Dave Van Horn whines about Tony V out-hustling him, leading to dust up

#26
#26
SGMVols said:
If DVH wants to end the unwritten rule about not pursuing another school’s commits then he’d better understand that door swings both ways. Don’t get mad when Tony starts recruiting your commits too.
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I think that’s the piece he was alluding to when he said some things that happened 3-4 years ago that he never brought up when TV left. Solaurie was committed to Arkansas until TV left and wound up at JUCO his FR year (TV’s first year in Knoxville) then at UT for the next 2 years. DVH believes TV talked him out of Arkansas and helped place him at a JUCO.
 
#27
#27
I think some of these posts didn't understand the article. CTV got pissed at DVH for recruiting a guy from Arkansas that is committed to CTV. DVH responded that the old days of baseball are gone, and commitments don't mean as much anymore. Seems like a fairly routine disagreement that was made public due to the on-field blowup.

Edit: CTV did go into Arkansas to get the commitment first. He out-hustled DVH in that regard. However, DVH wasn't upset about that. He was upset that CTV was upset that Arkansas kept recruiting him afterwards. This is pretty standard, even more so in football?!
 
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#28
#28
The kid is not in Arkansas. He was playing at a JUCO in Missouri that Vitello has great connections with but is originally from Arkansas. This makes it even funnier. Recruiting is all about connections not just about the hustle. Who you got in your corner that can recruit for you.
 
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#29
#29
Pretty sure the 21 class has another kid from Arkansas who received an offer from CTV as a freshman and Arkansas offered him a week later. I have followed both teams and their recruiting since CTV left AR and it appears to me that DVHs philosophy when it comes to his in state kids is to commit them young and cut them loose if they don't pan out or fit in before they report. I have noticed several kids from AR who have committed to the Hogs early on in High School who never even make it to campus for some reason or another. I know of three for sure who signed NLI's, but were notified as late as July that they would not be used if they reported. Basically they gobble them up early just so they cant go anywhere else and then leave the kids scrambling to find somewhere else to play. Its a cutthroat business for sure but this doesnt appear to be anything like CTV's philosophy so you can see why there might be some friction between the two when it comes to recruiting.
 
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#30
#30
nashvillepanther said:
I think some of these posts didn't understand the article. CTV got pissed at DVH for recruiting a guy from Arkansas that is committed to CTV. DVH responded that the old days of baseball are gone, and commitments don't mean as much anymore. Seems like a fairly routine disagreement that was made public due to the on-field blowup.

Edit: CTV did go into Arkansas to get the commitment first. He out-hustled DVH in that regard. However, DVH wasn't upset about that. He was upset that CTV was upset that Arkansas kept recruiting him afterwards. This is pretty standard, even more so in football?!
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Did you miss the part where DVH said he (I.e, CTV) took a commitment from a kid in their state (I.e. Arkansas) before they (I.e. Arkansas) even had a chance to evaluate him? He, subliminally at best, and obviously in my opinion made a gripe about CTV’s recruiting tactics and implied that there’s an unwritten rule on who gets first dibs on in-state recruits. When DVH builds his roster on a 7-8 state territory, based off their tuition assistance program, he’s not one to gripe about coaches going into other states. Does he wait for TX, aTM, OU, UT, etc. to pass on or offer kids first before raiding those states?
 
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#31
#31
preacherman20 said:
The kid is not in Arkansas. He was playing at a JUCO in Missouri that Vitello has great connections with but is originally from Arkansas. This makes it even funnier. Recruiting is all about connections not just about the hustle. Who you got in your corner that can recruit for you.
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Yep, so even if a kid leaves Arkansas to play JUCO, TV still needs to sit around waiting for DVH's blessing to talk to him.
 
#33
#33
preacherman20 said:
The kid is not in Arkansas. He was playing at a JUCO in Missouri that Vitello has great connections with but is originally from Arkansas. This makes it even funnier. Recruiting is all about connections not just about the hustle. Who you got in your corner that can recruit for you.
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Crowder College is right under DVH’s nose just up the road from Fayetteville.
 
#34
#34
joejoe102! said:
Pretty sure the 21 class has another kid from Arkansas who received an offer from CTV as a freshman and Arkansas offered him a week later. I have followed both teams and their recruiting since CTV left AR and it appears to me that DVHs philosophy when it comes to his in state kids is to commit them young and cut them loose if they don't pan out or fit in before they report. I have noticed several kids from AR who have committed to the Hogs early on in High School who never even make it to campus for some reason or another. I know of three for sure who signed NLI's, but were notified as late as July that they would not be used if they reported. Basically they gobble them up early just so they cant go anywhere else and then leave the kids scrambling to find somewhere else to play. Its a cutthroat business for sure but this doesnt appear to be anything like CTV's philosophy so you can see why there might be some friction between the two when it comes to recruiting.
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Oh crap, I feel another Bruin rant will follow this post.
 
#35
#35
walkenvol said:
Maybe I’m missing the point, but I think his claim was that Toney V was pissed because UT had a verbal commitment from a player and Arkansas was still recruiting the player. In most of the other sports I think there’s a gentleman’s agreement amongst coaches that when a recruit makes a verbal the other programs quit recruiting him.
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It's up to the coach. My son's college baseball coach would not try to recruit a player committed to another school. He viewed it as morally wrong for a kid to verbally commit to a school and then renege on that commitment, and he would not be a part of that.
 
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#38
#38
feathersax said:
THIS times infinity!:cool::D
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arkyvol said:
Van Horn has a bigger problem than Tennessee. If he couldn't win a natty with the team he had this year, he is not likely to ever win it.
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Wait a minute. He is a legend haven't you heard? Arky and LSU better start getting a s------ load of pitching help soon. Johnson will learn the hard way that you
better have pitching depth in this league. Good luck.
 
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#40
#40
preacherman20 said:
The kid is not in Arkansas. He was playing at a JUCO in Missouri that Vitello has great connections with but is originally from Arkansas. This makes it even funnier. Recruiting is all about connections not just about the hustle. Who you got in your corner that can recruit for you.
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CTV also recruited and coached his brother Derek Chambers at Mizzou. DVH was doing a little more then recruiting the kid too. He just lost out another head to head battle with Dollander as well.
 
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#41
#41
Volsbaseballfan1 said:
CTV also recruited and coached his brother Derek Chambers at Mizzou. DVH was doing a little more then recruiting the kid too. He just lost out another head to head battle with Dollander as well.
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I wish baseball recruiting was somewhat as public as football so we can see all the head to head battles these 2 coaches will have over the next few years.
 
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#42
#42
arkyvol said:
Van Horn has a bigger problem than Tennessee. If he couldn't win a natty with the team he had this year, he is not likely to ever win it.
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I mean he's made it further before so not sure I get this logic. He really only had two pitchers to work with in Kopps who was amazing but had to do too much, and Wicklander who was very good. The pitching staff had holes all season and has a lot of room for improvement. It's actually pretty incredible that Arkansas was #1 most of the season with basically two pitchers.
 
#45
#45
AthensVol2007 said:
Did you miss the part where DVH said he (I.e, CTV) took a commitment from a kid in their state (I.e. Arkansas) before they (I.e. Arkansas) even had a chance to evaluate him? He, subliminally at best, and obviously in my opinion made a gripe about CTV’s recruiting tactics and implied that there’s an unwritten rule on who gets first dibs on in-state recruits. When DVH builds his roster on a 7-8 state territory, based off their tuition assistance program, he’s not one to gripe about coaches going into other states. Does he wait for TX, aTM, OU, UT, etc. to pass on or offer kids first before raiding those states?
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I did see it. The disagreement came down to Arkansas continuing to recruit the kid after his commitment. I was commenting on the commonality of this in today's game. SEC recruiting is cutthroat. It was a minor dustup (in my perspective) that got to the news due to it being on the field after a great series.
 
#46
#46
nashvillepanther said:
I did see it. The disagreement came down to Arkansas continuing to recruit the kid after his commitment. I was commenting on the commonality of this in today's game. SEC recruiting is cutthroat. It was a minor dustup (in my perspective) that got to the news due to it being on the field after a great series.
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Yes, the argument in May after the game was over Chambers and potentially Jackson Greer, who DVH “tampered” with as well after he decided to transfer to UT. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that DVH explicitly griped in this interview about CTV recruiting a kid from their state before he had an opportunity to. I wouldn’t even imagine that this is one of those unwritten rules. DVH has an Arkansas kid coming in from Neosho himself so that’s on him for not being on top of Chambers earlier.
 
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#47
#47
Bad look for DVH. Glad ARK doesn’t have any COVID commitments that were offered w/o seeing in person. Shows how much CTV is in his head. Is DVH following in Maineri’s footsteps??? SEC coaching trending to a young mans game.
 
#48
#48
gohogs14 said:
I mean he's made it further before so not sure I get this logic. He really only had two pitchers to work with in Kopps who was amazing but had to do too much, and Wicklander who was very good. The pitching staff had holes all season and has a lot of room for improvement. It's actually pretty incredible that Arkansas was #1 most of the season with basically two pitchers.
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I don't know what you're talking about. DVH had Noland, Lockhart, Wiggins (who got touched by Ferguson), Ramage, Vermillion, and Costieu, either of whom could start at U.T. Kopps was good, but then when he came in, there were very few times he had a mess to clean up. Those guys were good, damned good. Whatever weaknesses the hogs had (none come to mind except the unexplainable occasional hitting droughts), pitching wasn't one of them.
 
#49
#49
arkyvol said:
I don't know what you're talking about. DVH had Noland, Lockhart, Wiggins (who got touched by Ferguson), Ramage, Vermillion, and Costieu, either of whom could start at U.T. Kopps was good, but then when he came in, there were very few times he had a mess to clean up. Those guys were good, damned good. Whatever weaknesses the hogs had (none come to mind except the unexplainable occasional hitting droughts), pitching wasn't one of them.
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Noland - 6.91 ERA
Lockhart - 4.47
Wiggins - 5.09
Ramage - 6.75
Vermillion - 4.69
Costeiu- 5.10

Average ERA of 5.5. Not sure what you consider good, but for relievers none of those are particularly great stats. Most of those guys were either flat out bad or just inconsistent this year. Lockhart and Noland were decent in spots. Wiggins obviously has great potential but isn't there yet. Ramage barely got PT in midweeks. Costeiu gave up 3 home runs in a row and was one reason why we lost to NC State in the second game. Vermillion started early in the season but barely played at all late in the year.

I mean, there was a reason Kopps was forced to pitch so many innings in the first place.
 
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