Coaching Changes?

[sjt18]

BTW, Dooley's first class avg'd 3.44 stars according to Rivals.

Jones can still finish stronger... but the current commits avg 3.45 stars. He's not really doing anything out of range in that regard. That's about what UT avg's over the past several years going all the way back to Fulmer in the early '00's. If "stars" mean anything then UT does not seem to be getting anything much different from what they've gotten in the past in recruiting.

Maybe Jones is getting guys who won't wash out. Maybe they will prove over time to be much better developers of talent than they showed this year... but the excitement some have over how great this class is might be just a tad premature. Kiffin's one class avg'd 3.6 stars iirc... and flopped. Fulmer had one that avg'd 3.63 stars and wasn't much better.

 

[sjt18]

You ask for opinions so here is mine….I would like to see what this staff can do with SEC caliber players so, I would like to see this staff in place for the next two seasons with the recruits they are bringing in.

See my post above. Jones' current commits are about "average" for UT over the last 10 years or so with regard to "stars". UT is currently 9th overall and 7th in the SEC in avg stars... just ahead of USCe.

They better be able to coach guys up.

As far as progress in the QB position...as my papaw always said, you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken poop. You got to have something to work with.

So 4 guys with multiple FBS offers and one even called the #1 QB in FL his Sr year... and none of them can be coached up? Sorry. Not buying.

I think the fact the staff has not went after a QB in this class also supports that to an extent.

Who said they didn't go after a QB? They were being selective but they have apparently made some runs at a few guys.

I also think the line underachieved to a point but they also produced a 1000 yard rusher. You also have to realize if all of us keyboard coaches knew we couldn’t throw the ball successfully on a consistent basis that the rest of the coaches in the SEC knew that as well and schemed to stop the run.

Auburn won the West and everyone knew they were going to run.

I would be less disappointed with the passing game if A) the improvement had been more noticeable and consistent and B) had the OC had a back up ready to play when Worley went out. It was painfully obvious that Dobbs was not ready to play. Why not? What have they been doing with the kid for 4+ months?

I find it pretty interesting that the guy you are convinced is the "best"... is the one guy who didn't get on the field. Maybe it was because of injury but if he was that good then he should have played earlier in the season, right?

 

[Ducreux]

Have any of you ever worked for a large and highly respected publicly traded company in a significant leadership role...if you were hired or promoted into a position like that and your department, plant, division, performed like Tennessee did this year what would be on your year end Performance Review......what kind of bonuses would you receive.... what would you expect?

Again I'm talking about companies like those in the Fortune 500 and not private sector or family created and managed companies, governmental or educational positions...

 

[sport3500]

It will be interesting to see which other schools go after members of UT's staff because it is rare in college football to have a whole staff stay intact.

 

[HARTUPM]

Bring Back Jim Bob!

Ole Peyton got Jim Bob a good job with Denver

 

[huskyvol]

Have any of you ever worked for a large and highly respected publicly traded company in a significant leadership role...if you were hired or promoted into a position like that and your department, plant, division, performed like Tennessee did this year what would be on your year end Performance Review......what kind of bonuses would you receive.... what would you expect?

Again I'm talking about companies like those in the Fortune 500 and not private sector or family created and managed companies, governmental or educational positions...

Good point. BUT this would have to be classified as a start up company. It's hard to tell if they were trying to make lemonade out of lemons or just buying their time to get some fresh canvases to work with. 63 days until NSD, which is my birthday next year, so let's just wait and see how good of salesmen these coaches are.

 

[92volalum]

Why should someone/anyone have to believe in everything Butch is doing?
I for example right now only believe in his recruiting (because there is evidence so far he can do that well).
At the same time I do not believe in his staff evaluation or game planning/in game coaching (because so far there is no evidence that he does that well - and I don't want to hear what his best in America bearcat staff did in their previous high school level jobs - that does not apply in SEC).

BOOM!!!!!!

But the sunshine sheep only answer is lack of talent..that should include not just players but coaching talent as well.but they will never admit it.

Its called being objective

 

[sjt18]

Have any of you ever worked for a large and highly respected publicly traded company in a significant leadership role...if you were hired or promoted into a position like that and your department, plant, division, performed like Tennessee did this year what would be on your year end Performance Review......what kind of bonuses would you receive.... what would you expect?

Yes I have and do... more than likely unsatisfactory or a generous "satisfactory" with all kinds of "goals" to avoid being unsatisfactory in the next review assuming I survived to the next review..

I actually did take over a similar situation... had to change a culture... had to let a bunch of people go including two supervisors... had to improve infrastructure all the while dealing with a terrible market.

In the business world, standards do no change because things are difficult. The type of understanding some want to offer UT's staff... is pretty much non-existent.

Again I'm talking about companies like those in the Fortune 500 and not private sector or family created and managed companies, governmental or educational positions...

Above 150 actually... and the largest in its industry.

 

[sjt18]

Good point. BUT this would have to be classified as a start up company. .

No it isn't. The infrastructure is/was there. The $$$ are there. The brand is established and respected. And the personnel weren't nearly as bad as most have tried to make out.

It isn't over. He still has time. But he's "behind".

 

[sjt18]

Why should someone/anyone have to believe in everything Butch is doing?
I for example right now only believe in his recruiting (because there is evidence so far he can do that well).
At the same time I do not believe in his staff evaluation or game planning/in game coaching (because so far there is no evidence that he does that well - and I don't want to hear what his best in America bearcat staff did in their previous high school level jobs - that does not apply in SEC).

Harsh... but pretty much on.

Nothing that happened before he hit the SEC has any bearing on what he will do in the SEC. It is a coach meat grinder. Not every coach who has a great resume succeeds in the SEC.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

He had one that is probably going to put 7 to 10 guys in the NFL though. He just couldn't coach them up or hold them together..

Wasn't that class largely put together by Kiffin though?

 

[sjt18]

Wasn't that class largely put together by Kiffin though?

Yes. But they signed with Dooley and especially the guys who really made the class "good".

And the tough break for Jones is that last year was pretty much the result of Dooley quitting recruiting sometime around mid-season at the latest. He needed to pull off a miracle to make that class good... and he couldn't. In the end... it won't matter who gets the blame... just who does or does not get the wins.

Dooley could have blamed Fulmer and Kiffin... and made some very good points. In the end, it didn't matter how bad the situation was when he took over. He didn't fix it and the trajectory of the program was not satisfactory.

Jones will be in that same boat if he follows this season up with another 5-7 effort or worse. Year 3 will be tough if his staff does not improve significantly next fall. It may not be fair... but it is reality.

 

[VFFL@THE BEACH]

NO! If there is one thing this program needs right now, it's stability with the coaches! Players come and go every four years but it takes a stable coaching staff to build recruiting ties and relationships with players.



Tennesseeduke

Anyone else feel like our OL did not fit the offensive scheme very well. The OL was built for a pro-style, down hill blocking every time type offense. Maybe we did not give the big guys enough good old fashioned down hill blocking schemes to wear out a defense? I am not trying to make exucses, seems like they could have stepped up a little more. I guess we will see what a new O line will look like in 2014. Maybe wishing the old oline was back!

 

[RWB427]

See my post above. Jones' current commits are about "average" for UT over the last 10 years or so with regard to "stars". UT is currently 9th overall and 7th in the SEC in avg stars... just ahead of USCe.

They better be able to coach guys up.

So 4 guys with multiple FBS offers and one even called the #1 QB in FL his Sr year... and none of them can be coached up? Sorry. Not buying.

Who said they didn't go after a QB? They were being selective but they have apparently made some runs at a few guys.

Auburn won the West and everyone knew they were going to run.

I would be less disappointed with the passing game if A) the improvement had been more noticeable and consistent and B) had the OC had a back up ready to play when Worley went out. It was painfully obvious that Dobbs was not ready to play. Why not? What have they been doing with the kid for 4+ months?

I find it pretty interesting that the guy you are convinced is the "best"... is the one guy who didn't get on the field. Maybe it was because of injury but if he was that good then he should have played earlier in the season, right?

1. I think the difference is Jones and staff is targeting kids and talent that fit what they want and what they envision the system being.

2. As far as the QB’s go, I don’t think there was ever any plan to play Ferguson or Dobbs. With that said, I don’t think 12 months going against their own defense would have had them anywhere near being prepared for the speed and ability of the typical SEC defense unless you consider the 80th best or whatever they finished defense in the country comparable to the defenses Dobbs faced.

Peterman is a pure example of how projections and ranking of players can be so far off in left field. Is he better than what he showed in the UF game? I think so but I doubt you will ever find out as long as he stays at UT because I don’t think he will get the opportunity to prove otherwise.

I think you answered you own question about Ferguson. I don’t think anyone would have wanted his first game experience as a starter to have been with a fractured leg. Talk about a confidence crusher if it went bad and it most likely would have. Again, I do not think there was ever a plan to play either of them but I do think you would have seen Ferguson over Dobbs had he not been injured. I think the plan was to get through this season with Worley and Peterman and then turn to Ferguson with better playmakers around him from the recruiting class and a years experience from North and company to assist him with being a starting QB in the SEC instead of freshman leaning on freshman. Just my opinion, time will tell.

3. If Butch and company went after a QB in the 2014 class I did not see it. It has been kept very hush or I just missed it. Either is possible I guess but I feel like if they thought they had to have a QB to compete next year there would have been a full court press on at least a 4* recruit. Again, maybe I just missed it.

4. Auburn also had a duel threat QB in Nick Marshall who was 119 of 201 for 1627 yards and 11 TD’s with a 59.2% completion average and a passer rating of 140.3. I think that is good enough numbers not to put 8 or 9 in the box to stop the run. He also had a great running back in Mason (1317 with 18 TD’s) and pretty reliable backups in Grant (585 with 5 TD’s) and Artis-Payne (573 with 5 TD’s).

I guess we can agree on one thing, we both want the Vols back on top, we just envision how it will happen differently. GBO!!!

 

[TVA]

In one sense we should not be making coaching changes. Those coaches may have recruited commits that could fall by the wayside. Also, it contradicts the "family" theme CBJ is building.

That said, the DC has not had the talent he needed to prove himself. My primary concern is the offensive play calling. It is less than plain vanilla. The defensive players rarely needed a coach to help them know what's coming. Run up the middle where the OL can't open a hole. Pass out to the flat, begging for an interception. Rinse. Repeat.

The OL has been useless in the run. It used to look good in pass protection. It really wasn't. Bray saved himself with quick decisions and his quick release. An entire new OL is not something to look forward to but we have to start somewhere.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Yes. But they signed with Dooley and especially the guys who really made the class "good".

And the tough break for Jones is that last year was pretty much the result of Dooley quitting recruiting sometime around mid-season at the latest. He needed to pull off a miracle to make that class good... and he couldn't. In the end... it won't matter who gets the blame... just who does or does not get the wins.

Dooley could have blamed Fulmer and Kiffin... and made some very good points. In the end, it didn't matter how bad the situation was when he took over. He didn't fix it and the trajectory of the program was not satisfactory.

Jones will be in that same boat if he follows this season up with another 5-7 effort or worse. Year 3 will be tough if his staff does not improve significantly next fall. It may not be fair... but it is reality.

Dooley was probably the worst recruiter in UT history. There are countless reports of high school coaches and players saying he never contacted them, Von Bell being most widely known example, and Jones almost got him to commit. Dooley was a failure in every sense of the word and should never have been hired here.

Before the '12 season I would have said Dooley should get one more season but by the end you could he had quit and the players had quit on him.

Since then it has become very apparent that it was definitely the right decision to fire him and shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

 

[tennezz]

Discontinuty is not what got us in this mess. It was Fulmer's laziness followed by the worst coach in NCAA history.

Butch Jones will not be successful with his current coordinators. Team appeared poorly coached all year. To think otherwise is more ostrich-like behavior here at VN following the Dooley fiasco. Unfortunately, Butch agrees with you, and it will likely be his undoing.

Just keep on. Butch gonna beat the hell outa you.

 

[rockytop114]

i watched the first half of the 2012 tenn vs mizzou game last night and man are team looked good if they could have only played that way all year

 

[RWB427]

So 4 guys with multiple FBS offers and one even called the #1 QB in FL his Sr year... and none of them can be coached up? Sorry. Not buying.

Who said they didn't go after a QB? They were being selective but they have apparently made some runs at a few guys.
QUOTE]

It looks like Butch and company think Ferguson is pretty good according to the report stating they showed Malone highlight videos of him in practice and in high school. I hope he is the next great Tennessee QB.

 

[PeytonManningVFL]

I know this is a fun discussion only thing but please step back and examine who is making these posts and assumptions and who is THE head football coach at the University of Tennessee...and when you realize just who is who in this vast pecking order of existance please kndly step back for 10 seconds...and realize you are making a fool out of yourselves...

 

[sjt18]

Anyone else feel like our OL did not fit the offensive scheme very well. The OL was built for a pro-style, down hill blocking every time type offense. Maybe we did not give the big guys enough good old fashioned down hill blocking schemes to wear out a defense? I am not trying to make exucses, seems like they could have stepped up a little more. I guess we will see what a new O line will look like in 2014. Maybe wishing the old oline was back!

No. Not really. If that's a valid reason... then prepare yourself because they guys they are recruiting are physically similar.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley was probably the worst recruiter in UT history. There are countless reports of high school coaches and players saying he never contacted them, Von Bell being most widely known example, and Jones almost got him to commit. Dooley was a failure in every sense of the word and should never have been hired here.

Probably should not have been hired but the choices weren't good when he was hired.

His recruiting was good the first year and decent the second year. I have seen the same rumors and don't know exactly how representative those anecdotes are.

He was pretty much done after the end of his 2nd year. He was spent then lost his staff. IMHO, he knew it was over long before the '12 season started. Yet in all of that... his 3 classes still produced as many or more contributors than the last 3 of Fulmer who was once a legendary recruiter.

Before the '12 season I would have said Dooley should get one more season but by the end you could he had quit and the players had quit on him.

He was teetering IMO no later than when he lost Rogers or maybe even as early as spring when he probably knew the change to the 3-4 and Sunseri was a big mistake.

He may not be a very good leader... but he's still a pretty smart guy.

There is no doubt that sometime between game 1 and game 12 he and the team quit.

Since then it has become very apparent that it was definitely the right decision to fire him and shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Under different circumstances, he might have been more successful... which would have probably been a bad thing for UT. If he beats LSU and/or UNC in '10... how much would that have helped him? If he doesn't lose to UK in '11... would that have helped enough?

But the really scary thought is that Hart was probably going to keep him if he had made a bowl last year. Taking a 9/10 win roster to 6 wins and a Who Cares Bowl would have saved him... and probably set the program back years.

 

[sjt18]

I know this is a fun discussion only thing but please step back and examine who is making these posts and assumptions and who is THE head football coach at the University of Tennessee...and when you realize just who is who in this vast pecking order of existance please kndly step back for 10 seconds...and realize you are making a fool out of yourselves...

This is a chat board... the REALLY foolish thing is someone who thinks ANY of us don't have a pretty good perspective on the "vast pecking order of existence" as it relates to UT football.

Thanks though... :ermm:

 

[PeytonManningVFL]

This is a chat board... the REALLY foolish thing is someone who thinks ANY of us don't have a pretty good perspective on the "vast pecking order of existence" as it relates to UT football.

Thanks though... :ermm:

Sometimes I do wonder................k:

 

[jps2194]

Sometimes I do wonder................k:

I'm still wondering exactly what you meant, LOL :hi: