consider......

[volfan411]

If you're referring to the USA game what are you basing it on?

Take last year's Troy game. UT actually trailed by 7 in the 4th quarter of that game. UT scored 2 td's and had 2 4th down holds late in the game.

Similar games, similar results.

Hence the my opinion part of the statement and there is no fact to base it on. I had no faith at all in Dooley when the game was on the line.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley didn't have a number two recruiting class right now.

That's true. Assuming the kids in this class stay eligible and develop as expected, this will be one of the best UT has ever had regardless of who else they add.

 

[Boca Vol]

Hence the my opinion part of the statement and there is no fact to base it on. I had no faith at all in Dooley when the game was on the line.

That's fine. No worries.

After the USA game, there were several posters on here stating that Dooley would have found a way to lose that game. History proves otherwise.

IMO, Vol fans are looking for anything positive to hold on to. If that means dropping Dooley a few more notches to make Jones look better, so be it. It's not reality, though.

I'm not saying Butch isn't a better coach than Dooley. We, as UT fans, hope he is.

 

[volfan411]

Receiver yes. Both of the others inherited worse situations at RB. Jones inherited a "better" situation at QB in that his first guy up was not J Crompton with shattered confidence or M Simms.

That's actually not true. I think I see what Jones is doing and the problems have nothing to do with the players not fitting.

When he says "brick by brick", he's not just talking about recruits and such. He's talking about his system as well. His O especially builds on itself. He starts with the foundation and they stay there until they master it. Then they add something that varies off those foundational plays. Then they add something else... and so on. Before adding, the last level has to be mastered.

That's why we saw some brand new looks and plays vs UGA... and why we are likely to see even more vs USC.

If these are the wrong kinds of players... he has a funny way of showing it. He's recruiting basically the same kind.



I don't remember that but hopefully we agree. There is a lack of depth but some good players on the D. Sal was so bad it just about had to get better.

PS- I still miss Wilcox though. I knew he was good but he was better than even I thought.

Did Kiffin not have Hardesty or am I mistaken.

We agreed on the defense but I was basing my opinion on the improvement from last season to this year and you were basing it on the improvement this season.

I totally agree with you on Jones philosophy and maybe I should have said a QB that better fits his system. I do not think we will see his entire playbook until we have a QB that is not afraid to run the ball. I believe Worley is adequate and a few of the tweaks they made really seemed to help him.

Forgot to say I really liked Wilcox and Simon as well.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Yes they did. Kiffin's MLB and both OG's were walk ons. He started a Fr at RT. By year's end, three or 4 true Fr had started at LB and iirc a couple in the secondary.

Dooley's first team started at one point or another 3 or 4 Fr on the OL, a Fr QB, a walk on at DT, a Fr at DE... His first two teams had 17 Fr each who played significant roles.

Jones did not inherit a great roster or a roster without holes. He DID inherit a better situation than either Kiffin or Dooley.

I am not particularly comfortable siding with the other guy but you need to get your facts straight before questioning HIS IQ.

A walk-on MLB who was a consensus first team All-SEC performer and who led the SEC in tackles.

Kiffin inherited six NFL draft picks (two first rounders), the aforementioned all-SEC performer, and two guys who didn't get drafted but drew an NFL paycheck. Moreover, Kiffin managed to run-off a similar amount of NFL talent as well as a QB who is a front-runner for the Heisman trophy.

I think Dooley is an absolute tool, but the Kiffin Katastrophe did make his job hard. Kiffin inherited a buttload of talent, and it is no mystery why we have gotten progressively worse the further away from Fulmer.

Having said all that, Butch gets it. We are on the up. Kiffin inherited a "Dream Job" but clearly didn't realize it.

 

[volfan411]

That's fine. No worries.

After the USA game, there were several posters on here stating that Dooley would have found a way to lose that game. History proves otherwise.

IMO, Vol fans are looking for anything positive to hold on to. If that means dropping Dooley a few more notches to make Jones look better, so be it. It's not reality, though.

I'm not saying Butch isn't a better coach than Dooley. We, as UT fans, hope he is.

Yes I agree with trying to find the positives. I never liked Dooley from his first news conference to the day he was fired so I may be over the top with my opinion of Jones.

 

[volfan411]

A walk-on MLB who was a consensus first team All-SEC performer and who led the SEC in tackles.

Kiffin inherited six NFL draft picks (two first rounders), the aforementioned all-SEC performer, and two guys who didn't get drafted but drew an NFL paycheck. Moreover, Kiffin managed to run-off a similar amount of NFL talent as well as a QB who is a front-runner for the Heisman trophy.

I think Dooley is an absolute tool, but the Kiffin Katastrophe did make his job hard. Kiffin inherited a buttload of talent, and it is no mystery why we have gotten progressively worse the further away from Fulmer.

Having said all that, Butch gets it. We are on the up. Kiffin inherited a "Dream Job" but clearly didn't realize it.

The thing I really like about Jones is he truly wants to be here and Kiffin and Dooley never seemed to embrace Tennessee and our traditions.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You can't qualify a fan/not a fan that way. Who exactly do you think you are? If I thought Dooley was BETTER than Jones (which I don't) that would have absolutely no bearing on whether I'm a fan or not. That "reasoning" is stupid.

And frankly, whatever Jones did prior to UT is nice... and will always help his resume... but I ONLY care about what he does at UT... IN THE SEC.

I've looked at Jones tenure at Cincy... have you? What was his best win and what was the record of that team?

I like what he's doing and especially in recruiting. I EXPECT that he's going to get his big win soon because of the improvement you can see in the team's play... but he STILL has to prove himself.

Jones has NOT proven himself on the field yet. PERIOD. And no, there is no ambiguity in the word "better". Kiffin was "better" according to you than Fulmer because he didn't get blown out by Bama or UF like Fulmer had made a habit of doing. Sorry... but no. We now know that Kiffin was NOT a good coach. Why? Because he COULD NOT WIN GAMES.

Yes I can qualify someone a fan that way, you know why? Because its my opinion. You ever heard of that? Who am I? Who are you? Do ou not have an opinion? It doesn't matter if mine is right or wrong, it's my opinion.

I said nothing about Fulmer or Kiffin. You did so those points are moot. How could what I said be misconstrued into saying Kiffin is a better coach than Fulmer? Your analogies are retarded.

All I said was Jones was a winning coach before coming here, Dooley was not. That's a fact. Kiffin was a loser before coming here. Fulmer cannot be argued in that fashion because he was promoted as a head coach and had never been a head coach anywhere else.

Yes Jones has proven himself. He has a young team with pretty much a freshman QB and a young defense. The team gave the number 6 team in the country all they could handle. Yes we lost but so what? We were expected to get blown out and not only did we compete but were close to pulling one of the biggest upsets of the year. If you honestly cannot see how much better Jones is than Dooley, even this early then you are either a Jones hater or you don't understand football that much.

 

[VolGee4]

Yes they did. Kiffin's MLB and both OG's were walk ons. He started a Fr at RT. By year's end, three or 4 true Fr had started at LB and iirc a couple in the secondary.

Dooley's first team started at one point or another 3 or 4 Fr on the OL, a Fr QB, a walk on at DT, a Fr at DE... His first two teams had 17 Fr each who played significant roles.

Jones did not inherit a great roster or a roster without holes. He DID inherit a better situation than either Kiffin or Dooley.

Um... wrong again. UT's D this year is not young on the DL, at LB, or at S.... or even at one CB spot. They do have youth in the two deep but many teams do.



I am not particularly comfortable siding with the other guy but you need to get your facts straight before questioning HIS IQ.

You can argue that CBJ inherited better talent than DD but not Kiffin. We have been over this before. Kiffin had an All American at safety and NFL talent at DL, OL, RB and good experience at WR and a senior QB. CBJ does not have great experience at safety- McNiel is a sophomore who did not play all of last year and Randolph tire his ACL against UF. Game experience is not a whole lot.

 

[Reivax26]

A famous coach once said: "A good coach can take a lot of talent and win with it, but a great coach can take a little bit of talent and win with it."

To me, Butch Jones personifies this quote to the tee. Everywhere he's ever been he's had teams full of players that were 2 and 3 stars. He was successful with them. He won championships with them.

I see what he is laying the foundation for and I like it a lot. Its a fast paced offense that relies on timing and precision to beat a defense. It isn't about just a vertical passing attack or just a power running game, the system is designed to hit a defense from so many different angles that they don't know what the hell is going on. Our defense is going to get a lot faster than it is now. It will still be a physical, hard hitting D but it will be quite a bit quicker.

I have already seen huge improvements from the AP game all the way up through the Georgia game. This team is getting a lot better. The key moving forward is for them to be able to keep up the momentum from the 2nd half of the game last week.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

You don't get it.

No, I think he does unless moral victories are your cup of tea. If so, then by all means, proceed.