Can't Coach Speed Haters!

#126
#126
checkerboards09 said:
Apparently they've been reading VN. The speed excuse is the dumbest one yet to date.
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Then debate it with guys like Andy Kelly, or keslings color man who has seen 4 decades of UT teams, or ainge, or swain, or Ligon, or Kent, or any other former UT players or longtime followers that discuss the lack of speed on their shows.
Though I guess those that have played college ball or been following UT longer than many on here have been alive know less than ecoaches that never coached or played.
That's the vn way.
 
#127
#127
Spartacavolus said:
Then debate it with guys like Andy Kelly, or keslings color man who has seen 4 decades of UT teams, or ainge, or swain, or Ligon, or Kent, or any other former UT players or longtime followers that discuss the lack of speed on their shows.
Though I guess those that have played college ball or been following UT longer than many on here have been alive know less than ecoaches that never coached or played.
That's the vn way.
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It is not just the local guys but the national guys say it to. There was a reporter on this week who covers Auburn who said on the radio that he would be surprised if UT could stay within 21 points of Auburn. He said Auburn would have to play its worst game of the season for UT to have a chance.

Everyone outside of a very few posters on VN can see it.
 
#128
#128
Sparty, wouldn't you agree that good coaching speeds up a defense? Teams field much better defenses than this with much slower athletes all of the time. I don't know how much you need to see to realize that these guys are not getting properly coached up.

Also, it's funny that we have all of these people with some derivative of "Dooley" in their username defending this staff. They have such sterling track records of estimating coaching acumen.
 
#129
#129
Spartacavolus said:
Then debate it with guys like Andy Kelly, or keslings color man who has seen 4 decades of UT teams, or ainge, or swain, or Ligon, or Kent, or any other former UT players or longtime followers that discuss the lack of speed on their shows.
Though I guess those that have played college ball or been following UT longer than many on here have been alive know less than ecoaches that never coached or played.
That's the vn way.
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Those guys aren't going to go negative on a coach in year 1. Or year 2 for that matter.
 
#130
#130
Spartacavolus said:
Auburns qb ran for over 200 yards on backyard qb keepers. Basically, give it to the fastest kid and watch everybody try to tackle him. Did you not watch him run by and around us all day and have more breakaway runs in one day than our 4.3 Neal has had in 4 years?
What type of proof are you looking before other than what you can see with your own eyes?
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Very simple... you stated in another post that shuttle speed was a better example of football speed than 40 speeds. The same data is available on the same websites I visited. How about putting together the same comparisons as I did instead of continuing to suggest that your football vision is better than mine.
 
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#132
#132
Good posts in this thread, btw. Some dumb stuff sprinkled in but good discussion. I also liked the stj18 post, oregon, and he and I are sworn enemies.
 
#134
#134
volfan411 said:
Explain the national media then.
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I don't care what anyone says. I have eyes and have watched football since 1988. Team is poorly coached. Lane discipline and the like are extremely lacking. Busted coverages are rampant. Tackling is poor. LBs and safeties misread a majority of plays. McCullers is playing worse. etc.

Media always defends coaches and act all offended when there is coaching turnover. Have you ever heard one of them say that getting rid of Fulmer was the right call? I haven't. Yet it was inarguably true. The man had won his last championship. And that's what this is about.
 
#135
#135
WesternKyVol said:
Sparty, wouldn't you agree that good coaching speeds up a defense? Teams field much better defenses than this with much slower athletes all of the time. I don't know how much you need to see to realize that these guys are not getting properly coached up.

Also, it's funny that we have all of these people with some derivative of "Dooley" in their username defending this staff. They have such sterling track records of estimating coaching acumen.
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I agree that good coaching can speed up the defense but we have seen these same players make the same mistakes for 2 seasons and I refuse to believe they are being coached that way. I was adamant that Sunseri and his staff were the worst ever and now I am not sure it was all on the staff.
 
#136
#136
WesternKyVol said:
Sparty, wouldn't you agree that good coaching speeds up a defense? Teams field much better defenses than this with much slower athletes all of the time. I don't know how much you need to see to realize that these guys are not getting properly coached up.

Also, it's funny that we have all of these people with some derivative of "Dooley" in their username defending this staff. They have such sterling track records of estimating coaching acumen.
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Sure good coaching speeds up defenses. Some players are probably still thinking too much as they try to read, which makes them a step slower. If you are a step slower, you have already screwed up your angle. If your angle is screwed up and you are slow, you are toast.
Having little or no nfl prospects compared to several tends to make coaches look better too. Nfl is about speed and they dont want any UT defensive players right now.
As for the Dooley comment, who cares. You can pat yourself on the back with the hypocritical dip****s at the other place.
 
#137
#137
volfan411 said:
I agree that good coaching can speed up the defense but we have seen these same players make the same mistakes for 2 seasons and I refuse to believe they are being coached that way. I was adamant that Sunseri and his staff were the worst ever and now I am not sure it was all on the staff.
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These are players that Ga Tech, North Carolina, Va Tech, Ole Miss, Miss St, Okl. St, Baylor and the like all wanted. That level. Some are supposedly better( AJ, McNeill, Smith, McCullers, Coleman) I agree that they aren't elite athletes but they aren't as terrible as they have shown.

I am excited about the class we are bringing in. But if we bring in all that talent and do not coach them up we've done nothing but replicate the last 7 years of the Fulmer era. I want more.
 
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#138
#138
Spartacavolus said:
Sure good coaching speeds up defenses. Some players are probably still thinking too much as they try to read, which makes them a step slower. If you are a step slower, you have already screwed up your angle. If your angle is screwed up and you are slow, you are toast.
Having little or no nfl prospects compared to several tends to make coaches look better too. Nfl is about speed and they dont want any UT defensive players right now.
As for the Dooley comment, who cares. You can pat yourself on the back with the hypocritical dip****s at the other place.
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I don't post much over there anymore. Probably a half dozen times since the end of September. Mainly becasue of the way they treated you. Got sick of it.
 
#139
#139
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Very simple... you stated in another post that shuttle speed was a better example of football speed than 40 speeds. The same data is available on the same websites I visited. How about putting together the same comparisons as I did instead of continuing to suggest that your football vision is better than mine.
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I don't need to try to find data to support the opinion that our d is slow. When we have multiple draft picks and I am saying we are slow, call me out.
I don't recall debating with you before, so I don't know how much football you do or don't know. If you don't think are lack of nfl talent doesn't mean we are slower, its my opinion you are dead wrong on that point.
Again, argue with the experts that agree with me and others.
 
#140
#140
WesternKyVol said:
I don't post much over there anymore. Probably a half dozen times since the end of September. Mainly becasue of the way they treated you. Got sick of it.
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I've enjoyed all the debates here today. Fact is there are a multitude of problems and we are all sick of losing. Acting like its only speed, only coaching, or only angles is silly.
 
#141
#141
Spartacavolus said:
I don't need to try to find data to support the opinion that our d is slow. When we have multiple draft picks and I am saying we are slow, call me out.
I don't recall debating with you before, so I don't know how much football you do or don't know. If you don't think are lack of nfl talent doesn't mean we are slower, its my opinion you are dead wrong on that point.
Again, argue with the experts that agree with me and others.
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NFL talent is a great point. How many who started for UT on defense yesterday will get drafted.

My guess is 1 and that is Cam Sutton. I believe several will get shots as free agents.
 
#144
#144
Spartacavolus said:
I don't need to try to find data to support the opinion that our d is slow. When we have multiple draft picks and I am saying we are slow, call me out.
I don't recall debating with you before, so I don't know how much football you do or don't know. If you don't think are lack of nfl talent doesn't mean we are slower, its my opinion you are dead wrong on that point.
Again, argue with the experts that agree with me and others.
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The fact that you are willing to throw out statements like you have, but not be willing to back them up... even when you asked me what I was looking for as proof... is disappointing Sparty. Next time don't ask if you're not willing to answer. And to answer your question... I played football for over 12 years, and have also coached, so I am more than comfortable with my football IQ.

Regarding your argument about players being drafted into the NFL, I hope you realize how ludicrous of an example that is. Essentially you are saying that players (pure talent) makes the difference and not coaching. And yet... iirc Vanderbilt beat us 41 - 18 last year. Just so you won't have to look it up, here are the players that were drafted from each team. Yep... they sure did have more NFL talent than we did.

UT.JPG

Vandy.JPG
 
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#145
#145
Ask anyone that knows anything about football if their SEC defense will be better with 7 nfl draft picks or zero. Your debate is ridiculous and brings doubt that you played a down. If you did, you were on the field where you or a teammate totally outclassed an opponent, or you had an opponent that ran over and around you all night and there wasn't a thing you could do about it.
There are 31 players in the nfl from the bama/lsu game from 2 years ago. I'll use that as an example of the type of players it takes to play championship level ball, including all the nfl players we had on our own NC team, versus your example with a lame duck coach who happens to be one of the worst hires in college football history with one of the worst defenses in UT history with one defensive player taken in the last 3 years. We will have one, maybe 2, taken in the next 3 years. That's 6 years with 3 total defensive players taken in the draft.
That I have to explain the consequences of an SEC defense having only 3 draft picks over a 6 year span is a joke.
 
#146
#146
Man Sparty... you're arguments are all over the place.

First you said we lacked speed, and I provided data that showed our speed was equal to others.

You said we lacked shuttle speed, and apparently can tell that with your "football vision" as you are unwilling to provide any data to back it up even though I pointed you to the information.

Then you make the argument to just look at players that have been drafted into the NFL as the key difference, and I provided an example between UT and Vandy to dispute that.

And now you come up with this... "Ask anyone that knows anything about football if their SEC defense will be better with 7 nfl draft picks or zero"? Well, you've finally said something I can agree with... though I have no idea what it has to do with the previous posts.

But you follow it up with an example of the 31 Bama/LSU players in the NFL. Bama just finished beating LSU by 21 points. Do you think that might have had anything to do with coaching?

I don't know why you can't admit that the team on the field Saturday was out coached. It happens.
 
#148
#148
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Man Sparty... you're arguments are all over the place.

First you said we lacked speed, and I provided data that showed our speed was equal to others.

You said we lacked shuttle speed, and apparently can tell that with your "football vision" as you are unwilling to provide any data to back it up even though I pointed you to the information.

Then you make the argument to just look at players that have been drafted into the NFL as the key difference, and I provided an example between UT and Vandy to dispute that.

And now you come up with this... "Ask anyone that knows anything about football if their SEC defense will be better with 7 nfl draft picks or zero"? Well, you've finally said something I can agree with... though I have no idea what it has to do with the previous posts.

But you follow it up with an example of the 31 Bama/LSU players in the NFL. Bama just finished beating LSU by 21 points. Do you think that might have had anything to do with coaching?

I don't know why you can't admit that the team on the field Saturday was out coached. It happens.
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-I know we lack speed and that you continue to debate that fact and support your debate with 40 times from 4-5 years ago is a freaking joke.
-I said shuttle speed is a better measurement of football speed than the 40, particularly for the front 7
-bull****. I said our d would be better with 7 nfl players vs none and bamas would be worse with none than 7. That's such a simple and common sense statement that it's amazing you can't decifer. You decide to pick one game with a team that beat us for the 3rd time in 30 years as an example to refute. Just so happens Vanderbilt will have more defensive players taken in the draft over the 6yr span I mentioned, but it would be a waste of time for me to point out. Just so happens our best defensive units and most successful teams had 20 defensive draft picks over a 5 yr span, but I guess that means they just took great angles and overcompensated for their lack of instinct and speed.
-you contradicted yourself.
-Saban is possibly the best college coach of all time, so yes, coaching is always a factor with his teams. Turnovers, including dropping the ball on the goalline were pretty big factors as well. He also got beat by Sumlin last year. I guess that means Sumlin is better and Saban can't teach angles anymore because Manziel has lit his ass up 2 years in a row?
-I never said the team wasn't outcoached. Post it if I did. I'll ban myself.

It's quite evident, specifically with your last statement, that the reason you think I'm all over the place is because you can not only no follow basic common sense, but you can't even keep track of my stance correctly. Pulling something out of thin air to try and boost your argument doesn't fly. I'm fully aware of what's happening on the field and why, which are a multitude of reasons. Imo, you aren't quite there.
 
#149
#149
Spartacavolus said:
-I know we lack speed and that you continue to debate that fact and support your debate with 40 times from 4-5 years ago is a freaking joke.
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4-5 years ago??? Many of the players are freshmen and sophomores, but feel free to make stuff up if it helps your argument. But either way... the source was the same for both teams I provided, so statistically there would be no difference.

Spartacavolus said:
-I said shuttle speed is a better measurement of football speed than the 40, particularly for the front 7
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And you are unwilling to provide any proof that UT's shuttle speed is any less than other comparable teams, even though you say we are slower. So in other words... you have an opinion and nothing more, but you believe your opinion is more valuable than others.

Spartacavolus said:
-bull****. I said our d would be better with 7 nfl players vs none and bamas would be worse with none than 7. That's such a simple and common sense statement that it's amazing you can't decifer. You decide to pick one game with a team that beat us for the 3rd time in 30 years as an example to refute. Just so happens Vanderbilt will have more defensive players taken in the draft over the 6yr span I mentioned, but it would be a waste of time for me to point out. Just so happens our best defensive units and most successful teams had 20 defensive draft picks over a 5 yr span, but I guess that means they just took great angles and overcompensated for their lack of instinct and speed.
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You said this... "Having little or no nfl prospects compared to several tends to make coaches look better too." and this "I don't need to try to find data to support the opinion that our d is slow. When we have multiple draft picks and I am saying we are slow, call me out." ... and I did call you out. We had multiples of draft picks over Vandy and they kicked our butts, and it sure as hell "didn't make our coaches look better".

Spartacavolus said:
-you contradicted yourself.
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No I didn't.

Spartacavolus said:
-Saban is possibly the best college coach of all time, so yes, coaching is always a factor with his teams. Turnovers, including dropping the ball on the goalline were pretty big factors as well. He also got beat by Sumlin last year. I guess that means Sumlin is better and Saban can't teach angles anymore because Manziel has lit his ass up 2 years in a row?
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Spartacavolus said:
-I never said the team wasn't outcoached. Post it if I did. I'll ban myself.
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And I never stated that you said that, but keep making stuff up. Post it if I did. I'll ban myself.

Spartacavolus said:
It's quite evident, specifically with your last statement, that the reason you think I'm all over the place is because you can not only no follow basic common sense, but you can't even keep track of my stance correctly. Pulling something out of thin air to try and boost your argument doesn't fly. I'm fully aware of what's happening on the field and why, which are a multitude of reasons. Imo, you aren't quite there.
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Your bolded statement above is laughable considering how many times, just in a single post, you actually misquoted me and/or made stuff up.

Have a good night Sparty. :hi:
 
#150
#150
Exactly. Some of the fans seem to be brain dead. Tennessee is in such a s*** hole and it's going to take 2-3 years of solid recruiting to get us back. Saban went 5-7 first year at Bama and look at him now. Let Butch get his own players here. Hell, the few freshman he got in his short time here last season may be the best on the team.
 
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