Coach Martin

#31
#31
volbeast33 said:
Did you see the recruits he had coming in.... we weren't going to sniff the tournament again before he was fired.
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We are not sniffing it now. Im not very smart, but i know that arguing a known with an unknown is probably not effective.
 
#32
#32
vol-un-tear said:
He had a couple good recruiting classes and couldn't do much with the talent. Think Cal was glad to see him go.
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That's the story of his entire career. Not to mention, he's the most thin skinned coach that UT has ever hired and he becomes overly defensive when anyone is critical of him and his ability to coach. He left UT because he was really butt-hurt that Hart didn't offer him a more lucrative contract extension, and he felt under appreciated by the fans.
 
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#33
#33
gunner said:
That's the story of his entire career. Not to mention, he's the most thin skinned coach that UT has ever hired and he becomes overly defensive when anyone is critical of him and his ability to coach. He left UT because he was really butt-hurt that Hart didn't offer him a more lucrative contract extension, and he felt under appreciated by the fans.
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For a second there, i thought you were talking about Butch Jones.
 
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#34
#34
Thunder Good-Oil said:
3 have Nattys and about half have been to Final Fours. I think that all but two have been to the Elite Eight. Yea, the SEC sucks.
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The SEC is nowhere near as good as the Big 12 and ACC and I don't think it's as good as the Pac 12 or Big Ten, even though those conferences haven't had a national title in a long time.

The SEC isn't a completely unaccomplished basketball conference and does contain one of the blue blood programs in the sport, but it just isn't a basketball conference. There are just way too many average to below average programs once you get past Kentucky, and success tends to be very fleeting for any school that isn't Kentucky.
 
#35
#35
05_never_again said:
The SEC is nowhere near as good as the Big 12 and ACC and I don't think it's as good as the Pac 12 or Big Ten, even though those conferences haven't had a national title in a long time.

The SEC isn't a completely unaccomplished basketball conference and does contain one of the blue blood programs in the sport, but it just isn't a basketball conference. There are just way too many average to below average programs once you get past Kentucky, and success tends to be very fleeting for any school that isn't Kentucky.
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Penn State has had 4 NCAAT appearances in 40 years. Northwestern just went to their first ever. Nebraska has never won an NCAAT game. Rutgers hasn't been to the NCAAT for 25 years. Every SEC school has been to the Sweet 16.
 
#36
#36
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Penn State has had 4 NCAAT appearances in 40 years. Northwestern just went to their first ever. Nebraska has never won an NCAAT game. Rutgers hasn't been to the NCAAT for 25 years. Every SEC school has been to the Sweet 16.
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You kind of sound like those SEC haters from circa 2010 talking about how the SEC wasn't the best football conference but just happened to have the single best team every year. The SEC would have multiple dominant programs consistently every year, but their response to that would be "But Ole Miss and Vanderbilt are terrible! See, the SEC does have bad teams!"

Of course other conferences have teams that have done nothing. Sports is a zero sum game. When you have multiple historically dominant teams in the same conference you are going to have some teams who have done nothing.

The SEC has one blue blood (Kentucky), followed by a program that has had more recent success but isn't a blue blood (Florida), followed by an assortment of other mediocre-to-bad programs who have had fleeting success at various points over the years. It just isn't a great basketball conference.
 
#37
#37
volfannbama said:
Tourney has been fun to watch since he left huh?
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I liked Martin as a person and hated any issue with boosters. But the problem was that he wasn't recruiting well enough to keep getting us to the NCAAT. He needs great talent to do it because his offensive coaching is very mediocre.
 
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#38
#38
volfannbama said:
We are not sniffing it now. Im not very smart, but i know that arguing a known with an unknown is probably not effective.
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We were on the bubble last year with 2 weeks left in the regular season with a very young team- only two rotation players were upper classmen and one was a graduate transfer. I expect good things this year.
 
#39
#39
VolGee4 said:
We were on the bubble last year with 2 weeks left in the regular season with a very young team- only two rotation players were upper classmen and one was a graduate transfer. I expect good things this year.
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So we didnt make the tourney?

I like Barnes but we were making the tourney with decent players when Martin was here, we are not making it now.
 
#40
#40
VolGee4 said:
I liked Martin as a person and hated any issue with boosters. But the problem was that he wasn't recruiting well enough to keep getting us to the NCAAT. He needs great talent to do it because his offensive coaching is very mediocre.
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So what you are saying is, Martin was coaching well enough to get us in the tourney, but he might not have continued to do so in the future? So the only real difference is we let a good man/coach leave because a bunch of idiots thought Bruce pearl was coming back?
 
#41
#41
05_never_again said:
You kind of sound like those SEC haters from circa 2010 talking about how the SEC wasn't the best football conference but just happened to have the single best team every year. The SEC would have multiple dominant programs consistently every year, but their response to that would be "But Ole Miss and Vanderbilt are terrible! See, the SEC does have bad teams!"

Of course other conferences have teams that have done nothing. Sports is a zero sum game. When you have multiple historically dominant teams in the same conference you are going to have some teams who have done nothing.

The SEC has one blue blood (Kentucky), followed by a program that has had more recent success but isn't a blue blood (Florida), followed by an assortment of other mediocre-to-bad programs who have had fleeting success at various points over the years. It just isn't a great basketball conference.
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All 14 SEC members having been Sweet 16 teams is pretty strong.
 
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#42
#42
volfannbama said:
So what you are saying is, Martin was coaching well enough to get us in the tourney, but he might not have continued to do so in the future? So the only real difference is we let a good man/coach leave because a bunch of idiots thought Bruce pearl was coming back?
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No, what he is saying is we made the tourney despite Martin's coaching.

It took 3 NBA players on a roster for him to finally make the tournament and he wasn't recruiting at a level that talent could continue to overcome his coaching.
 
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#43
#43
volfannbama said:
So what you are saying is, Martin was coaching well enough to get us in the tourney, but he might not have continued to do so in the future? So the only real difference is we let a good man/coach leave because a bunch of idiots thought Bruce pearl was coming back?
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He made one tourney in three years and didn't have a single recruit lines up that averaged double figures in college... he would have been fired the very next season.... the mistake was who we replaced him with
 
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#44
#44
volfannbama said:
So we didnt make the tourney?

I like Barnes but we were making the tourney with decent players when Martin was here, we are not making it now.
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I don't know if you follow basketball or not, but the situation was quite clear. Martin went to the NCAAT one time. He wasn't replacing those players with ones who were just as good. He left UT with much less talent and then it got worse after Tyndall. Barnes was left with a mess just like Butch Jones. It really is simple. It was always going to take Barnes some time to build. Anyone expecting anything else is delusional.
 
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#45
#45
volfannbama said:
So we didnt make the tourney?

I like Barnes but we were making the tourney with decent players when Martin was here, we are not making it now.
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Martin didn't make the NCAAT until his 3rd year and it was a play-in game. Barnes has been the coach for two years.
 
#46
#46
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Martin didn't make the NCAAT until his 3rd year and it was a play-in game. Barnes has been the coach for two years.
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Sure, but Martin also has us respectable in the SEC tourney as well. I dont know all the behind the scenes stuff and dont follow recruiting (in any sport) at all. Martin deserved a chance to prove his worth before he got ran off by an incompetent administration and idiots signing a petition thinking BP was gonna come back.
 
#47
#47
volfannbama said:
Sure, but Martin also has us respectable in the SEC tourney as well. I dont know all the behind the scenes stuff and dont follow recruiting (in any sport) at all. Martin deserved a chance to prove his worth before he got ran off by an incompetent administration and idiots signing a petition thinking BP was gonna come back.
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If only Barnes had inherited the same type of talent that Martin did. Martin's talent had not played a lot but were very talented.
 
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#48
#48
volfannbama said:
Sure, but Martin also has us respectable in the SEC tourney as well. I dont know all the behind the scenes stuff and dont follow recruiting (in any sport) at all. Martin deserved a chance to prove his worth before he got ran off by an incompetent administration and idiots signing a petition thinking BP was gonna come back.
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It was a lose lose. He was distant and acted like UT was any other job. Go coach highschool if that's what you really believe. The admin had little choice. There was serious tension with several boosters and his recruiting was terrible. Hart handled the petition poorly, but I don't think they wanted to give it credibility by acknowledging it. The problem is there were boosters that wanted Pearl back. It was a tough divorce. Martin was the worst personality you could have picked.

Martin was not committed to UT, and the 2nd contract reflected UTs awareness of this. There is little question he was subtlyvplaying the race card.

He underachieved at Cal and has stepped into a perfect timing situation at Mizzou.
 
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#49
#49
Thunder Good-Oil said:
All 14 SEC members having been Seeet 16 teams is pretty strong.
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That's an interesting stat that sounds impressive but also is an indication that the ceiling for a lot of programs is the Sweet 16. If the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 is as far as a bunch of programs in your conference have ever gone, that isn't an indicator of a strong conference.

For example, the furthest Tennessee has gone in the tournament is the Elite 8, and we did that once. If we are having a football discussion about a program and their single best season was a year in which they finished in the top 8 in the country, we'd say they have a bad football program, and we'd be correct. In the SEC our standards of what makes a good basketball program are skewed. Vanderbilt is generally thought of as having a pretty good basketball program, right? Well, they've made the Elite 8 once and that was 51 years ago. That is as far as they've gone. Many of these SEC schools that made made Elite 8 or Final Four runs have done it only once or twice and are so far removed from those years. My point is that the success is inconsistent and very fleeting. Arkansas had a good run as a program in the mid 90s but hasn't gotten beyond the Round of 32 since 1996, for example. Does anybody think South Carolina is going to develop into a dominant basketball program because of last year?

The SEC does not have a good variety of teams that have won national titles. Florida has won a couple recently and Arkansas won one. It's dominated by Kentucky. Granted, the Pac 12's national title history is dominated by UCLA. But the ACC and Big 10 have variety and depth; even the Big East does (4 by 3 different schools and 9 runner-ups). Those conferences just have a larger number of schools that have good seasons more consistently.
 
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