China, Russia sign bln-dlr nuclear deal: official

#27
#27
Vol Mania 21 said:
Right after 9/11 happened my best friend said that one of the top mentors/teachers at W.P. said that it would take up to 20 yrs to get rid of the terrorists. Due to them being spread out. He told me this within a year of 9/11 happening.
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what is a top mentor / teacher at West Point? I don't know who that might be.
 
#28
#28
UT IE 95 said:
There are terriorists all over the world, not just Iraq. So why not go to war with everyone, including ourselves, if that's the justification.
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Why not just withdraw and then watch the country go to hell (and yes it can get worse)... I'm not dragging this debate out, but you know perfectly well why Iraq was invaded. I'm not for sitting on our hands and doing nothing, that what happened in the '90's.
 
#29
#29
volsforever27 said:
Why not just withdraw and then watch the country go to hell (and yes it can get worse)... I'm not dragging this debate out, but you know perfectly well why Iraq was invaded. I'm not for sitting on our hands and doing nothing, that what happened in the '90's.
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First, I do know why it was invaded and I supported the effort to eliminate a government that supported Osama and had WMD's. Neither of which panned out. Now were just occupying a country for really no reason. We can leave and let natural order sort things out.

Second, I agree we don't need to sit around and do nothing. But doing the wrong thing is just like doing nothing. And Iraq is the wrong thing.
 
#30
#30
UT IE 95 said:
First, I do know why it was invaded and I supported the effort to eliminate a government that supported Osama and had WMD's. Neither of which panned out. Now were just occupying a country for really no reason. We can leave and let natural order sort things out.
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I'll give you the WMD argument...it was easy to believe that one...but I was never able to believe that there was a real Iraq/Bin-Laden connection.
 
#31
#31
UT IE 95 said:
There are terriorists all over the world, not just Iraq. So why not go to war with everyone, including ourselves, if that's the justification.
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Iraq help fund Al Qaeda, this is getting ridiculous. So would you say that the troops are wrong when they say that we should be there?
 
#33
#33
TennTradition said:
I'll give you the WMD argument...it was easy to believe that one...but I was never able to believe that there was a real Iraq/Bin-Laden connection.
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there wasn't a connection in that Hussein and Bin Laden were pictured spooning, but Hussein's willingness to support terrorism and Bin Laden's search for allies of convenience are pretty well established.
 
#34
#34
Vol Mania 21 said:
how would i know his name? I just remember my buddy telling me about it while he was at west point.
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I'm asking about the position, not the name. Might help provide some validity to the comment.

If it was made by dude's tactical officer, it's radically different than the Supe, Dean or Commandant making the comment.

Sounds hokie to me, so I asked for some clarification since I know a little about the school.
 
#35
#35
MG1968 said:
there wasn't a connection in that Hussein and Bin Laden were pictured spooning, but Hussein's willingness to support terrorism and Bin Laden's search for allies of convenience are pretty well established.
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There were obviously closer ties between Afghanistan and Sudan and Bin Laden than Iraq and Bin Laden. Also, I'm not sure that Hussein had shown a willingness to support terrorism on US soil either..but maybe there was...I certainly haven't read everything there is to read on the subject. Also, Bush said that he wouldn't draw a distinction between the terrorists and governments that harbored them (I think that is the right wording...from his speech right after 9-11). I don't think Hussein really fit that bill....he was a mean j/a that didn't mind killing those who got in his way and would terrorize minorities in his country...I'm not sure how much he sponsored terrorism against us, though. I'm glad he's not in power anymore...but not necessarily because of any possible Iraq/Bin-Laden connection.
 
#36
#36
UT IE 95 said:
First, I do know why it was invaded and I supported the effort to eliminate a government that supported Osama and had WMD's. Neither of which panned out. Now were just occupying a country for really no reason. We can leave and let natural order sort things out.

Second, I agree we don't need to sit around and do nothing. But doing the wrong thing is just like doing nothing. And Iraq is the wrong thing.
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Leaving is the wrong thing, period. That place will turn into a bigger terrorist breeding ground if we leave, and a bigger threat in general. That's asnine.
 
#38
#38
BigPapaVol said:
I'm asking about the position, not the name. Might help provide some validity to the comment.

If it was made by dude's tactical officer, it's radically different than the Supe, Dean or Commandant making the comment.

Sounds hokie to me, so I asked for some clarification since I know a little about the school.
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i'll ask him when he gets back from his honeymoon. i can't remember exactly so i don't want to say what i think he was. i'll ask him. all i do remember was he was a high ranking officer. no hokie at all, but i understand where you're coming from
 
#39
#39
TennTradition said:
There were obviously closer ties between Afghanistan and Sudan and Bin Laden than Iraq and Bin Laden. Also, I'm not sure that Hussein had shown a willingness to support terrorism on US soil either..but maybe there was...I certainly haven't read everything there is to read on the subject. Also, Bush said that he wouldn't draw a distinction between the terrorists and governments that harbored them (I think that is the right wording...from his speech right after 9-11). I don't think Hussein really fit that bill....he was a mean j/a that didn't mind killing those who got in his way and would terrorize minorities in his country...I'm not sure how much he sponsored terrorism against us, though. I'm glad he's not in power anymore...but not necessarily because of any possible Iraq/Bin-Laden connection.
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I think the connection is with Al-Quaida, not with Bin Laden per se. Also, there's a book by Jayna Davis (the name of it escapes me) that says a person fromt he Iraqi military helped with the OKC bombing... I need to read it again, it's been so long sinece I have I forget all the important details. Anyways, check it out, if what she says is true (and she does have some interesting proof), then Iraq was indeed a threat. Also, it came out years before the war, so it's not a justification for going in there.
 
#40
#40
volsforever27 said:
Leaving is the wrong thing, period. That place will turn into a bigger terrorist breeding ground if we leave, and a bigger threat in general. That's asnine.
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So we were supposed to fear Iraq as a huge terrorist threat to the US when we invaded them. We find out that was false and although Sadam was an evil dictator they were not supporting Osama - and actually told him "no" to a request for support.

Now we are supposed to fear leaving Iraq because it will turn into what we thought it was before we invaded them?

Now that's jacked up thinking.
 
#41
#41
UT IE 95 said:
So we were supposed to fear Iraq as a huge terrorist threat to the US when we invaded them. We find out that was false and although Sadam was an evil dictator they were not supporting Osama - and actually told him "no" to a request for support.

Now we are supposed to fear leaving Iraq because it will turn into what we thought it was before we invaded them?

Now that's jacked up thinking.
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I personally believe the arguments that it will become a hotbed for terrorism a lot more than I ever bought the arguments that it already was a hotbed (pre-invasion). The place has no order...and terrorists love a political vacuum, I'm sure....it's easy to hide and do whatever you want as long as local leaders will protect you (read: Osama in the mountains between Afghanistan/Pakistan).
 
#42
#42
UT IE 95 said:
So we were supposed to fear Iraq as a huge terrorist threat to the US when we invaded them. We find out that was false and although Sadam was an evil dictator they were not supporting Osama - and actually told him "no" to a request for support.

Now we are supposed to fear leaving Iraq because it will turn into what we thought it was before we invaded them?

Now that's jacked up thinking.
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Salman Pak

Salman Pak - Iraq Special Weapons Facilities

raq told UN inspectors that Salman Pak was an anti-terror training camp for Iraqi special forces. However, two defectors from Iraqi intelligence stated that they had worked for several years at the secret Iraqi government camp, which had trained Islamic terrorists in rotations of five or six months since 1995. Training activities including simulated hijackings carried out in an airplane fuselage [said to be a Boeing 707] at the camp. The camp is divided into distinct sections. On one side of the camp young, Iraqis who were members of Fedayeen Saddam are trained in espionage, assassination techniques and sabotage. The Islamic militants trained on the other side of the camp, in an area separated by a small lake, trees and barbed wire. The militants reportedly spent time training, usually in groups of five or six, around the fuselage of the airplane. There were rarely more than 40 or 50 Islamic radicals in the camp at one time.
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#45
#45
UT IE 95 said:
You do know it was determined that Salman Pak was in fact an ANTI-terrorism camp.
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did you read the linked article? You must not have, which is why I provided the quote from it. You didn't read that either.
 
#47
#47
MG1968 said:
did you read the linked article? You must not have, which is why I provided the quote from it. You didn't read that either.
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I read it. Then promptly searched for more information and turned up this:

Sabah Khodada was a captain in the Iraqi army from 1982 to 1992. He worked at what he describes as a highly secret terrorist training camp at Salman Pak (see Khodada's hand-drawn map of the camp), an area south of Baghdad. In this translated interview, conducted in association with The New York Times on Oct. 14, 2001, Khodada describes what went on at Salman Pak, including details on training hijackers. He emigrated to the U.S. in May 2001.

Editor's Note, November 2005: More than two years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, there has been no verification of Khodada's account of the activities at Salman Pak. In fact, U.S. officials have now concluded that Salman Pak was most likely used to train Iraqi counter-terrorism units in anti-hijacking techniques. It should also be noted that he and other defectors interviewed for this report were brought to FRONTLINE's attention by the Iraqi National Congress (INC), a dissident organization that was working to overthrow Saddam Hussein. Since the original broadcast, Khodada has not publicly addressed questions that have been raised about his account of activities at Salman Pak.
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PBS - frontline: gunning for saddam: interviews: sabah khodada
 
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