Closing the recruiting gap

#53
#53
OrangeTsar said:
So why why with the success Heupel is having are we not making a move from 10 to 12th range up to top 5 or 6 at least? What are recruits waiting for? Why aren’t players flocking to be part of this and developed by what is now a demonstrably capable coaching staff? What will it take to crack the top 5v
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We can tell a 5* recruit: "Hey, why go to a program where you aren't going to see the field until your junior or senior year? You'll be stuck behind oldeer 5* recruits until you get older. If you come here, you'll likely see the field sooner. And we play a much more exciting brand of football."

Of course, the recruit will weigh that against what he perceives the other programs have in terms of player development and certainty of a high draft slot and the money that goes with it. UT hasn't had recent success in sending a lot of people to the pros in high draft slots. And this staff is a relative unknown to them. Putting people in the pros in high draft slots is huge. The best players know they are candidates for such an outcome of their college playing days, and they want a degree of comfort that they will be developed that highly before they will commit. Demonstrating that you can consistently get players drafted into the pros, especially with high draft slots, is very important for elite recruiting. That will take some time.
 
#54
#54
BelieveTheHeup93 said:
We need to sign top 8-10 classes consistently at worst and 2 out of every 5 years sign a top 3-5 class. Half of our guys on both LOS need to be NFL caliber players and we need at least 1 RB and LB that is an NFL caliber player as well as 1 NFL caliber player at both levels of the secondary. We also need 1-2 WR or TEs that is capable of beating NFL caliber coverage without being schemed open. Right now we have maybe half of that at best. The talent gap is that wide. It’ll be 2024 at least until that talent gap is close to even unless we knock it out of the park in the portal for the next 2 years. At this point we are peak Oregon. We have maybe 4-5 NFL caliber players sprinkled throughout our roster, but our system allows us to play above our talent level right now.
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Looking at our current roster and commits for 2023 and 2024, I’m not seeing any sign of an elite RB interested in the Vols. Any of you aware of an elite RB seriously looking at the Vols that could/will play next season?
 
#55
#55
MarcoVol said:
Weird. I seem to recall we beat Bama this year while not recruiting with them.

Clemson also had not recruited with them. Yet beat them more than once on their way to being champs.
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We beat Bama in a down year for them (note LSU just beat them, too). Also, our home crowd did to them what UGA home crowd did for them vs us. If we play that game on a neutral field we don't win it. Also Bama has an uncharacteristically weak secondary, and we play a style that can really exploit that.

Clemson also has had plenty of time to prepare for Bama each time they've played them. They don't have to play them a week after playing LSU and a week before playing Georgia or some other ranked SEC team.
 
#56
#56
youcancallmeAl said:
We beat Bama in a down year for them (note LSU just beat them, too). Also, our home crowd did to them what UGA home crowd did for them vs us. If we play that game on a neutral field we don't win it. Also Bama has an uncharacteristically weak secondary, and we play a style that can really exploit that.

Clemson also has had plenty of time to prepare for Bama each time they've played them. They don't have to play them a week after playing LSU and a week before playing Georgia or some other ranked SEC team.
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Didn’t realize this was the first time we’ve played Bama at home during the losing streak we had. This year we won bc we have the coaching, not bc of the crowd. And no, I’m not saying the crowd wasn’t a factor.

We don’t play the same style as Bama and UGA.

Vols can absolutely beat those teams without being top 3 in recruiting. It’ll take talent, yes, but it’s not a requirement that it’s from a top 3 class. An elite QB and some dudes to sling it to is a requirement, however.

Clemson had plenty of time to prepare? Well Kirby said they’ve been preparing for us since the offseason. So it seems like we have time to prepare for them also. Kirby and Dabo don’t have a lock on the gift of time.
 
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#58
#58
BigOrangeTrain said:
Yeah but these situations are rare. Banking on us copying that formula is not a guarantee. While smelly had some great teams, the P12 wasn’t a powerhouse. The overwhelming evidence points to the fact that unless you get the highest rated recruits, you aren’t winning. Bama, UGA and OSU prove that. Yes Clemson is an outlier.
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I've said before that you have to average having classes in the 5-8 range to have sustained success in the SEC. I just don't believe that you have to be in the top 3 year after year.
 
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#59
#59
bigl3327 said:
We are looking very good for the '24 and '25 classes right now. I can't say that they will be top 3, but being in that top 5-8 range seems very likely. Multiple classes with that level of talent will help keep us in the conversation every year. That's where we want to be. We haven't even been relevant during the lifespan of these recruits.
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And if Nico is as good in college as expected then we are a lot closer to the top 3 than you think.
Elite QB play makes up for a lot and poor QB makes it hard for even ultra talented teams.
Just ask Jimbo
 
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#60
#60
OrangeTsar said:
So why why with the success Heupel is having are we not making a move from 10 to 12th range up to top 5 or 6 at least? What are recruits waiting for? Why aren’t players flocking to be part of this and developed by what is now a demonstrably capable coaching staff? What will it take to crack the top 5v
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One of the better post I have seen lately!!!
 
#61
#61
VolRage said:
Looking at our current roster and commits for 2023 and 2024, I’m not seeing any sign of an elite RB interested in the Vols. Any of you aware of an elite RB seriously looking at the Vols that could/will play next season?
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Next year simply won’t be a playoff contending team and will be a rebuilding year. Hooker, Hyatt, Tillman, Flowers, Young, Bumphus, Crawford, Carvin, Fant, and Page are all gone. Darnell Wright and either Banks and/or Beasley are likely gone too if they’re projected to be drafted and I could easily see Jabari Small medically retiring because it seems like he has to come out because of his shoulder every game
 
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#62
#62
MarcoVol said:
Didn’t realize this was the first time we’ve played Bama at home during the losing streak we had. This year we won bc we have the coaching, not bc of the crowd. And no, I’m not saying the crowd wasn’t a factor.

We don’t play the same style as Bama and UGA.

Vols can absolutely beat those teams without being top 3 in recruiting. It’ll take talent, yes, but it’s not a requirement that it’s from a top 3 class. An elite QB and some dudes to sling it to is a requirement, however.

Clemson had plenty of time to prepare? Well Kirby said they’ve been preparing for us since the offseason. So it seems like we have time to prepare for them also. Kirby and Dabo don’t have a lock on the gift of time.
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You win.
 
#64
#64
Recruiting alone won't do it. Gotta develop what you have and I think if you're looking for reasons to feel good about our recruiting going forward it'll be that we've won now and developed the roster that was inherited.

Next step is to see that translate to NFL draft picks, day 1 and 2. So while I may be sad to see some guys go, if Tillman, wright, Hyatt, young, baron, hooker, banks... Have that opportunity, that's huge. Either way, there's gonna be 5-7 guys probably get drafted. Big seeking points to go along with all the great things going on this season.
 
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#65
#65
Daniel_Lincolns_Foot said:
Take a look at A&M's draft classes since 2018 paired with their records. Top 10 classes each year with two Top 5, and yet very average results. 22-17 in SEC play since Jimbo took over.

It really comes down to coaching and player development. Good staffs can have pretty good seasons with a bunch of 4-5*, but great staffs can take 3* and turn them into 4-5* talent, and make the 4-5* recruits that much better.

Nick Saban and Kirby Smart are of course great coaches, but the program they put together with the elite coaching staff they bring aboard is really what separates them from the good.
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It comes down to having a good quarterback and offensive system neither of which txam has.
 
#66
#66
We can win a bunch games with a top 10 class. Doesn't have to be top 5. Just get a 3 or four each year that would have gone to BAMA or UGA.
I think once we show that we can consistently win big games it will be easier. Got to prove we are not a flash in the pan first.
Remember we are doing fine this year with leftovers from all the transfers. That's not a knock on those who stayed but we lost a lot of guys that would probably be starting if they were here.
 
#67
#67
Georgia and Alabama are utterly relentless in recruiting. Kirby has also adopted to some degree what Dabo did, which was also looking for kids of particular character. Kirby seems more ruthless in getting rid of those who do not fit (see the Cox kid that went to FU).

Something went wrong with Bama this year. Most talented roster in CFB and they never meshed or had the leadership a championship club needs. A possible example is there were rumors OSU and Georgia backed off of the Ricks kid from LSU when he was in the portal because of perceived character issues, while Bama took him.

I get a sense that Huepl is protective of the locker room as well. They will have to become more like Alabama, OSU, Oregon, (yep, Lanning knows how it has to done), and UGA in recruiting 24-7-365. It will not be easy and CJH has not had to build that type of organization up to now. But he's smart and got a front row lesson this past Saturday on what he has to do. Look for UT to become a recruiting machine as well.
 
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#68
#68
If you consistently recruit in the top 5 every year then you will be in the national title conversation every year if you have decent QB play and decent coaching and player development. It's that simple. Now, If you have a great coaching staff and recruit in the top 15 every year with a couple of top 10 classes thrown in then you can sneak into that conversation every 3 years or so. If you consistently recruit outside the top 25 then you have zero chance at ever winning a national title, even on your best years because you simply do not have the talented depth. The more talent you have, the more room for error you have. It's as simple as that.
 
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#70
#70
OrangeTsar said:
As someone who just can’t invest the time to understand and keep up each individual thread of dozens of prospects in the recruiting forum, can someone help me understand just how the recruiting is going and how far we are from closing the talent gap with Georgia? I can keep up with the big names like Nico and the skill players; but how are we looking in the trenches, especially on the OL? Are we making any inroads at all in recruiting in the absolute talent hotbed that is the State of Georgia? Do we have any chance at a top 3 class? With the success we have had this season I was expecting recruiting to take off but I still keep hearing that we are still ranked around tenth. What is the state of recruiting right now? Thanks in advance!
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There is a big difference between a 1-3 class versus top 5-10.

Especially when you go 4-5 classes in that arena.

I dont understand why our results arent translating into a top ten '23 class. My thoughts are we are looking for a certain player or we are so far behind in 23 cycle, with things moving up, that its too late to move on four and five stars. Or both.
 
#71
#71
Jackcrevol said:
There is a big difference between a 1-3 class versus top 5-10.

Especially when you go 4-5 classes in that arena.

I dont understand why our results arent translating into a top ten '23 class. My thoughts are we are looking for a certain player or we are so far behind in 23 cycle, with things moving up, that its too late to move on four and five stars. Or both.
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I think NIL contractual language may have something to do with that, and honestly that’s not a bad thing looking forward. Get some horses in the barn early and you don’t have to worry about crazy flips later…
 
#72
#72
They are High-School Kids! I don't care about their "STARS"!..... I don't care about their NIL!..... I only care about our Coaching and Development! Heuple is a man of Good Coaching and High-Character! I have two sons! (No football talent) -- But, if I was sending my kid off to school -- I'd rather have them play under Heuple! -- THAN: Saban, Smart, Fisher, Kiffin, Kelly, Stoops, Leach, Beamer, Pittman, or Drinkwitz.......- Jury's still out on Napier. ---- & who wants to play football for Vanderbilt, anyway?????
 
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#73
#73
Jackcrevol said:
There is a big difference between a 1-3 class versus top 5-10.

Especially when you go 4-5 classes in that arena.

I dont understand why our results arent translating into a top ten '23 class. My thoughts are we are looking for a certain player or we are so far behind in 23 cycle, with things moving up, that its too late to move on four and five stars. Or both.
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We have a Top 10 class just not on paper. Our Top 12 Recruits all have Elite skills and we have the best player in the country at the most important position QB. When you get outside Top 5 classes you get into the total score in low 90 range which means it's really subjective when you watch film like Smith or LB who has 89+ score and another team LB who has 92. I wouldn't trade them one minute. Or Gibson who stills has 89+ score over other corners around 92 again we our not trading. It's all good 👍. Have a Blessed Day. In CHRIST Alone
 
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#74
#74
Jackcrevol said:
There is a big difference between a 1-3 class versus top 5-10.

Especially when you go 4-5 classes in that arena.

I dont understand why our results arent translating into a top ten '23 class. My thoughts are we are looking for a certain player or we are so far behind in 23 cycle, with things moving up, that its too late to move on four and five stars. Or both.
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several posts explaining this in this thread. recruiting calendars moved up, many are taking officials before their senior years even start, and committing. lots of hay in the barn already for the 23 class, take a lookj at the # of committs per program....pretty much everyone is over 20 kids already.

so coming in to this spring/summer, this staff was a year, or more, behind in relationships.

we'll see the impact of this season in the transfer portal this winter and in the 24 class, which is off to a great start.
 
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#75
#75
RAVOL said:
We have a Top 10 class just not on paper. Our Top 12 Recruits all have Elite skills and we have the best player in the country at the most important position QB. When you get outside Top 5 classes you get into the total score in low 90 range which means it's really subjective when you watch film like Smith or LB who has 89+ score and another team LB who has 92. I wouldn't trade them one minute. Or Gibson who stills has 89+ score over other corners around 92 again we our not trading. It's all good 👍. Have a Blessed Day. In CHRIST Alone
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I agree partly. I would like to see more top end talent in this class. But at the same time, I do not believe for one second that Smith and some others should be 3 stars. I am surprised also that Telander and Conyers are rated as low as they are. I think we have some guys who will out perform their ranking.

But I'm disappointed that we aren't seeing any traction with more elite recruits in this class based upon our season. I'm surprised we aren't hearing from Lucas Simmons or Rico Walker, or that M'Pemba never really gave us a shot, or that Cobb won't even pick up the phone when we call, or that Francis won't reconsider, or that Searcy shut his recruitment down for Florida, or that we're not hearing about a highly ranked recruit who wasn't on our radar suddenly showing interest. None of that is happening and I don't get it.
 
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