Coronavirus may have cracked the telecommuting code

#51
#51
This is one of those things school touched on but never dove deep into. The joke is that Architects are familiar with everything but masters of nothing.

We were taught, maybe wrongly, that generally an open space is going to provide less exposure to a disease than a small one. Basically if you are in a small space and a disease shows up that can survive in the air or a surface, anyone in that small space is bonded, because that one person is going to have a much higher exposure. Which they will then transfer, bringing the hotspot with them wherever they go.

And open space you are more likely to be exposed but the amount you are exposed to is going to be less, which could mean your body has a better chance to fight off more smaller waves. Generally of course. And that with fewer "hot spots" your overall risk factor is lower. That plus the airflow. Generally any conditioned moving air is going to be drier than more stagnant air. In most offices the biggest source of humidity is the human body, we are always sweating some amount. In a small office with less airflow it will be more humid. In a large space that humidity gets diluted and moved faster than a closed office.Which is not as good for a disease to sit there, even if constantly provided by one sick person.
 
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#52
#52
LouderVol said:
This is one of those things school touched on but never dove deep into. The joke is that Architects are familiar with everything but masters of nothing.

We were taught, maybe wrongly, that generally an open space is going to provide less exposure to a disease than a small one. Basically if you are in a small space and a disease shows up that can survive in the air or a surface, anyone in that small space is bonded, because that one person is going to have a much higher exposure. Which they will then transfer, bringing the hotspot with them wherever they go.

And open space you are more likely to be exposed but the amount you are exposed to is going to be less, which could mean your body has a better chance to fight off more smaller waves. Generally of course. And that with fewer "hot spots" your overall risk factor is lower. That plus the airflow. Generally any conditioned moving air is going to be drier than more stagnant air. In most offices the biggest source of humidity is the human body, we are always sweating some amount. In a small office with less airflow it will be more humid. In a large space that humidity gets diluted and moved faster than a closed office.Which is not as good for a disease to sit there, even if constantly provided by one sick person.
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Yup, everything i was ever taught about infection control goes along with what you stated.
 
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#53
#53
NorthDallas40 said:
We as engineers absolutely despise the open office collaborative work environment. Our weird brains need to close off our surroundings so we can focus.

One of the recurring rhetoric lines is the younger generation of engineers prefers this type of office as it helps them collaborate! My own polling results? From mild disdain to vehement rejection. Pretty much the same as us older out of touch not hip engineers.
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My BIL is an engineer. He has said as much.
 
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#54
#54
We were taught to think of diseases as any other airborne contaminant. Would you rather be in a small confined space with relatively less contaminant? Or a large space with airflow but relatively higher ppm of contanimant. Obviously there is a line somewhere, but if you have similar sources you are better off in the large space.

The other other side of this is proximity. If you are going to be in a close condition with a known continamant it's better to have the physical separation so that it has to work it's way to you. But that only helps in immidatecy. So if the first person to cough is behind a wall you are more likely to get out and be fine than if they were just 6 feet away. But if they are sitting there coughing all day your little office with a shared air system just concentrates it.

All of this is based on airborne diseases acting somewhat similar to smoke or whatnot.
 
#55
#55
It's not just goodbye open office concept, it's goodbye to many white collar office spaces period. Yes, there will still be some offices, but they will be smaller (not all employees need to be in them everyday) and smaller in number. Some businesses will need space to see clients, interview people, etc., but not massive spaces in every city. There will be big downsizing.

I'd be really nervous if I was an owner of a lot of white collar commercial office space right now. I think some of the "the world is never going to be the same" predictions are overblown, but I do see this having a permanent impact on the need for commercial office space. That entire industry is going to have to re-adjust.
 
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#56
#56
LouderVol said:
We were taught to think of diseases as any other airborne contaminant. Would you rather be in a small confined space with relatively less contaminant? Or a large space with airflow but relatively higher ppm of contanimant. Obviously there is a line somewhere, but if you have similar sources you are better off in the large space.

The other other side of this is proximity. If you are going to be in a close condition with a known continamant it's better to have the physical separation so that it has to work it's way to you. But that only helps in immidatecy. So if the first person to cough is behind a wall you are more likely to get out and be fine than if they were just 6 feet away. But if they are sitting there coughing all day your little office with a shared air system just concentrates it.

All of this is based on airborne diseases acting somewhat similar to smoke or whatnot.
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Reminds me of the beginnings of the discovery of Legionairres disease.
 
#57
#57
05_never_again said:
It's not just goodbye open office concept, it's goodbye to many white collar office spaces period. Yes, there will still be some offices, but they will be smaller (not all employees need to be in them everyday) and smaller in number.

I'd be really nervous if I was an owner of a lot of white collar commercial office space right now. I think some of the "the world is never going to be the same" predictions are overblown, but I do see this having a permanent impact on the need for commercial office space. That entire industry is going to have to re-adjust.
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Every commercial you see now is touting how we can all do the same stuff online as in person. This doesn't apply to me but I could see how it would affect those that can work from home.
 
#58
#58
05_never_again said:
It's not just goodbye open office concept, it's goodbye to many white collar office spaces period. Yes, there will still be some offices, but they will be smaller (not all employees need to be in them everyday) and smaller in number. Some businesses will need space to see clients, interview people, etc., but not massive spaces in every city. There will be big downsizing.

I'd be really nervous if I was an owner of a lot of white collar commercial office space right now. I think some of the "the world is never going to be the same" predictions are overblown, but I do see this having a permanent impact on the need for commercial office space. That entire industry is going to have to re-adjust.
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That argument against working from home just went out the window for many companies. I’m sure a lot of them now see the opportunity to oblige and shrink their office footprint.
 
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#61
#61
NorthDallas40 said:
I’m already fortunate enough to have my ivory tower and not sit in a goat pen.

But after corporate America has spent so much effort trying to convince workers that being corralled like so much cattle is good for productivity now they might be forced to rethink that stance to be considered “pandemic proof” going forward? Maybe this was worth it after all.

What the future of work will look like (opinion) - CNN
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Yeah, I spoke about this a few weeks ago.

VolNation - Coronavirus may have cracked the telecommuting code
 
#62
#62
DC_Vol said:
That argument against working from home just went out the window for many companies. I’m sure a lot of them now see the opportunity to oblige and shrink their office footprint.
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At the very least, the stigma many companies have against it is going away. Many companies don't like it, but if their staffs have been doing it for 2 months with minimal or no disruption, kind of hard to argue against it now.
 
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#63
#63
Not on subject but sorta relative. If you are in a service industry there is a lot of opportunity out there to increase business. We're seeing a pretty sizable uptick in inquiries and new business due to the lack of customer service and communication from some of our competitors. There is opportunity out there because a lot of people have used the virus as an excuse for a vacation.
 
#64
#64
hog88 said:
Not on subject but sorta relative. If you are in a service industry there is a lot of opportunity out there to increase business. We're seeing a pretty sizable uptick in inquiries and new business due to the lack of customer service and communication from some of our competitors. There is opportunity out there because a lot of people have used the virus as an excuse for a vacation.
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Opportunity knocks.
 
#65
#65
05_never_again said:
At the very least, the stigma many companies have against it is going away.
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I don’t see a stigma with it at all (not disagreeing that many people do). I encourage people who work from me to work at home whenever they want. As long as they deliver the goods...that’s all I care about.

If you have a person working for you who doesn’t get the job done from home, bringing them into an office to micromanage doesn’t really fix the root cause.
 
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#66
#66
open concept is fine for my job and works well. I overhear lots of conversations that are relevant but can disappear if I need with a pair of headphones and a do not disturb sign. Probably had a lot to do with spending a few years in a sales pit of 30-40 and figuring out how to block out distractions
 
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#67
#67
NurseGoodVol said:
Reminds me of the beginnings of the discovery of Legionairres disease.
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Yeah we touched on a number of the illnesses that effected people in big cities and how design impacted those.

What's funny is it all pretty much boils down to is that we evolved or spent all our time outside in the open air. Suddenly changing that has consquences we had no way to predict.
 
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#68
#68
DC_Vol said:
That argument against working from home just went out the window for many companies. I’m sure a lot of them now see the opportunity to oblige and shrink their office footprint.
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I was thinking about new hires and not meeting some coworkers. It's like us working with some sub consultants for years but never meeting them, until one weird moment in a meeting "wooh, you're Gus? It's nice to meet you."
 
#69
#69
utvolpj said:
open concept is fine for my job and works well. I overhear lots of conversations that are relevant but can disappear if I need with a pair of headphones and a do not disturb sign. Probably had a lot to do with spending a few years in a sales pit of 30-40 and figuring out how to block out distractions
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It's become white noise for me and generally helps me focus. Also leads to some good learning opportunities, and thankfully my firm generally doesnt mind people listening in, as we work so much together. It may not immediately be helpful but if it sparks something in the long run it's worth the little innefiency it might cause.
 
#72
#72
With idiot companies like mine I just wish they’d be honest and own the real reason.

“Look, we need to up the density by about 30-40% because supposedly we have to hire more of you over educated high priced prima donas and we don’t have the floor space for you and we can’t afford a new building be cause we had to hire a bunch more of you over educated high priced prima donas.”

I’d still hate their guts over it but I would at least respect their honesty. Don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining.
 
#73
#73
NorthDallas40 said:
With idiot companies like mine I just wish they’d be honest and own the real reason.

“Look, we need to up the density by about 30-40% because supposedly we have to hire more of you over educated high priced prima donas and we don’t have the floor space for you and we can’t afford a new building be cause we had to hire a bunch more of you over educated high priced prima donas.”

I’d still hate their guts over it but I would at least respect their honesty. Don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining.
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I think part of it was also done to woo Millennials, who stereotypically don't automatically like or respect authority just because. By taking the managers out of offices and onto the floor with everyone else, that's supposed to make it feel like everyone is on the same level. Symbolic, BS gestures like that are supposed to make them "feel" like part of a team or something.
 
#75
#75
05_never_again said:
I think part of it was also done to woo Millennials, who stereotypically don't automatically like or respect authority just because. By taking the managers out of offices and onto the floor with everyone else, that's supposed to make it feel like everyone is on the same level. Symbolic, BS gestures like that are supposed to make them "feel" like part of a team or something.
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The millenial engineers I know hate it just as much as the rest of us. But to your pinky maybe they’re happier that the senior engineers and mgrs are miserable too. That would fit the model.

But... that backfired a bit. I’ve still got my ivory tower and most likely will until I retire (knock on Herman Miller modular fake wood).

And they’re being forced to go back in and rip out some open areas and install walled/doored offices.... because senior engineers and mgrs won’t sit in their goat pens and find ways to modify their work schedule to avoid it. Score one for the passive aggressive high priced over educated and EXPERIENCED prima donas.
 
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