

You may want to become a "little more informed" yourself before judging others.

 

[TGVol]

What is a speed hater?

Our defensive coaches or players.

 

[sjt18]

3 top 10 finishes, 9+ wins/yr and an SEC championship during his tenure at Ga suggest you inform yourself before opining about having history that "isn't very good".

Wow. You've embarrassed yourself here. He was in the same position he's in now (sort of) for one year. UGA won 8 games that year and he was fired. His D in his one year as "co-defensive coordinator" allowed the most points of any UGA D since at least 1945 AND the most ppg.

In his time at UGA, their D went from allowing a total of 213 points in a season to 229 to 262 to 319 to 337 in the year he was DC.

By definition, that "isn't very good".

jumping on the jancek and willie suck train has been an easy ticket to get. Problem is most of the passengers don't know where they are going or where they have been. They just get on the train because it's the thing to do.

I thought better of you than this. If you can't win the debate start an argument and throw stones at your opponent, right?

I am on no "train". I think for myself now just as I did before. I have great concerns about the DC.

 

[Spartacavolus]

And 2 years prior they were #8 and #12, I believe, in total d or points per game. You don't get to choose to discard good years for your agenda. Slick Willy was also blamed for OK getting lit up and here they are 2 years later getting lit up again. GA still sucks on D. Did Grantham forget how to coach?
Football is a cycle. Every coach has good and bad years. You can't name me 2 college DC's that don't have bad years. No pro DC is good every year.
Your problem continues to be tunnelvision. And no more management lessons please. As a company owner in a highly competitve market, I disagree with many things you have said in regards to managing people and business.

 

[sjt18]

And 2 years prior they were #8 and #12, I believe, in total d or points per game. You don't get to choose to discard good years for your agenda.

I didn't discard anything. I started with the first year he was there and ended with the year he was fired. They went from allowing 16.4 ppg to the highest point total UGA has given up in a season in the last 70 years... It was a steady and steep decline. He obviously wasn't the whole problem but he was not the solution either.

Slick Willy was also blamed for OK getting lit up and here they are 2 years later getting lit up again. GA still sucks on D. Did Grantham forget how to coach?

Do you really think that claiming that Grantham isn't great helps your case? That's called a "non sequitur".

Every coach has good and bad years. You can't name me 2 college DC's that don't have bad years. No pro DC is good every year.

Agreed. What was Jancek's "good" year when you adjust for competition? He avg'd allowing 30 ppg vs ranked opponents at Cincy. Overall he allowed 26 ppg vs FBS schools with a winning record.

Another interesting tidbit I ran across. In 2010 when Cincy was 4-8 under Jones and crew, they played 10 FBS schools that finished with a winning record. In '11, they played 5. In '12, they played 4. How much of their success was due to Cincy improving and how much due to the schedule getting much weaker?

I seriously... SERIOUSLY doubt the competition in the SEC is going to accommodate them like that.

Your problem continues to be tunnelvision.

LOL@U. I have tunnel vision? I have acknowledged there are talent deficiencies but have not closed my eyes to some pretty obvious coaching deficiencies on D. You on the other hand refuse to see anything but the simpleton answer "no talent".

And no more management lessons please. As a company owner in a highly competitve market, I disagree with many things you have said in regards to managing people and business.

Keep all the low performers around you want. There are positive managers out there who won't... and you'll eventually pay a price. I'm not giving you lessons... you obviously think you know all you need to know. But history does not favor "luck"... and it would take PURE luck to not demand a high standard consistently and get a high performing team.

 

[volfan411]

Went back and looked at Janceks time at Cincinnati and here are the numbers. These are national rankings for total defense:

2009 13th season before Jancek arrived
2010 50th first season as Co-DC
2011 55th second season as Co-DC
2012 34th first season as DC
2013 36th not there but still should get credit for players on roster

These numbers offer a mixed review as when he first arrived there was a big drop off but the defense did improve while he was there. I did not look at graduation or draft picks during his time there.

 

[volfan411]

I am not sure it is fair to judge a coach of his performance at one school and would hope that no coach would be labeled a failure off of one stop in their career.

I have been a supporter of Jancek and still am today but college coaches are judged off of results and at this point we are not seeing results on the field. I have went back and looked at his career and he is a outstanding recruiter and for that reason alone he will be given another season as I think he should get. I believe if we do not see results next season Jones will be forced to go in another direction and at that point he should be in position to hire who ever he wants.

I say the same about Dooley he failed here but that does not mean he is a failure as a coach and he should get another chance down the road and a good coach would take from his shortcomings here and improve on them and make himself a better coach.

 

[sjt18]

I respect that 411... but you need to look at my post above. In Jancek's first year at Cincy, he faced 10 FBS teams that finished with a winning season. The next... 5. The last... only 4. In that light, his first season was probably the most impressive.

 

[volfan411]

I respect that 411... but you need to look at my post above. In Jancek's first year at Cincy, he faced 10 FBS teams that finished with a winning season. The next... 5. The last... only 4. In that light, his first season was probably the most impressive.

Yeah I did not dig that deep into it and that explains the big drop off in his first and the improvement the next 2.

 

[majic73]

You can coach technique and good habbits. Our defense is slow, but they are also horrendous at the fundamentals of defense. Line up right, take the right first step at the snap, get off blocks, take good angles, wrap up. We don't do hardly any of those things right. Add in the fact that every player looks like they are running in quick sand, and you have the makings of a blowout every time you face a competent team. Jancek needs to get this figured out.

yes you can coach technique . You can scheme for leverage . You scheme to be deceptive .

I agree with that

I want you to go and look at all of out blowouts now...with the exception of Bama, The defense played good football for the first 1 and 1/2 quarters

This should tell you something.

There is no depth , especially on the front. There is no rotation. There are guys playing 70-90 snaps a game. Have you ever heard of a modern football team keeping pace with top notch teams that does not have a 3 deep? We do not even have a 2 deep. Most onlookers noticed the fall off from unit 1 to unit 2 in the AP game. The fatigue of the front leads to the secondary being in coverage for 5 or 6 seconds . Any secondary would break down . This is not to mention that the depth behind the secondary is awful ..and or freshmen.

This is easy stuff guys . Football 101. The D has no depth . This is irrefutable. Big DL and LBs do not persevere with that many snaps. This is irrefutable. They play solid D until they get fatigued ....and anybody that has watched football and maybe even played a team sport , knows that the grind of this gets worse as the season wears on. At this point in the season , many of our defenders have played 1 to 2 more games than their ranked opponents snaps-wise.

People have to stop with the short sided nonsense.