Crime and the United States

#1,077
#1,077
whodeycin85 said:
A rope and tree?? A lot less then a medical procedure..the cost of capital punishment lies in the cost of the housing and appeals and medical attention..if you cut out the cost of medical it saves money.
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Wrong again.

It has nothing to do with housing them, or providing them medical care.
 
#1,081
#1,081
85SugarVol said:
Wrong again.

It has nothing to do with housing them, or providing them medical care.
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True. Sometimes the imprisoned hasn't exhausted their appeals. And that may be due in part to backlogged cases. Sometimes they might have a really skilled Innocent Project lawyer whose arguments forces delay after delay. In extraordinary, rare cases, families of the alleged victim may request delays because they have probable misidentification or other evidence strong enough to cast doubt on the conviction. The legal system has so many twists, turns, and tunnels unrelated to housing. Eager to kill states like Alabama, Texas, and I think Missouri have quite a few cases where a person was executed and later found to be actually innocent.
 
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#1,082
#1,082
WoodsmanVol said:
True. Sometimes the imprisoned hasn't exhausted their appeals. And that may be due in part to backlogged cases. Sometimes they might have a really skilled Innocent Project lawyer whose arguments forces delay after delay. In extraordinary, rare cases, families of the alleged victim may request delays because they have probable misidentification or other evidence strong enough to cast doubt on the conviction. The legal system has so many twists, turns, and tunnels unrelated to housing. Eager to kill states like Alabama, Texas, and I think Missouri have quite a few cases where a person was executed and later found to be actually innocent.
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willing to bet real money any state that has more than a few executions in its history has quite a few dead innocents.

I would also be curious to know the general groups thought on is there a difference of someone being killed from the death penalty vs dying in prison from other causes if both are different? is an innocent person who serves a true life sentence less of a tragedy than someone the state kills on a incorrect death penalty?
 
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#1,084
#1,084
LouderVol said:
willing to bet real money any state that has more than a few executions in its history has quite a few dead innocents.

I would also be curious to know the general groups thought on is there a difference of someone being killed from the death penalty vs dying in prison from other causes if both are different? is an innocent person who serves a true life sentence less of a tragedy than someone the state kills on a incorrect death penalty?
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No less of a tragedy but the person serving natural life has longer to correct the wrong.
 
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#1,087
#1,087
hog88 said:
Appeals.
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And the timeframe, which is housing and medical costs...to allow for appeals..then the human treatment of the needle is 1000s of dollars as well and the cost of the chair..there are cheaper alternatives...

I know you against the death penalty..I have a question ...I know you prefer 0 innocents killed by capital punishment...my question is how pften does a 0 tolerance work for stopping anything?? How realistic is 0 tolerance??? Is there 0 tolerance for the bombings in Palestine or are there acceptable losses??
 
#1,088
#1,088
whodeycin85 said:
And the timeframe, which is housing and medical costs...to allow for appeals..then the human treatment of the needle is 1000s of dollars as well and the cost of the chair..there are cheaper alternatives...

I know you against the death penalty..I have a question ...I know you prefer 0 innocents killed by capital punishment...my question is how pften does a 0 tolerance work for stopping anything?? How realistic is 0 tolerance??? Is there 0 tolerance for the bombings in Palestine or are there acceptable losses??
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No doubt there are much cheaper options to kill someone than lethal injection but the main reason it costs so much to execute someone is the legal bills.

I ask you why risk executing an innocent person when we don't have to? Innocents get killed in war, most nations try to mitigate that but it happens and once war breaks out you can't just quit because some innocents might be killed. There is no pressing reason for the death penalty.
 
#1,089
#1,089
hog88 said:
No doubt there are much cheaper options to kill someone than lethal injection but the main reason it costs so much to execute someone is the legal bills.

I ask you why risk executing an innocent person when we don't have to? Innocents get killed in war, most nations try to mitigate that but it happens and once war breaks out you can't just quit because some innocents might be killed. There is no pressing reason for the death penalty.
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The risk is to keep order. Harsher punishments lead to less crime and violence...there will never be a 0 s game for anything..but lll take 99% of it makes our society safer.
We disagree on a pressing reason for the death penalty..
 
#1,090
#1,090
whodeycin85 said:
The risk is to keep order. Harsher punishments lead to less crime and violence...there will never be a 0 s game for anything..but lll take 99% of it makes our society safer.
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Then you should easily be able to post some data backing up this claim.

I think you'll be surprised just how wrong you are.
 
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#1,091
#1,091
hog88 said:
Then you should easily be able to post some data backing up this claim.

I think you'll be surprised just how wrong you are.
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Actually in the United Arab emerates, North Korea, Saudi Arab all have the harshest punishments and lower crime rates...
The reason it's not been shown effective here is that it's not done publicly so criminals don't realize it..now say 50 years of it and you'll see a major difference..so initially we agree it wouldn't have a huge impact.
 
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#1,092
#1,092
whodeycin85 said:
Actually in the United Arab emerates, North Korea, Saudi Arab all have the harshest punishments and lower crime rates...
The reason it's not been shown effective here is that it's not done publicly so criminals don't realize it..now say 50 years of it and you'll see a major difference..so initially we agree it wouldn't have a huge impact.
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Those countries you mention also have no civil rights protections and pencil whip reports if they publish reports at all.
 
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#1,093
#1,093
LouderVol said:
willing to bet real money any state that has more than a few executions in its history has quite a few dead innocents.

I would also be curious to know the general groups thought on is there a difference of someone being killed from the death penalty vs dying in prison from other causes if both are different? is an innocent person who serves a true life sentence less of a tragedy than someone the state kills on a incorrect death penalty?
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What I think is the greatest tragedy is people jailed or executed when either or both cops and persecutors know s/he's innocent. But want to pad their conviction stats or out of spite promote imprisonment of death penalty anyway. Then, in the few incidents where they are later proven to have done so, receive no penalty.
 
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#1,096
#1,096
hog88 said:
There is no data from any country that proves harsher punishments deter crime.
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What data would you like? Because like you said in those countries info is hard to come by..by you can Google countries with the lowest crime rates and those with the harshest punishment and cross reference..but again you won't find a study from Western societies proving that because the impact is several generations not immediate.
 
#1,098
#1,098
whodeycin85 said:
What data would you like? Because like you said in those countries info is hard to come by..by you can Google countries with the lowest crime rates and those with the harshest punishment and cross reference..but again you won't find a study from Western societies proving that because the impact is several generations not immediate.
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I would like data that shows harsher punishment has led to a reduction in crime.
 
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#1,099
#1,099
whodeycin85 said:
@hog88 you believe in the 2A right??
Why does open carrying a gun deter the chances you be criminalized?
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100% support the 2A as written.

Does it? What happens to the person open carrying when they get it wrong and are involved in a bad shooting? What happens to the state, prosecutor, police that convict an innocent person and they are executed?
 
#1,100
#1,100
hog88 said:
100% support the 2A as written.

Does it? What happens to the person open carrying when they get it wrong and are involved in a bad shooting? What happens to the state, prosecutor, police that convict an innocent person and they are executed?
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Good questions, I cannot answer those as I don't have enough legal experiences to know how that would effect things..and yes carrying a gun does..why do you think women are encouraged to carry guns, sprays, tasers they are deterrents.
 
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