Chris Jones. PG

#26
#26
It's been said already, but I would not be surprised that Forbes and Jones is a package deal to D1.
 
#27
#27
johnnybravo said:
You bring in Sydney if you have a program that you can control. Ask Calipari. Cousin's had just as much baggage and probably much worse disposition. We can't ask Stansbury anything since he couldn't contol, motivate, or coach his team.

So since you don't take a 2 year guy are you saying we should pass on the JUCO Fabyon Harris?

Just because you have multiple players playing the same position doesn't mean we are LOADED. If they are all average to below average talent then you upgrade and cut the dead weight.
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From what i heard many players attributed losses From that team to chemistry, directly connected to cousins. So yea Calipari controlled him, but only to an extent he was still a cancer. Also, calipari has proven he doesn't mind going after those guys, has ccm proven that yet?

No what im saying is I doubt he wants to sign a juco in the 13' class, it's one less HS player he could sign in that class. He is in on some top talent in that class and at positions that are in much more dire need than PG. As I said Fabyon at PG is equivalent to Pierre Jackson, if you think that's below average well I'm sorry.

Exactly upgrade. With Harris at pg I'd say we are about a B+ or an A at PG. meanwhile positions 3,4 & 5 are all positions that right now wouldn't grade out that high. So those are your positions of need, thus the reason he going hard after hubbs, king, Nichols, ringer and kingsley among others. If you think for a second he'd prefer jones over anyone of those guys then once again I'm sorry.

Chris Jones is a great talent, but when you factor in that if we land Harris he's not that much of an upgrade PLUS it'll be his first year here and Harris' second. Also, that we only have do many scholarships and ccm would rather use them on the hs kids he's after in 2013 than a juco pg who we already have one of(and a good one). And the fact that I think ccm would prefer not to bring him here after everything that happened and would prefer to cut ties.

If we miss on Fabyon and don't sign anyone else then maybe, but I still don't see it. And that was my whole original point, I'd prefer Fabyon this year and next over jones 13&14.
 
#28
#28
Shaun1985 said:
Maybe it's just me but I don't look at Jones as a high quality kid like Stokes or anything Kentucky gets. He don't make or break a program IMO. We already have a good guard that has been learning the system who's going to be a SR and then we have 2 more guys coming in behind him. Granted, a couple of those guys could slide to the 2 spot, including the man running the show but I highly doubt it.
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This.

With golden here and Landry in 13 and hopefully Fabyon in 12&13, it makes no sense to me to bring in jones. 4 scholarships on PG, when your biggest weakness would be other positions at that point.
 
#29
#29
bleedingTNorange said:
From what i heard many players attributed losses From that team to chemistry, directly connected to cousins. So yea Calipari controlled him, but only to an extent he was still a cancer. Also, calipari has proven he doesn't mind going after those guys, has ccm proven that yet?

No what im saying is I doubt he wants to sign a juco in the 13' class, it's one less HS player he could sign in that class. He is in on some top talent in that class and at positions that are in much more dire need than PG. As I said Fabyon at PG is equivalent to Pierre Jackson, if you think that's below average well I'm sorry.

Exactly upgrade. With Harris at pg I'd say we are about a B+ or an A at PG. meanwhile positions 3,4 & 5 are all positions that right now wouldn't grade out that high. So those are your positions of need, thus the reason he going hard after hubbs, king, Nichols, ringer and kingsley among others. If you think for a second he'd prefer jones over anyone of those guys then once again I'm sorry.

Chris Jones is a great talent, but when you factor in that if we land Harris he's not that much of an upgrade PLUS it'll be his first year here and Harris' second. Also, that we only have do many scholarships and ccm would rather use them on the hs kids he's after in 2013 than a juco pg who we already have one of(and a good one). And the fact that I think ccm would prefer not to bring him here after everything that happened and would prefer to cut ties.

If we miss on Fabyon and don't sign anyone else then maybe, but I still don't see it. And that was my whole original point, I'd prefer Fabyon this year and next over jones 13&14.
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I doubt we land Fabyon unless CCM guarantees him a starting spot and moves Golden to the 2. I don't think that's in CCM character to do that to sign a kid. Why would Fabyon come to UT with a high possibility of backing up Golden for 2 years? If Golden was going into his Senior year the odds go up considerably of landing him, but not going into his Junior year.
 
#30
#30
johnnybravo said:
I doubt we land Fabyon unless CCM guarantees him a starting spot and moves Golden to the 2. I don't think that's in CCM character to do that to sign a kid. Why would Fabyon come to UT with a high possibility of backing up Golden for 2 years? If Golden was going into his Senior year the odds go up considerably of landing him, but not going into his Junior year.
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The same could be said about jones, he'll have started 2 years in juco he's gonna wanna start at d1 too.

Golden will be a senior, and as you said ccm won't promise him a spot in 14' over Landry and any other PG we may sign in the 14' class like Richmond who were in on strong.

With that said in not necessarily agreeing just saying it works both ways what you're saying. I could see CCM saying if you come here you'll compete with golden and will have a good chane of strting at PG with a strong showing because of traes natural position being the 2.
 
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#31
#31
bleedingTNorange said:
From what i heard many players attributed losses From that team to chemistry, directly connected to cousins. So yea Calipari controlled him, but only to an extent he was still a cancer. Also, calipari has proven he doesn't mind going after those guys, has ccm proven that yet?

No what im saying is I doubt he wants to sign a juco in the 13' class, it's one less HS player he could sign in that class. He is in on some top talent in that class and at positions that are in much more dire need than PG. As I said Fabyon at PG is equivalent to Pierre Jackson, if you think that's below average well I'm sorry.

Exactly upgrade. With Harris at pg I'd say we are about a B+ or an A at PG. meanwhile positions 3,4 & 5 are all positions that right now wouldn't grade out that high. So those are your positions of need, thus the reason he going hard after hubbs, king, Nichols, ringer and kingsley among others. If you think for a second he'd prefer jones over anyone of those guys then once again I'm sorry.

Chris Jones is a great talent, but when you factor in that if we land Harris he's not that much of an upgrade PLUS it'll be his first year here and Harris' second. Also, that we only have do many scholarships and ccm would rather use them on the hs kids he's after in 2013 than a juco pg who we already have one of(and a good one). And the fact that I think ccm would prefer not to bring him here after everything that happened and would prefer to cut ties.

If we miss on Fabyon and don't sign anyone else then maybe, but I still don't see it. And that was my whole original point, I'd prefer Fabyon this year and next over jones 13&14.
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Which of the 3 loses do you think Cousins was directly connected to?
 
#32
#32
johnnybravo said:
Which of the 3 loses do you think Cousins was directly connected to?
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Directly? Probably 0

As I said I've heard he was a cancer and many fel the chemistry wasn't there for the NCAA championship run. TIFWIW

As I also said, cal has proven he doesn't mind going after those guys, and many times they listen better because they know 1 year and hell put them in the leage. Has CCM shown to do either of those 2 things?
 
#33
#33
bleedingTNorange said:
The same could be said about jones, he'll have started 2 years in juco he's gonna wanna start at d1 too.

Golden will be a senior, and as you said ccm won't promise him a spot in 14' over Landry and any other PG we may sign in the 14' class like Richmond who were in on strong.

With that said in not necessarily agreeing just saying it works both ways what you're saying. I could see CCM saying if you come here you'll compete with golden and will have a good chane of strting at PG with a strong showing because of traes natural position being the 2.
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I really don't think Jones would worry about beating out a player with the talent level as Landry. That's not a knock on Landry at all. Just Jones with 2 years of JUCO experience will be far better and more prepared for the D1 level than Landry. I would think that Jones would probably expect to have to back Trae up his Senior year. My point is though Jones will be a much better pg than anyone we will have on the team and if you can somehow get him, then you take him. UT will not get him though so really not an issue. We wish we could have though once he's in D1.
 
#34
#34
bleedingTNorange said:
Directly? Probably 0

As I said I've heard he was a cancer and many fel the chemistry wasn't there for the NCAA championship run. TIFWIW

As I also said, cal has proven he doesn't mind going after those guys, and many times they listen better because they know 1 year and hell put them in the leage. Has CCM shown to do either of those 2 things?
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It wasn't "Cousin's being a cancer" that kept them from going any further in the tourney, it was poor coaching that allowed a cold shooting team to keep jacking up 3 pointer. 4 for 32 in one game is what kept KY from advancing from the Elite 8.

No, CCM hasn't been here long enough or went after the top talent long enough to know that he would or wouldn't take a "elite" talent that has some issues. I wouldn't fault him if he did though. He's already proven that it's his way or no way and it doesn't matter who you are.

I don't think Jones is a type kid that you would classify as one with issues though. Especially, not in the same category as a Cousins or Sydney
 
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#35
#35
johnnybravo said:
I really don't think Jones would worry about beating out a player with the talent level as Landry. That's not a knock on Landry at all. Just Jones with 2 years of JUCO experience will be far better and more prepared for the D1 level than Landry. I would think that Jones would probably expect to have to back Trae up his Senior year. My point is though Jones will be a much better pg than anyone we will have on the team and if you can somehow get him, then you take him. UT will not get him though so really not an issue. We wish we could have though once he's in D1.
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Yea he'd probably sit behind trae then his senior year may start over landy, BUT What happens then if you sign Richmond in 2014? You think Richmond will wanna come here as one of the top PG and sit behind jones? Probably not.

And by sayjng jones will be a much better PG than anyone you are either 1. Underestimating Harris or 2. Expecting too much from jones....those 2 are pretty damn close to the same level. Close enough that I wouldn't call jones much better and close enough that I'd prefer Harris for 12&13 over jones for 13&14 when we're wanting to bring in teammates Richmond and Pinson.
 
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#36
#36
bleedingTNorange said:
Yea he'd probably sit behind trae then his senior year may start over landy, BUT What happens then if you sign Richmond in 2014? You think Richmond will wanna come here as one of the top PG and sit behind jones? Probably not.

And by sayjng jones will be a much better PG than anyone you are either 1. Underestimating Harris or 2. Expecting too much from jones....those 2 are pretty damn close to the same level.
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Why would he have to sit? If he's one of the best 5 on the team, then he will play. Do you think Calipari would sit 2 great pgs such as Bledsoe and Walls?
 
#39
#39
Here's my point, I'd prefer...
2012:
PG: Fabyon, Trae
2013:
PG: Fabyon, Trae, Landry
2014:
PG: Landry, Richmond

Over
2012: Trae
2013: Jones, Trae, Landey
2014: Jones, Landry, Richmond

I feel our biggest weakness next year is PG and 2 guard signing Fabyon fixes both. Then in 13 with the guys were in on and the nucleus well have it could be a great season. By only having Trae at PG again next year and no solid scoring 2 guard I don't see us being night/day better than this year. Then in 2013 were having to use 2 scholarships on 2 PG, when we need bodies at 3,4 & 5 and are in on great talent at those positions.
 
#40
#40
johnnybravo said:
I would think that he would get 20+ minutes at pg. Maybe more.

If he came here. He's not coming to UT. 0% chance.
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Agreed he's not coming here he wants to play IMO, and as you said wont be guaranteed a starting spot here. He's a great talent, I just think with where we currently sit with our roster and the guys were after, it'd be Better to land Fabyon than jones.
 
#41
#41
bleedingTNorange said:
Here's my point, I'd prefer...
2012:
PG: Fabyon, Trae
2013:
PG: Fabyon, Trae, Landry
2014:
PG: Landry, Richmond

Over
2012: Trae
2013: Jones, Trae, Landey
2014: Jones, Landry, Richmond

I feel our biggest weakness next year is PG and 2 guard signing Fabyon fixes both. Then in 13 with the guys were in on and the nucleus well have it could be a great season. By only having Trae at PG again next year and no solid scoring 2 guard I don't see us being night/day better than this year. Then in 2013 were having to use 2 scholarships on 2 PG, when we need bodies at 3,4 & 5 and are in on great talent at those positions.
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If you get Fabyon, then senerio 1 would be better for next year only. But I seriously doubt that he will come to UT IMO. You get Jones and an early commit from Richmond, then Landry probably goes some where else leaving an open scholarship for a better player at another position.

IMO Jones is not coming and Fabyon is not coming, so what you have is Trae and walkon pg next year and Trae and Landry in 2013/14.
 
#42
#42
johnnybravo said:
If you get Fabyon, then senerio 1 would be better for next year only. But I seriously doubt that he will come to UT IMO. You get Jones and an early commit from Richmond, then Landry probably goes some where else leaving an open scholarship for a better player at another position.

IMO Jones is not coming and Fabyon is not coming, so what you have is Trae and walkon pg next year and Trae and Landry in 2013/14.
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Once again by saying its better next year only you're either 1. Underestimating Fabyon or 2. Overestimating jones....they are pretty near a wash.....

I would think Fabyon would have eliminated us by now instead of us being in his top schools if it were that cut and dry.

We may very well miss on both, but I'm really hoping for Fabyon. Him or jones would bring us to the next level immediately upon their arrival and I prefer sooner rather than later.
 
#44
#44
bleedingTNorange said:
Once again by saying its better next year only you're either 1. Underestimating Fabyon or 2. Overestimating jones....they are pretty near a wash.....

I would think Fabyon would have eliminated us by now instead of us being in his top schools if it were that cut and dry.

We may very well miss on both, but I'm really hoping for Fabyon. Him or jones would bring us to the next level immediately upon their arrival and I prefer sooner rather than later.
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I'm saying it's better next year only because obviously we are again without a backup pg and a #2 guard still as our pg. Every other year is better with Jones on the team. IMO Jones > Fabyon and not even close. I have not seen Fabyon play, just seen some of his stats, but I have seen Jones play and he is a game changer.
 
#45
#45
johnnybravo said:
I'm saying it's better next year only because obviously we are again without a backup pg and a #2 guard still as our pg. Every other year is better with Jones on the team. IMO Jones > Fabyon and not even close. I have not seen Fabyon play, just seen some of his stats, but I have seen Jones play and he is a game changer.
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as is Fabyon. He took over a csi team that lost everyone and wasn't expected to do much and took them into the tournament.

Compare his numbers to jones, very comparable.
 
#46
#46
bleedingTNorange said:
Ask Stansbury if he wished he'd have passed up Sydney?

You don't always need to bring in the most talented players if you feel they're not good fits for your team.

Not only that but when he's eligible also is an issue, he'll be the 2013 class. So say we get Harris, you have Harris golden and Landry all on scholarship in 2013. You're trying to sign guys like Nichols, king, hubbs, Johnson, thornwell, ringer etc etc for that class as well.

So do you pass on one of those signees for a 2 year guy, maybe even a 1 year guy in Jones, who plays a position that's already LOADED? I understand he's very talented, but with the way our roster has taken shape, and with the guys CCM is recruiting for 2013, I don't think bringing in Jones is something he's really even considering.
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Not sure I buy into your theory. First of all, Chris Jones is not a one year guy. He's 5-9 on a good day. He is a SG in a PGs body. 5-9, shoot first PGs don't get drafted often. He needs some experience and seasoning against major D1 competition and he won't get that in one year.

Secondly, I don't buy that the position will be loaded. Golden is solid at the position. Landry is unproven and only marginally thought of as a prospect. Assuming he pans out though, Golden gives you a better option at SG than we have now with Jones and Landry holding down the PG position. Jones starts and plays for two seasons with Landry as primary backup, then he takes over when Jones leaves. Golden provides depth at both positions.
 
#47
#47
cncchris33 said:
Not sure I buy into your theory. First of all, Chris Jones is not a one year guy. He's 5-9 on a good day. He is a SG in a PGs body. 5-9, shoot first PGs don't get drafted often. He needs some experience and seasoning against major D1 competition and he won't get that in one year.

Secondly, I don't buy that the position will be loaded. Golden is solid at the position. Landry is unproven and only marginally thought of as a prospect. Assuming he pans out though, Golden gives you a better option at SG than we have now with Jones and Landry holding down the PG position. Jones starts and plays for two seasons with Landry as primary backup, then he takes over when Jones leaves. Golden provides depth at both positions.
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I said he's a 2 year guy, maybe a 1, but most likely a 2. He wouldn't be the first kid to leave school thinking he was a draft lock, see Scotty Hopson.

Anyways...my whole point about being loaded was if Fabyon came here. I'd prefer Fabyon for 12&13 than Jones 13&14. None of your scenarios talk about Harris being here and that was my whole point. That I'd prefer Fabyon here these next 2 years than Jones here in 13&14. We can recruit a stud PG, which we are, for 2014. However, Fabyon is about our only PG option this next year. I'd rather go for it now than sit around and hope Jones comes here.

So this is why I'd prefer Fabyon...next year Fabyon at PG and as you said Trae at the 2. Immediately you improve both positions. Then in 2013 Landry learns behind Fabyon & Trae and in 2014 has that yea of experience. We also are looking to add PG Jaquel Richmond in 2014 whos a combo and could play PG if Landry didn't pan out. This scenario gives us an upgrade at PG & SG immediately, and allow us to continue that success with recruiting the position going forward. However, staying pat and waiting on jones doesn't improve us immediately, I'd prefer to be better sooner.
 
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#48
#48
bleedingTNorange said:
I said he's a 2 year guy, maybe a 1, but most likely a 2. He wouldn't be the first kid to leave school thinking he was a draft lock, see Scotty Hopson.

Anyways...my whole point about being loaded was if Fabyon came here. I'd prefer Fabyon for 12&13 than Jones 13&14. None of your scenarios talk about Harris being here and that was my whole point. That I'd prefer Fabyon here these next 2 years than Jones here in 13&14. We can recruit a stud PG, which we are, for 2014. However, Fabyon is about our only PG option this next year. I'd rather go for it now than sit around and hope Jones comes here.

So this is why I'd prefer Fabyon...next year Fabyon at PG and as you said Trae at the 2. Immediately you improve both positions. Then in 2013 Landry learns behind Fabyon & Trae and in 2014 has that yea of experience. We also are looking to add PG Jaquel Richmond in 2014 whos a combo and could play PG if Landry didn't pan out. This scenario gives us an upgrade at PG & SG immediately, and allow us to continue that success with recruiting the position going forward. However, staying pat and waiting on jones doesn't improve us immediately, I'd prefer to be better sooner.
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Ok. I didn't see any mention of Harris in your post. Maybe I missed it. Under the assumption that he came aboard this year, that would "load" the position a little more.
 
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