Capitalism or Socialism, Two Enemies Face Each Other in the Final Battle!!!

[OrangeEmpire]

I was just wondering what you guys and gals thought: which is better, capitalism or socialism?

Is it a little of column A and column B?

I think the only way for capitalism to remain even remotely fair is to have a little bit, not a whole lot by a longshot, but just a little bit of socialism. I MEAN SMALL. The generous component, not the "I'm from the government and I'm forcing you to give to the have-nots" kind.

National Socialism on the other hand, that can go straight to he double hockey sticks. So can hyper-capitalism for that matter.

Capitalism even by itself beats pure socialism, I think.

The extreme argument:

"Why should the government steal my money and waste it on social programs that I don't approve of?

Exactly. Why should you pay for anything that I like or vice versa? Like art. I like art a lot, some of it I love, but on the other hand, why should anyone have their money effectively stolen to make someone else entertained?

Also a whacked priority when some people don't have enough to eat and can't afford their medicine. Government: "Aww, that's too bad,..let's pay for splotches on a canvass."

Or do you prefer freedom to choose?

Free To Choose

 

[TennNC]

Also a whacked priority when some people don't have enough to eat and can't afford their medicine. Government: "Aww, that's too bad,..let's pay for splotches on a canvass."
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I see what you're saying, but let's be honest. If we're really talking about wasting money that could be better spent on food and health care, let's look at where most govt money s being spent - defense contractors. I covered this on Capitol Hill for 3 years, and I'm not talking about the troops or benefits or vets or actual weapons and machinery that the military uses. I'm talking about hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on things like a missile defense system that won't ever be used. Or on fleets that won't ever be used. There's so much the DOD can't even count it. But these expenditures keep on coming b/c it's a way to keep politicians happy and re-elected, all under the guise of "protecting our freedoms" and "supporting the troops."

So if we're going to cut the spit in the ocean for the arts, let's first cut just a portion of the sea that's wasted on defense contractors.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I see what you're saying, but let's be honest. If we're really talking about wasting money that could be better spent on food and health care, let's look at where most govt money s being spent - defense contractors. I covered this on Capitol Hill for 3 years, and I'm not talking about the troops or benefits or vets or actual weapons and machinery that the military uses. I'm talking about hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on things like a missile defense system that won't ever be used. Or on fleets that won't ever be used. There's so much the DOD can't even count it. But these expenditures keep on coming b/c it's a way to keep politicians happy and re-elected, all under the guise of "protecting our freedoms" and "supporting the troops."

So if we're going to cut the spit in the ocean for the arts, let's first cut just a portion of the sea that's wasted on defense contractors.

Wow, government accountability across the board....what a concept.........

:thumbsup:

 

[JTrainDavis]

No Clintonian "Liberals" on the board want to make the case for Socialism??

 

[vader]

Jesus was a Socialist hippy.

Discuss.

 

[emainvol]

No Clintonian "Liberals" on the board want to make the case for Socialism??

I certainly hope that by "Clintonian" you are talking Hillary. Bill Clinton is in NO WAY a liberal.

If you disagree, please find me proof.

 

[JTrainDavis]

I certainly hope that by "Clintonian" you are talking Hillary. Bill Clinton is in NO WAY a liberal.

Sir, I beg to differ. He balanced the budget by crippling the Military (Speaking in terms of the Army alone, we went from 3 Combat-Ready Armored Divisions to 1.

As a way to "Balance" the budget, Clinton established new programs (most of which fed money into the welfare system) that would grow in funding as they matured...AFTER the "Great Appeaser" was out of office.

Way to go, Willie, you Kow Towed to the militant Islamists, Hung Israel out to dry, made nicey-nice with (the now FORMER, thank goodness) President of (Hopefully now resurgent, anti-terror) France, smiled and shrugged when the Sudanse Government had Bin Laden (How about that Darfur mess, liberals, your buddy might well have prevented it).

I won't go on. Bill Clinton is about as respectable to me as the crap out of Osama Bin Laden's mountain horse.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Jesus was a Socialist hippy.

Discuss.

caring for the less fortunate, yes. skirting the rules and /or laws, no.

 

[volinbham]

So if we're going to cut the spit in the ocean for the arts, let's first cut just a portion of the sea that's wasted on defense contractors.

I'm with OE and you on this one, government accountability is the way to go. Waste is high and it is motivated by the quest for position and power among our elected leaders.

The old guns or butter argument falls short in that less spending on guns doesn't translate into more spending on butter. To make this modern day, the billions going to Iraq wouldn't necessarily being going somewhere else. If they were, it probably wouldn't be to the places with greatest need.

Flaws of the system but still a good system.

 

[volinbham]

Jesus was a Socialist hippy.

Discuss.

Due to our concerns with the separation of church and state, Jesus cannot be discussed in conjunction with government policies.

Further, the use of the word "hippy" is disparging to a minority group.

Any further requests for such discussion will result in an immediate injunction filed by the ACLU.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Tenn_Vol_Authority]

This is a moot point. Socialism will be the philosophy supported by more Americans by 2020. The schools in this country and the media will sway more and more people towards the darkside of collectivism.

Capitalism is on borrowed time. But I mainly blame capitalists for its downfall because they have not set a good example of how capitalism can benefit society, nor have they done a good job of selling and promoting the idea.

 

[emainvol]

Sir, I beg to differ. He balanced the budget by crippling the Military (Speaking in terms of the Army alone, we went from 3 Combat-Ready Armored Divisions to 1.

As a way to "Balance" the budget, Clinton established new programs (most of which fed money into the welfare system) that would grow in funding as they matured...AFTER the "Great Appeaser" was out of office.

Way to go, Willie, you Kow Towed to the militant Islamists, Hung Israel out to dry, made nicey-nice with (the now FORMER, thank goodness) President of (Hopefully now resurgent, anti-terror) France, smiled and shrugged when the Sudanse Government had Bin Laden (How about that Darfur mess, liberals, your buddy might well have prevented it).

I won't go on. Bill Clinton is about as respectable to me as the crap out of Osama Bin Laden's mountain horse.

Sir, I beg to differ

Hear The Issues - Political Articles and Commentary: Bill Clinton and Military Funding

now how did you jump to your conclusions?

 

[emainvol]

Sir, I beg to differ. He balanced the budget by crippling the Military (Speaking in terms of the Army alone, we went from 3 Combat-Ready Armored Divisions to 1.

As a way to "Balance" the budget, Clinton established new programs (most of which fed money into the welfare system) that would grow in funding as they matured...AFTER the "Great Appeaser" was out of office.

Way to go, Willie, you Kow Towed to the militant Islamists, Hung Israel out to dry, made nicey-nice with (the now FORMER, thank goodness) President of (Hopefully now resurgent, anti-terror) France, smiled and shrugged when the Sudanse Government had Bin Laden (How about that Darfur mess, liberals, your buddy might well have prevented it).

I won't go on. Bill Clinton is about as respectable to me as the crap out of Osama Bin Laden's mountain horse.

please, if you are going to feed me Sean Hannity's bs I won't even bother arguing with you.

 

[KentheOrange]

I see what you're saying, but let's be honest. If we're really talking about wasting money that could be better spent on food and health care, let's look at where most govt money s being spent - defense contractors. I covered this on Capitol Hill for 3 years, and I'm not talking about the troops or benefits or vets or actual weapons and machinery that the military uses. I'm talking about hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on things like a missile defense system that won't ever be used. Or on fleets that won't ever be used. There's so much the DOD can't even count it. But these expenditures keep on coming b/c it's a way to keep politicians happy and re-elected, all under the guise of "protecting our freedoms" and "supporting the troops."

So if we're going to cut the spit in the ocean for the arts, let's first cut just a portion of the sea that's wasted on defense contractors.

I see no problem with that. The fact that we have spent so much money on them could be the reason they go unused until they are obsolete. I do see a problem with dumping operational supplies so your budget isn't cut the following year.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Hang on, your argument is that Clinton was not liberal in his leanings?

:crazy:

 

[emainvol]

Hang on, your argument is that Clinton was not liberal in his leanings?

:crazy:

My argument was that Clinton was not a liberal, which he wasn't, he was a moderate. He was liberal on some issues.

 

[TennNC]

The old guns or butter argument falls short in that less spending on guns doesn't translate into more spending on butter. To make this modern day, the billions going to Iraq wouldn't necessarily being going somewhere else. If they were, it probably wouldn't be to the places with greatest need.

Well, we pay for everything, so we'll pay for all of this in one way or another, and the more we pay for stuff like this, the less that gets to people in need, whether it's through government or through private sources.

 

[TennNC]

I see no problem with that. The fact that we have spent so much money on them could be the reason they go unused until they are obsolete.

That might have been the argument decades ago, but I highly doubt that politicians today are asking for more money for unused weapons in order to avoid engaging in conflict. We're talking about fat beyond fat here. We're so far ahead of everyone else, that we could cut back big-time and still have a military many times bigger and more powerful than the next closest country.

The real reason it continues is money and power, period. And it's waste, and it's corporate welfare. There, I said it.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

My argument was that Clinton was not a liberal, which he wasn't, he was a moderate. He was liberal on some issues.

I can live with that..........k:

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I wonder what would happen it the government completely cut out welfare, HUD, social security, medicare, etc.....what would our country look like?

For that matter what if the Federal government was not as strong as it is now and the states had the right to govern themeselves.

 

[TennNC]

I wonder what would happen it the government completely cut out welfare, HUD, social security, medicare, etc.....what would our country look like?

Probably not a pretty place to live. I think that type of society would've had to develop from the beginning. To cut it now would be pretty chaotic and ugly.

[/QUOTE] For that matter what if the Federal government was not as strong as it is now and the states had the right to govern themeselves.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Maybe like the former Soviet states?

On many issues states' rights probably are a good thing. But we depend on each other for so much stuff, I think it's a good thing to have common agreement in the form of a federal government.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Wow, you really think it break down like the Soviet Union?

There should be a centralized government, I guess we would disagree on the limit of its power.

 

[TennNC]

Wow, you really think it break down like the Soviet Union?

There should be a centralized government, I guess we would disagree on the limit of its power.

On the first point, maybe not, but I wouldn't want to see what would happen. Things are pretty darn good as they are, overall, and in many areas getting better.

On the second, depending on the issue, I probably favor less government than you think. I think we have an obligation to give people a chance to better themselves and to protect people from harm. And I don't think government should intrude in social issues or matters of personal freedom. Legislating morality by nature seems intrusive.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

On the first point, maybe not, but I wouldn't want to see what would happen. Things are pretty darn good as they are, overall, and in many areas getting better.

On the second, depending on the issue, I probably favor less government than you think. I think we have an obligation to give people a chance to better themselves and to protect people from harm. And I don't think government should intrude in social issues or matters of personal freedom. Legislating morality by nature seems intrusive.

Agree 100%

:thumbsup:

 

[TennNC]

Agree 100%

:thumbsup:

cool.