Concerning the "Best Staff in the Country" jokes

[UTRavens]

A) It was a roster with holes... not a terrible team. Jones himself praised their willingness to do what they were told and work effort. This team underachieved by at least one win... and two blowouts.

No, it was a terrible team. When every single recruiting class leading up to the season has massive attrition, you're going to have a talent crisis. Tennessee did not have bowl caliber talent, it's that simple.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

No, it was a terrible team. When every single recruiting class leading up to the season has massive attrition, you're going to have a talent crisis. Tennessee did not have bowl caliber talent, it's that simple.

If you are trying to say that there wasn't enough talent on this team to win six games, yet they are a team that beat SC, then you are crazy.
People continue to point to the SC game as a sign of great coaching but then write off the Vandy loss due to lack of talent. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want it that way.

 

[LotteryPick]

If you are trying to say that there wasn't enough talent on this team to win six games, yet they are a team that beat SC, then you are crazy.
People continue to point to the SC game as a sign of great coaching but then write off the Vandy loss due to lack of talent. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want it that way.

You also can't focus solely on the Vandy game. (not saying you are)

New staffs often times win one they shouldn't and lose one they should have won. It happens.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I've been on several vacations where I said, "this is the best vacation ever". Guess I better stop doing that.
Better stop telling my middle kid his brothers are the best brothers in the world. Check that off my list. I'm flat out lying.
You look fine honey. Actually going to stick with that one.

 

[JOEY'S ALL VOL !!!]

No, it was a terrible team. When every single recruiting class leading up to the season has massive attrition, you're going to have a talent crisis. Tennessee did not have bowl caliber talent, it's that simple.

100% garbage.

 

[sjt18]

I love how turnovers simply don't count now.

Never said they didn't... Did I? The fact is that a Bama team ripped by dissention still managed to compete but slipped up for an embarrassing loss in spite of dominating the game statistically. It is also a fact that a UT team that had some talent and were praised by Jones for their attitude and togetherness was uncompetitive in 4 games and needed a late turnover to beat a team that finished 5th out of 8 teams in the Sun Belt Conference at home.... a team that was blown out by NAVY.

If Alabama played a better game, maybe they shouldn't have committed so many turnovers. Just a thought.

Sure. And if UT had been coached better and played a better game they would not have needed Randolph's pick in the End Zone to preserve a win over a middling Sun Belt team. Just a thought.

Oh by the way, Saban had much more talent to work with in his first year than Jones did in his. Once again, you're ignoring the talent aspect. Shame on you.

Really? Their top two RB's were Grant and Coffee. Grant is in jail iirc and Coffee enlisted in the Army after one year in the NFL. No other RB on that roster ever played in the NFL. Their QB went undrafted but has bounced with 3 different teams as a FA. None of their top 5 WR's are NFL players as best I can tell.

He was converting from the 4-3 to the 3-4 and had FAR less than ideal players for his system. Two of the top 5 in tackles were Fr. Most of the D contributors for that team were not NFL caliber players nor would they stand a chance of starting for Bama now.

I have not checked. But I suspect more Vols will be drafted this year than Bammers were drafted in 08.

The talent was on the 2013 UT roster if well coached to win 6 or 7 games.

 

[sjt18]

No, it was a terrible team. When every single recruiting class leading up to the season has massive attrition, you're going to have a talent crisis. Tennessee did not have bowl caliber talent, it's that simple.

Ridiculous statement vainly attempting to excuse a substandard performance.

 

[sjt18]

You also can't focus solely on the Vandy game. (not saying you are)

New staffs often times win one they shouldn't and lose one they should have won. It happens.

Vandy without the blowouts... OK. The blowouts without Vandy... less OK... but OK. The blowouts, poor performance vs USA, and the Vandy loss... those results kind of overwhelm the point you are trying to make here.

 

[sjt18]

I've been on several vacations where I said, "this is the best vacation ever". Guess I better stop doing that.
Better stop telling my middle kid his brothers are the best brothers in the world. Check that off my list. I'm flat out lying.
You look fine honey. Actually going to stick with that one.

Apple... meet Orange. You two have nothing in common other than sharing the same fruit bowl... but someone is bound to say you are the same.

Jones wasn't speaking figuratively. I actually admire him for having that kind of confidence in the guys he brought in. I hope he is rewarded big time. But don't act like it was an incidental statement... or hyperbole. That does not fit the context.

 

[butchna]

Vandy without the blowouts... OK. The blowouts without Vandy... less OK... but OK. The blowouts, poor performance vs USA, and the Vandy loss... those results kind of overwhelm the point you are trying to make here.

You'll be doing this for another hour? :hi: Gotta go to the store...maybe Bed Bath & Beyond! k:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[LotteryPick]

Vandy without the blowouts... OK. The blowouts without Vandy... less OK... but OK. The blowouts, poor performance vs USA, and the Vandy loss... those results kind of overwhelm the point you are trying to make here.

I've had this discussion with you before, so there's no sense in taking it any further.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I've also never heard someone say an apple was the same as an orange while pointing at a fruit bowl holding both.

 

[UTRavens]

If you are trying to say that there wasn't enough talent on this team to win six games, yet they are a team that beat SC, then you are crazy.
People continue to point to the SC game as a sign of great coaching but then write off the Vandy loss due to lack of talent. You can't have it both ways no matter how much you want it that way.

I want it both ways, huh? Prove it. What have I said about the South Carolina game in the past?

South Carolina and Vanderbilt were both one game sample sizes. That's it, nothing more.

 

[UTRavens]

Ridiculous statement vainly attempting to excuse a substandard performance.

Why, because you said so? The roster was garbage after years of recruiting classes falling apart early on. You cant deny that. Tennessee had less talent than their opponents in 7 of 12 games last year.

 

[Burger]

Who is this "they" you're speaking of? Go read the 'tweets' thread at the top of the page and go back to last August. According to Butch and the rest of the staff the team bought in.

So what went wrong? Why weren't they "truly" playing and acting like a team? Who's fault was that?

It takes a lot of time together and playing in the same scheme. All the guys you mentioned did it in their second year. Jones' second year hasn't even happened yet. You can buy in, but if you don't know how to play together it doesn't matter. On the field, this team was trying to play together, but its not quite there yet. The plays were there to be made, but our players did not make them. I'd say the 4 or 5 years before Jones can be blamed for our guys not knowing instinctually what to do. Football knowledge is built over time like anything else. Don't let instant gratification get in the way.

 

[Burger]

Yes. And if it takes him 3 years to accomplish then he's not very good at that job... at least not good enough to compete in the SEC.

You do remember that a team under ideal circumstances turns an average of 20% of its roster each year, right? If it takes 3 years... then it NEVER happens. You constantly have "new teams" in college football with their own character and ability.


BTW, I understand that football is a "team sport" and had the fortune of playing for one of the best coaches in the history of NC HSFB. But why did you think that was a good point for excusing Jones' failures?

Nobody can turn **** into gold in one year. Auburn wasn't **** as they actually had talent. We're still battling attrition and bad recruiting. 5 wins was actually the expectation, but we all wanted 6. Jones ended with a +0, which is not suprising. Let next year happen before you judge.

 

[Boca Vol]

It takes a lot of time together and playing in the same scheme. All the guys you mentioned did it in their second year. Jones' second year hasn't even happened yet. You can buy in, but if you don't know how to play together it doesn't matter. On the field, this team was trying to play together, but its not quite there yet. The plays were there to be made, but our players did not make them. I'd say the 4 or 5 years before Jones can be blamed for our guys not knowing instinctually what to do. Football knowledge is built over time like anything else. Don't let instant gratification get in the way.

Good grief! So there's no need to get excited or expect ANYTHING from this incoming recruiting class until 2016? That's ridiculous!

These kids know the game of football. They aren't as stupid as you're making them out to be. It doesn't take 3-4 years.

 

[sjt18]

Why, because you said so?

No. Because you are using an argument that is a valid REASON for UT not to compete for the East but totally invalid as an excuse for not making a bowl game.

The roster was garbage after years of recruiting classes falling apart early on. You cant deny that. Tennessee had less talent than their opponents in 7 of 12 games last year.

No. They didn't have less talent than 7 of their opponents.

That "garbage" roster in just the '14 draft will have more than 5 players drafted. It was not deep and did have holes. That makes an expectation of competing for the East unreasonable. But they had great talent on the OL, good talent at RB, 4 talented options at QB, size and athleticism on the DL... they had some things to work with.

 

[sjt18]

It takes a lot of time together and playing in the same scheme. All the guys you mentioned did it in their second year. Jones' second year hasn't even happened yet. You can buy in, but if you don't know how to play together it doesn't matter. On the field, this team was trying to play together, but its not quite there yet. The plays were there to be made, but our players did not make them. I'd say the 4 or 5 years before Jones can be blamed for our guys not knowing instinctually what to do. Football knowledge is built over time like anything else. Don't let instant gratification get in the way.

All of the guys he mentioned I believe improved their teams immediately. They were more competitive and won more games in the first year. Would all of them collectively in their first years have 4 blowout losses?

 

[sjt18]

Nobody can turn **** into gold in one year.

No. But people can sure claim that something is **** to excuse coaches from the responsibility of getting the most out of a roster.

Auburn wasn't **** as they actually had talent.

Go back to the pre-season threads. I am one of the few people here who recognized that BEFORE the season. I believe I even said a couple of times that Auburn was more talented than USCe. I also accurately said that UT was in the same talent range as USCe and would have a good chance of winning that game... and that many of the matchups actually favored UT.

We're still battling attrition and bad recruiting.

That's a better reason for humble expectations in '14 than in '13. UT returned talented seniors last year. Yes it was a new staff and a system change on O. There was a less significant change on D. Definitely not as radical as taking guys had always run a 4-3 as Bama's had and converting to the 3-4. But it really wasn't those guys who prevented enough wins to make a bowl game.

So many here cite the failure of previous coaches or coaching turnover for poor development but the OL, Neal, Lane, Worley to an extent, Miller, Sapp, Randolph,.... the guys most dependent on the development and coaching of the previous coaches were the ones who played better. It was the guys needed to fill in the openings, the ones dependent on THIS STAFF'S development efforts, that didn't come through.

5 wins was actually the expectation, but we all wanted 6. Jones ended with a +0, which is not suprising.

NO. That is pure historical revisionism. MOST expected six. They counted on Vandy and Mizzou with the USCe victory accounting for the Mizzou loss. With elite coaching, it was a 7 win roster.

Let next year happen before you judge.

I am not judging. I am looking at their performance in ONE YEAR critically and voicing criticisms. I will not "judge" before year 3. I avoided public criticisms of Fulmer and Dooley because I used to think it hurt matters... but I mostly advocated a wait for judgment until they had had a full opportunity to turn things around.

I hold the exact same attitude toward Jones but no longer think it is necessary or even good to withhold criticisms of failures. He makes a lot of money. Expectations of fans SHOULD be high and pressure should mount if he doesn't perform.

 

[sjt18]

Here is my "hope" so you guys can understand that the criticisms and recognitions of failure ARE balanced with "positive" thoughts.

I HOPE that what we saw this year was nothing less than a stubborn adherence to a system. I HOPE that they consciously refused to adapt to the roster they inherited but instead tried to fit it to their system as best they could while developing the underclassmen to be more suited to their system. I HOPE that system will actually work in the SEC. I HOPE that the system is so execution oriented that even less talented and overall experienced players will excel in it after 2.5 years of being in it.

But... these hopes are nothing but hope. They're speculation. The only tangible results we have to talk about were not good. They were subpar.

 

[Spartacavolus]

it was last year, but maybe we can keep saying the same things over and over well into 2015

 

[sjt18]

BTW, hopefully some of you guys got the chance to read the article on the front page about coaching turnover. UT's actually has not been extraordinary over the past few years when compared to other SEC programs. MOST of Dooley's assistants and all of Kiffin's had solid resumes.

 

[sjt18]

it was last year, but maybe we can keep saying the same things over and over well into 2015

Only if it is true.

BTW, I have avoided this conversation for several weeks if you have not noticed trying to let it die. It was another excuse maker who started the thread and the conversation up again.

I'd like to start focusing on the future. I'd like to start thinking on those "hopes" rather than the '13 results. Maybe talk to your pals about quitting with the excuses?

 

[Spartacavolus]

Only if it is true.

BTW, I have avoided this conversation for several weeks if you have not noticed trying to let it die. It was another excuse maker who started the thread and the conversation up again.

I'd like to start focusing on the future. I'd like to start thinking on those "hopes" rather than the '13 results. Maybe talk to your pals about quitting with the excuses?

I haven't noticed anything except I opened up a thread and I see you repeat yourself over and over. Keep away from the ff for the most part About **** that happened months ago, and things you have said daily/weekly since November.
Coaches have to coach better and we need more talent. Neither point is debatable.