China Thread

#3,626
#3,626
SpaceCoastVol said:
Tariffs are absolutely the right idea. And I would look Tim Cook right in the eye and tell him that they are aimed straight at him and any other multi billion American corporation that does the majority of their manufacturing in CHINA. It isn't China that is the problem here. It is American companies doing business IN China. Make it painful enough for them to leave and China will back off. Guaranteed.

How many people will pay $2K for an iPhone?
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Disagree.

I railed against Trump in the early days for his tariff reindeer games, and nothing has changed. It’s a fool’s game.

Beat them in the free market. Make it more appealing for American Business to bring supply chains back closer to home.
 
#3,627
#3,627
China has been preparing for war with the US for DECADES and is racing ahead - while our Army 'takes gender pronoun classes', claims Nikki Haley

Republican presidential hopeful Nikki Haley aired concerns on Sunday as she suggested China 'has been preparing for war' with the United States, noting how it has been building up its military in recent years.

Haley, the former US ambassador to the United Nations, explained while China had been expanding its military presence, by comparison, the US has been complacent.

She outlined a like-for-like comparison of the two countries military noting how China had the world's largest naval fleet, with the U.S. firmly in second place.

'If you look at the military situation, they now have the largest naval fleet in the world,' Haley said to Fox News.

'They have 340 ships, we have 293. They're going to have 400 In two years, we won't even have 350 in two decades. They have started developing hypersonic missiles. We're just now getting started.'

72773319-12256939-Members_of_the_Chinese_Navy_stand_on_the_deck_of_the_guided_miss-m-2_1688342711086.jpg

Members of the Chinese Navy stand on the deck of the guided-missile destroyer Suzhou

Haley pointed out that China's military advances seems to occur in direct contrast to the rise of 'woke culture' within the US military.

China been preparing for war with US for DECADES racing ahead while Army takes gender pronoun class | Daily Mail Online
 
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#3,628
#3,628
Franklin Pierce said:
China has been preparing for war with the US for DECADES and is racing ahead - while our Army 'takes gender pronoun classes', claims Nikki Haley

Republican presidential hopeful Nikki Haley aired concerns on Sunday as she suggested China 'has been preparing for war' with the United States, noting how it has been building up its military in recent years.

Haley, the former US ambassador to the United Nations, explained while China had been expanding its military presence, by comparison, the US has been complacent.

She outlined a like-for-like comparison of the two countries military noting how China had the world's largest naval fleet, with the U.S. firmly in second place.

'If you look at the military situation, they now have the largest naval fleet in the world,' Haley said to Fox News.

'They have 340 ships, we have 293. They're going to have 400 In two years, we won't even have 350 in two decades. They have started developing hypersonic missiles. We're just now getting started.'

72773319-12256939-Members_of_the_Chinese_Navy_stand_on_the_deck_of_the_guided_miss-m-2_1688342711086.jpg

Members of the Chinese Navy stand on the deck of the guided-missile destroyer Suzhou

Haley pointed out that China's military advances seems to occur in direct contrast to the rise of 'woke culture' within the US military.

China been preparing for war with US for DECADES racing ahead while Army takes gender pronoun class | Daily Mail Online
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China’s Navy is “bigger”, but it isn’t better.
The hypersonics comment is misleading.

But DEI has absolutely no place in the US Military. She’s dead on there.
 
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#3,629
#3,629
85SugarVol said:
Disagree.

I railed against Trump in the early days for his tariff reindeer games, and nothing has changed. It’s a fool’s game.

Beat them in the free market. Make it more appealing for American Business to bring supply chains back closer to home.
Click to expand...
Would that require a reduction in American wages?
 
#3,631
#3,631
85SugarVol said:
It would require a lot. Wages could be a viable lever.

Taxation
Regulation
Sourcing
Labor

I imagine all could come into play.
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I guess the operative question is, "who will pay?"
Edit: I assume it will be the American consumer. That may be a good or bad thing, but it would be a reckoning.
 
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#3,632
#3,632
clarksvol00 said:
I guess the operative question is, "who will pay?"
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For sure.

But it’s about the bottom line. Apple isn’t going to take less profits to make it happen. Nor should they.

They might pay more in labor. But if transportation and sourcing goes down? Taxation and regulatory compliance goes down? Could net out.
 
#3,633
#3,633
85SugarVol said:
For sure.

But it’s about the bottom line. Apple isn’t going to take less profits to make it happen. Nor should they.

They might pay more in labor. But if transportation and sourcing goes down? Taxation and regulatory compliance goes down? Could net out.
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I really don't think there is a universe where a tariff makes the cost to produce an iPhone (that americans would pay for) in the US becomes cheaper to produce one in China. Keep in mind they'd have to pay for building the infrastructure and training the labor to produce them in addition to dealing with wages and other costs.
 
#3,634
#3,634
clarksvol00 said:
I really don't think there is a universe where a tariff makes the cost to produce an iPhone (that americans would pay for) in the US becomes cheaper to produce one in China. Keep in mind they'd have to pay for building the infrastructure and training the labor to produce them in addition to dealing with wages and other costs.
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I think we’re crossed up. I’m 100% against tariffs.
 
#3,635
#3,635
clarksvol00 said:
Not to defend the Chinese, but if they aren't making our iPhone, who will? American workers aren't going to make an iPhone that is less than $2000?

Edit: and are you sure Americans wouldn't pay $2000 for an iphone?
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Vietnam, Philippines, India, Haiti. There is plenty of cheap labor on the planet to go around. And you are probably right about people paying $2K for an iphone. P.T. Barnum pops into my head.
 
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#3,636
#3,636
85SugarVol said:
Disagree.

I railed against Trump in the early days for his tariff reindeer games, and nothing has changed. It’s a fool’s game.

Beat them in the free market. Make it more appealing for American Business to bring supply chains back closer to home.
Click to expand...
We can't. To say we can compete on labor is ludicrous. You're like Huff in that you want your cheap **** no matter the real cost.
 
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#3,637
#3,637
SpaceCoastVol said:
We can't. To say we can compete on labor is ludicrous. You're like Huff in that you want your cheap **** no matter the real cost.
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There are more levers to be pulled than simply labor. Transportation, Sourcing, Taxes, Regs, etc.

And who says moving labor out of China means moving it here? That’s a pretty simplistic view.
 
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#3,638
#3,638
SpaceCoastVol said:
Vietnam, Philippines, India, Haiti. There is plenty of cheap labor on the planet to go around. And you are probably right about people paying $2K for an iphone. P.T. Barnum pops into my head.
Click to expand...
Somebody will have to invest in the infrastructure and training the labor in the countries you mentioned. I'm not sure leaving China is going to be cost effective.
 
#3,639
#3,639
clarksvol00 said:
Somebody will have to invest in the infrastructure and training the labor in the countries you mentioned. I'm not sure leaving China is going to be cost effective.
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There would certainly be a payback period associated with new plants and training.

But we’re not talking semiconductor plants here. Right?
 
#3,641
#3,641
clarksvol00 said:
Don't know. Not sure where we get our semiconductors.
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We get em from Taiwan. Still would.

All I was saying is it has to be easier to set up a new iPhone shop than it is to set up a new Semiconductor shop. But there would certainly be costs involved.
 
#3,643
#3,643
85SugarVol said:
Isn’t it over 2000 miles from Vladivostok to the Arctic Circle?

Seizing that city wouldn’t make them an Arctic Nation. Not even close. Would take a massive land grab to close the gap.
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Yeah, Vladivostok is still a long way from the Arctic ... especially for a "near Artic" country. The "near Arctic" claim is in line with a country that's too big for it's britches. The other thing even if they took Vladivostok is something pointed out in the YouTube discussion. The port is still covered up by a chain of islands - some Japanese and some Russian.

That's an interesting point about Eastern Asia and a large part of Europe. Countries have ports that are often bounded by other nations or bottlenecked access - the Baltic, the Med, The E Asian Coast, significant parts of the European Atlantic coastline. Africa, N and S America, the Indian side of Asia, and Australia tend to have good naval access with limited places for nearby enemy bases. Our position and the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans as good strategic barriers without ever considering how a chain of "barrier islands" like those along the Chinese coast make a difference. I suppose if I were running China - a largely landlocked country with risky sea access and poor agricultural prospects for a huge population, I'd probably try to make peace with the world in general instead of being an overall PITA.
 
#3,644
#3,644
clarksvol00 said:
Would that require a reduction in American wages?
Click to expand...

Look at it another way. You can employ fewer people at higher wages, and those fewer people pay higher taxes to pay for the people who aren't working, or you can put more people to work at lower wages and get off the socialist/welfare state that eats up salaries of those who do work. To me it's always been about how to reach the fine line where too much automation keeps people from employment and some loss in efficiency to keep people working. This is where I think corporations and schools of business miss the boat by concentrating too much on efficiency and missing the part about being stewards. "What does it profit if you gain the whole world but lose your soul?" ... or the county's soul?

The goal isn't make work jobs, but taking jobs away from your own and giving them to others or to automation isn't very smart policy either. We'd have far fewer societal problems if we were a productive nation again and people actually had to work to survive.
 
#3,645
#3,645
clarksvol00 said:
I guess the operative question is, "who will pay?"
Edit: I assume it will be the American consumer. That may be a good or bad thing, but it would be a reckoning.
Click to expand...

We're paying a lot in many ways because a significant part of the US population isn't working, and the fact is that people who are working are the ones paying the tab.
 
#3,647
#3,647
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