Clarification: Tennessee is NOT competitive in the SEC

[volbound1700]

I agree with this. Those in tier 3 will have years when they are competitive, and the schedule is in their favor. Unlike others I don't automatically put Texas and OU in tier 1. They are tier 2 until they can prove they can survive more than one game against teams in the SEC.

I do think with the addition of the teams and the disbanding of the east / west divisions and scheduling which will no longer favor UGA, we will finally see if Kirby really is that good of a coach or if he just benefited from starting with a loaded team. Saban will eventually retire - you can tell he doesn't like the new rules at all because NIL, the transfer portal and the monster conferences are leveling things. None of those who have been mentioned as replacements have been able to beat him which means that are not him.

Frankly, going all-time, I think Oklahoma belongs in Tier 1 and Texas belongs in Tier 2. Oklahoma is down right now but they won 14 out of last 20 Big12 titles or something insane like that and Oklahoma typically beats Texas.

 

[sami]

Believe me. There are lots on here who are happy with mediocrity. They like to says things like” it’s not mediocre to be better than the last 2 coaches, if you think 8-4 is mediocre then you just have a “ low football IQ”. For me I say if you are happy with and accept being 8-4 and getting blown out in sec games, don’t your dumbass every refer to someone as a low football IQ fan

There are a lot of us not satisfied with 8-4 but smart enough to comprehend that total program rebuilds out of NCAA sanctions and major loss of talent to transfers don't happen in 2-3 seasons. The goal isn't simply to be better than mediocrities like Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt, but those that actually pay attention understand that reversing a decade and a half of being a laughingstock doesn't happen overnight.

And then there are the fools who can't grasp that the loss of talent from last year, a still thin roster, and a rash of injuries might result in a step back this year, because it's a lot easier to scream like butthurt children and start mindless threads on a forum.

 

[volbound1700]

There are a lot of us not satisfied with 8-4 but smart enough to comprehend that total program rebuilds out of NCAA sanctions and major loss of talent to transfers don't happen in 2-3 seasons. The goal isn't simply to be better than mediocrities like Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt, but those that actually pay attention understand that reversing a decade and a half of being a laughingstock doesn't happen overnight.

And then there are the fools who can't grasp that the loss of talent from last year, a still thin roster, and a rash of injuries might result in a step back this year, because it's a lot easier to scream like butthurt children and start mindless threads on a forum.

Issue isn't this year, issue is year after ****ing year of Alabama and Georgia. Even last year.

I am not complaining about Tennessee but the entire sport for basically not giving joy to anyone except two damn programs. It ****ing sucks. There needs to be recruiting and coaching limits to balance the league and prevent this **** from happening.

Under my rules, Saban can only stay at Alabama 6 years let's say and then he has to go coach somewhere else.

Alabama can only recruit x # of 5 stars, x # of 4 stars, etc. until there is a limit.

Even the game up so that even teams like UK and Vandy have a shot. Most sports have this. NFL has draft picks, they just don't keep having Kansas City draft # 1 over and over again.

 

[sami]

Is Tennessee in Tier 2? One good year (2022) doesn't put them in Tier 2. Some of the teams in Tier 3 have had a lot more success the last 10 years than Tennessee. Auburn and Florida have an argument to be in Tier 3 as well.

I'm talking about more than just the last 10-15 years. Historically we are as close to elite as this conference has outside of Alabama and now Georgia. I would agree that Auburn is more of a Tier 2.5.

 

[sami]

Issue isn't this year, issue is year after ****ing year of Alabama and Georgia. Even last year.

I am not complaining about Tennessee but the entire sport for basically not giving joy to anyone except two damn programs. It ****ing sucks. There needs to be recruiting and coaching limits to balance the league and prevent this **** from happening.

Under my rules, Saban can only stay at Alabama 6 years let's say and then he has to go coach somewhere else.

Alabama can only recruit x # of 5 stars, x # of 4 stars, etc. until there is a limit.

Even the game up so that even teams like UK and Vandy have a shot. Most sports have this. NFL has draft picks, they just don't keep having Kansas City draft # 1 over and over again.

My post was responding to a something different.

I hear you, but I don't go along with any kind of organization controlling or dictating how much success any school is allowed to have, and certainly not where a kid might want to play or how long a coach is permitted to stay.

There are good organizations and coaches in the NFL that normally win for any given period of time, and it goes in cycles. The Patriots dominated, now they've fallen off and the Chiefs are the team. UT was up in the '90's and Bama was down. Florida in the late '90's / '00's. The last decade has been Bama then Georgia. We'll see with realignment and NIL if the same schools will stay on top.

I'd rather see something done about things like officiating, get some accountability and consequences for bad officials. That, and make sure the selection process for the CFP is objective and transparent with the new playoff system. I'm not holding my breath, but if those things were cleaned up, I'd feel a lot better about the state of CFB.

 

[volbound1700]

I'm talking about more than just the last 10-15 years. Historically we are as close to elite as this conference has outside of Alabama and now Georgia. I would agree that Auburn is more of a Tier 2.5.

Auburn has a National Title this Century and appeared in another title game.

LSU has 3 National Titles this Century and more overall AP National Titles than Tennessee.

Florida owns us on wins and has 3 National Titles in the modern era.

All ahead of Tennessee in my book.

 

[volbound1700]

My post was responding to a something different.

I hear you, but I don't go along with any kind of organization controlling or dictating how much success any school is allowed to have, and certainly not where a kid might want to play or how long a coach is permitted to stay.

There are good organizations and coaches in the NFL that normally win for any given period of time, and it goes in cycles. The Patriots dominated, now they've fallen off and the Chiefs are the team. UT was up in the '90's and Bama was down. Florida in the late '90's / '00's. The last decade has been Bama then Georgia. We'll see with realignment and NIL if the same schools will stay on top.

I'd rather see something done about things like officiating, get some accountability and consequences for bad officials. That, and make sure the selection process for the CFP is objective and transparent with the new playoff system. I'm not holding my breath, but if those things were cleaned up, I'd feel a lot better about the state of CFB.

I can understand but you don't have situations in NFL were teams lose 16 straight years to their rival.

Hell Tennessee, has been **** and Alabama up half my life time now. Most the students at Tennessee never saw a year were Tennessee was good other than 2022. In the NFL, it is 5-6 years which is fine for college too and was more the situation that I saw when I started the sport. I missed the Bear Bryant years, maybe it was bad then but frankly it has just been atrocious this last 20 years or so. It is literally getting to the point of why watch the game anymore if you know it will be all Alabama?

Georgia was a little refreshing at first but now it is getting old as well and their fans (or at least some of them) are insufferable.

My dad has SEC Championship Game tickets and he never gets to go now. Just sells them every year.

 

[sami]

I can understand but you don't have situations in NFL were teams lose 16 straight years to their rival.

Hell Tennessee, has been **** and Alabama up half my life time now. Most the students at Tennessee never saw a year were Tennessee was good other than 2022. In the NFL, it is 5-6 years which is fine for college too and was more the situation that I saw when I started the sport. I missed the Bear Bryant years, maybe it was bad then but frankly it has just been atrocious this last 20 years or so. It is literally getting to the point of why watch the game anymore if you know it will be all Alabama?

Georgia was a little refreshing at first but now it is getting old as well and their fans (or at least some of them) are insufferable.

My dad has SEC Championship Game tickets and he never gets to go now. Just sells them every year.

I hear you and get how a younger fan might feel the way you do, but if you look at the history of college football there has never been parity, really. Alabama, USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, and Oklahoma were the blue bloods in the '60's and '70's the way Alabama, Georgia, and Ohio State have been recently, with other schools having brief runs at the top (UT in the '90's, FL, LSU, USC, and Texas in the '00's) If you're looking for parity, CFB has really never been the sport to follow.

 

[volbound1700]

I hear you and get how a younger fan might feel the way you do, but if you look at the history of college football there has never been parity, really. Alabama, USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, and Oklahoma were the blue bloods in the '60's and '70's the way Alabama, Georgia, and Ohio State have been recently, with other schools having brief runs at the top (UT in the '90's, FL, LSU, USC, and Texas in the '00's) If you're looking for parity, CFB has really never been the sport to follow.

I started watching in 1990s. No team was like Alabama until Saban. In the 1990s, you had almost a different team every year. Nebraska was most dominant with 3 National Titles. Alabama, Florida, and Tennessee all had 1 National Title but Florida kind of ran the SEC. People talk about Tennessee's dominant years but even then, we were 2nd fiddle to Florida.

We haven't had a dominant period since Neyland. I mean a period where we are doing what Alabama or Georgia are doing now or Florida under Meyer and Spurrier's stints were you are winning SEC regularly and beating all of your rivals. Someone has always been in Tennessee's way.

However, I would say the best time for College Football was 2000-2010. SEC had a lot of parity. Take 2006 season where you felt like Auburn, Florida, and LSU were all National Title Contenders. Tennessee wasn't great but they were still a decent program then. Alabama was actually in bad shape but Alabama's "down" period still had an SEC Title (1999) and a couple of 10 win seasons.

Alabama's down period was no where near as bad as Tennessee's and did NOT last near as long. Alabama was pretty good until 1996 and got good again in 2008. In the middle, they still had an SEC Championship in 1999 and 2 other 10-win seasons under Franchione and Shula.

Tennessee has done nothing. No SEC Championships this Century, no SEC Championship Game appearance since 2007, only 1 double digit win Season in last 20 years.

That is miserable and frankly it bodes for a miserable experience. Alabama never had a 16-game losing streak to anyone. That is brutal.

Yeah, I saw more parity when I first started. I was really old enough to start watching in 1997, you had in that span Nebraska/Michigan, Tennessee, FSU, Oklahoma, Miami, Ohio State, LSU/USC, USC, Texas, Florida, LSU, Florida, Alabama, Auburn.

That is a different team every year and frankly a lot of parity.

Then you get 2010-2023 which has literally been all Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia. I think Ohio State and LSU both had those one dream seasons each but that is it. No parity. That is 13 years with only 5 teams vs previous 13 years that saw 13 different teams claim a title or co-title.

 

[Carl Pickens]

I’m not real sure what you’re trying to say. Personally I’m jealous of those programs. They did what it took to get where they are. Bama brought saban in and made him the highest paid coach at the time. Ga fired richt who was winning 8-10 a year but they wanted more. Now look where both teams are. They did what it took whether it was popular or not. Tn has shown they won’t do what it takes. Mediocrity is where we will stay.

Who should the Vols bring in to get them to Bama and GA’s level? I’ll hang up and listen …..,

 

[Mtnvol80]

Actually, you have a few tiers:

Tier 1 - Alabama, Georgia

Tier 2 - LSU, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee
Tier 3 - Kentucky, Ole Miss, Miss. St., Missouri, Arkansas, USCjr, Texas A&M (although they should be in Tier 2)
Tier 4 - Vanderbilt

It remains to be seen whether Texas and Oklahoma will be Tier 1 or 2 now that they are competing against the big boys for talent.

We're not tier 2 or if we are lsu needs to go to one. 3 championships this century by 3 diff coaches. Everyone you listed in tier 2 has won a championship this century except us. We need our own tier just below them

 

[Behr]

Who should the Vols bring in to get them to Bama and GA’s level? I’ll hang up and listen …..,

It's not his job to determine that. It seems his job is to decide which of our fans are settling for mediocrity and who is actually doing something to change our football program by stating it on VolNation.

 

[Tin Man]

I recollect that Georgia fired Richt when they felt sure that they could hire Kirby. Kirby is legacy, a former Bulldog player who was doing great things as coordinator for the dominant program in CFB.

 

[Cartervol]

#1 recruiting classes do that for a program..College football in general is top heavy.. Same teams every year..

 

[Tin Man]

…Tn has shown they won’t do what it takes. Mediocrity is where we will stay.

You are absolutely correct. I was a guest at Donde Plowman’s executive meeting with AD White. She applauded the rising success of Tennessee’s athletic programs. She allowed the pursuit of championships in other sports but stressed that the football program should win but never reach the brass ring. She hammered home the importance of Haslam’s continuing contributions and the imperative that nothing outshine the standing of the business college’s Logistics program.

 

[Advol]

Tennessee is NOT competitive in the SEC​

Totally disagree. Define Competitive. It IS what it IS> 8-4, 10-2 etc. with a Good Bowl Game IS competitive. Occasionally knocking off a Bamma, etc Vols fall in line with a LONG line of other teams in the same class. Do NOT have the recruits matched with the Total Staff (not just a HC) to compete at the highest level. And it is ok. The football world has changed. Transfer Portals, Ad $$ to players, etc. NCAA Football is now nothing more that the NFL Minor League. Tail gate, root for the BO and enjoy it in whatever form we put on the field. IF you want to be tier one..............someone has to spend some money. I dont think UT is going to do it?? IMHO

 

[BeardedVol]

Tennessee is NOT competitive in the SEC​

Totally disagree. Define Competitive. It IS what it IS> 8-4, 10-2 etc. with a Good Bowl Game IS competitive. Occasionally knocking off a Bamma, etc Vols fall in line with a LONG line of other teams in the same class. Do NOT have the recruits matched with the Total Staff (not just a HC) to compete at the highest level. And it is ok. The football world has changed. Transfer Portals, Ad $$ to players, etc. NCAA Football is now nothing more that the NFL Minor League. Tail gate, root for the BO and enjoy it in whatever form we put on the field. IF you want to be tier one..............someone has to spend some money. I dont think UT is going to do it?? IMHO

4-4 is not a competitive conference record.

No matter how many OOC games we win, it still won't make .500 in the SEC being competitive.

 

[Behr]

Some of you fine people have been saying the same thing over and over and over for years.

And look where it's got us.

 

[Vol4gzus]

If you can honestly say you believe the best that the university of Tn could get post fulmer before the dumpster fire is Dooley, butch, Pruitt then I’m not real sure how you figured out to click buttons and create an account here. Not sure of your age but you may not know we were once a consistent football great. You may also want to look up where we rank on resources and money for football. It’s all there. A saban or Kirby? Maybe not. But we were never willing to throw the money at someone to find out what they could do here. If we would’ve gotten a mid mid-high level coach then-hard telling what the program could be now. Worse?better? Who knows. We always shopped bottom shelf. I’m not really sure how you’re arguing that.

Bottom line is this is small talk in the scheme of life. I got caught up in the heat of discussion unintentionally. My apologies for provoking you to an angry response. Relationships and accountability are what really matters. Please forgive my transgression .

 

[volbound1700]

#1 recruiting classes do that for a program..College football in general is top heavy.. Same teams every year..

Yeah but go read my post# 84 in the thread, it was NEVER this bad.

13 years, 5 teams won National Titles, that is it

13 years prior, 13 different teams won it.

There is a reason leagues like Pac12 are folding, entire regions of the country are dialing out because they are sick of Alabama and Saban. In a lot of ways, his dominance has ruined the sport. Kirby Smart just seems like Saban 2.0.

Even in 1990s, you felt like it was more of a NATIONAL sport, now it is just the Southeast and maybe sometimes a team from Michigan, Ohio, or Texas.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

I dont by get paid millions to run an AD. That’s not for me to decide. I don’t know that we’ve made a “good” coaching hire since dumping fulmer. Jury is still out on Heup depending on who you ask. Possibly kiffin but that still went south. Point is they had many opportunities to spend big money and bring in a big time coach. After the 3-4 awful hires no big time coach was interested given the dumpster fire. Our university wasn’t willing to make the move that others were. Mostly when it comes to money. These issues didn’t just fall in our lap. They were created and multiplied by the admin continually trying to find the next great bargain bin coach.

So you’re just telling us the answer to our problems are hiring the greatest coach in college football history and the guy that is on the verge of winning his 3rd straight national title, but you don’t know who that would’ve been for us to hire ? Hell we should’ve hired Coach K or Dean Smith or maybe Jay Wright to get us to the final 4. It’s not always money. Just ask aTm

 

[volbound1700]

So you’re just telling us the answer to our problems are hiring the greatest coach in college football history and the guy that is on the verge of winning his 3rd straight national title, but you don’t know who that would’ve been for us to hire ? Hell we should’ve hired Coach K or Dean Smith or maybe Jay Wright to get us to the final 4. It’s not always money. Just ask aTm

Agree. It is rolling dice with coaches. You don't know until it works.

There have been several perceived "Home Run" big hires in the SEC. Here is quick breakdown:

1. Nick Saban, Alabama - Speaks for itself. He was a little unknown with LSU hire though
2. Jimbo Fisher, Texas A&M
3. Brian Kelley, LSU - Verdict is still out
4. Brett Bielema, Arkansas - Not successful
5. Mike Leach, Miss State - I think this was a good hire
6. Urban Meyer, Florida - Urban was still kind of unknown at the time he was hired at Florida

These were situations were head coaches were hired that looked like slam dunks with heavy money thrown at them. Only two fully panned out.

While you had unknowns that ended up being far mor successful than expected (Coordinator levels)

Kirby Smart
Mark Richt
James Franklin - Very unknown grab at Vandy

I do think Tennessee has had some misses. They could have gotten Mike Leach in the past. I do think Leach would have performed about the same as Heupel, he would have definitely been better than Pruitt, Jones, Dooley however.

Chip Kelley was the big one. We only had one shot at him and that was during the first firing which we hired Kiffin over him. We also hired Kiffin over Patterson supposedly. After Kiffin left, our changes at big names decreased heavily.

Ironically, some of our first picks, ended up being failures at other places (Charlie Strong was #1 during the hiring search that gave us Butch Jones and he went to Texas and failed).

Out of the 5 hires since Fulmer, I actually consider 2 hires to be very good at the time (on paper), 2 to be average, and 1 as WTF.

The WTF hire was Dooley. That made 0 sense and was a rushed hire. The guy had a losing record at La Tech, what made us think he could command an SEC Program?

The supposed 2 good hires on paper were Butch Jones and Josh Heupel as both had head coaching experience and a winning record at a G5 school. Jones ended up being a failure long-term but many didn't see that at first.

Kiffin was a mistake, IMO, but wasn't horrible mistake. I think it was a knee jerk reaction to get someone that was the opposite of Fulmer. Pruitt was another one that just seemed meh. I didn't get excited for Pruitt at all, I just hoped he would pan out.

Now going off hindsight, Pruitt was the WORSE hire followed by Dooley. In fact, those two hires maybe two of the worse hires in SEC history. I would actually put Kiffin at 3rd, especially considering the state of our program at the time. We had a great chance to get a very good coach at that time and still be competitive. The Kiffin/Dooley chaos caused our program to dip and made it a tougher sale to coaches.

 

[Cartervol]

Yeah but go read my post# 84 in the thread, it was NEVER this bad.

13 years, 5 teams won National Titles, that is it

13 years prior, 13 different teams won it.

There is a reason leagues like Pac12 are folding, entire regions of the country are dialing out because they are sick of Alabama and Saban. In a lot of ways, his dominance has ruined the sport. Kirby Smart just seems like Saban 2.0.

Even in 1990s, you felt like it was more of a NATIONAL sport, now it is just the Southeast and maybe sometimes a team from Michigan, Ohio, or Texas.

Yeah. They called it Bama fatigue. Looks like Kirby will have everyone complaining about Georgia fatigue.

 

[SpookyAction]

Kirby only wanted one HC job. And it's the one he took. He would have stayed DC for Saban forever until UGA came calling

The good aspect of this is he will extract 10 pounds of flesh from UGA when Saban retires and Bama comes calling.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Our program had every opportunity to hire a saban or Kirby. We didn’t. Now we are where we are. That’s on the admin. While I see your point, teams shouldn’t be punished for building what everyone wants to build. If TN was in domination right now your post would look a bit different.

Just curious, how does an AD tell who are the Saban's and Smart's before they become those guys?

Saban had LSU and his Natty before Bama, but there was no real indication he'd become the force he did.

Smart had his work under Saban before GA.

We HIRED Saban assistants that didn't become Smart. We hired Johnny, who won the SEC but never won a Natty for us.

Tell me, how DO you know who the next successful coach is before their success?