DC Black Hawk vs Plane crash.

[gcbvol]

Now, having said that .... This discussion really doesn't belong in this thread. It's only here because Trump brought it up. He shouldn't have. There is no indication that a DEI initiative was in any way responsible for this tragedy.

The only reason I engaged this topic is I hate when these culture war terms are used as a boogeyman deflection. I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms and concerns over DEI, but is it too much to ask for POTUS to be an adult after a tragedy like this?

 

[85SugarVol]

The only reason I engaged this topic is I hate when these culture war terms are used as a boogeyman deflection. I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms and concerns over DEI, but is it too much to ask for POTUS to be an adult after a tragedy like this?

No, it’s not. Trump is a callous buffoon.

And this conversation does belong in the other thread.

 

[gcbvol]

Well you did say WHERE you worked

Probably fired for a “diversity“ hire. Wait, let me guess, you were “asked“ to retire

Yes, my role was transitioned to a cost-effective geography. It wasn't about diversity, but money. Which, again, is why we would never intentionally hire and invest in someone unqualified to do a job. It's wasteful and ultimately detrimental to employee morale.

Fortunately, I was able to retire at 54.

 

[gcbvol]

Well you did say WHERE you worked

Probably fired for a “diversity“ hire. Wait, let me guess, you were “asked“ to retire

Why so snotty? My intention wasn't hostility.

 

[C-south]

Yes, my role was transitioned to a cost-effective geography. It wasn't about diversity, but money. Which, again, is why we would never intentionally hire and invest in someone unqualified to do a job. It's wasteful and ultimately detrimental to employee morale.

Fortunately, I was able to retire at 54.

Having jobs/departments dedicated to dei is the definition of wasteful.

 

[85SugarVol]

A CTI program offered at some colleges, which from my understanding is multiple tests and 200 hours of “training” and if you passed you have an extremely likely chance of getting hired. During the obama admin they added 114 biographical questionnaire that if you didn’t pass you’d automatically be ineligible, some of the questions were things like if u played multiple sports in HS. There was a guy about 10 years ago that had a perfect score through the CTI program, gets to the new biographical test and fails and they said he’s ineligible. There was a big lawsuit over it.
There’s been multiple lawsuits over this change and it resulted in 2016 to congress passing a law against using it as a first line hiring tool

There was also a whole cheating scandal

The FAA's Hiring Scandal: A Quick Overview

An Air Traffic Control nightmare

www.tracingwoodgrains.com

So clarifying question here - there was an attempt in 2016 to reverse this new testing/hiring regime? Was it successful?

 

[gcbvol]

Having jobs/departments dedicated to dei is the definition of wasteful.

Not necessarily. How big do you think these departments are? We're talking maybe 5 people for a 700K global employer. And if they are contributing to recruiting top talent and employee engagement, those are benefits.

 

[Ashevolle]

Hmmm, one accident in how many days?

Blame hiring freeze.

Assuming you can read, I didn't blame the hiring freeze. I said it will exacerbate an already bad situation in the...... future.

 

[C-south]

Not necessarily. How big do you think these departments are? We're talking maybe 5 people for a 700K global employer. And if they are contributing to recruiting top talent and employee engagement, those are benefits.

That’s quite the oxymoron. Dei to recruit “top talent”.

 

[BowlBrother85]

The McKinsey research “results” that are so often cited have been attempted to be recreated multiple times - no one has been able to do it.

That's such a small part of a much greater point I was attempting to make. It really depends on the mission of the business as to whether or not diversity is necessary. For some business models, diversity can bring a much needed wide specialization of interpersonal skill sets.

You guys are discussing diversity too broadly here. I don't see how any form of customer service or sales department in a large American city can function anymore without some degree of diversity. You guys are over-simplifying the issue to an extreme. What type of business are you talking about? You should establish that first, before addressing the question of whether or not diversity would be necessary or not.

 

[85SugarVol]

Not necessarily. How big do you think these departments are? We're talking maybe 5 people for a 700K global employer. And if they are contributing to recruiting top talent and employee engagement, those are benefits.

DEI is Big Business. It’s a $40B per year industry.

 

[85SugarVol]

That's such a small part of a much greater point I was attempting to make. It really depends on the mission of the business as to whether or not diversity is necessary. For some business models, diversity can bring a much needed specialization of interpersonal skill sets.

You guys are discussing diversity too broadly here. I don't see how any form of customer service department in a large American city can function anymore without some degree of diversity. You guys are over-simplifying the issue to an extreme. What type of business are you talking about? You should establish that first, before addressing the question of whether or not diversity would be necessary or not.

That study has been the bedrock of the argument that DEI drives business results - which is what they have to tie it back to.

My problem has never been with Diversity, always with Equity.

You absolutely want Diversity of thought and experience in your Product Design groups.

 

[gcbvol]

That’s quite the oxymoron. Dei to recruit “top talent”.

To be clear, I'm talking about what Huff mentioned earlier. In campus recruiting DEI was an expectation for candidates. If your company didn't have some sort of inclusivity programs, you were behind.

 

[KB5252]

What's your take on Costco? One of the best and most valued companies in the country. Shareholders overwhelmingly voted to retain DEI and they have among the highest empliyee satisfaction scores out there

Question about the voting........ Does each individual stockholder get a ballot or something? Always wondered how that worked.

As far as the company itself it's Washington company known for being pretty liberal leaning..... It's biggest shareholders even more overwhelmingly liberal. Supporting DEI wouldn't...... Better said shouldn't surprise anyone.

I used to deal with them at my former employer. It was a little complicated working with them...... That's about all I know of them.

 

[NashVol11]

Well you did say WHERE you worked

Probably fired for a “diversity“ hire. Wait, let me guess, you were “asked“ to retire

Please don't tell me you're attacking him like this because you're that defensive about military being part of DEI at his job

 

[gcbvol]

That study has been the bedrock of the argument that DEI drives business results - which is what they have to tie it back to.

My problem has never been with Diversity, always with Equity.

You absolutely want Diversity of thought and experience in your Product Design groups.

Thanks for this clarification. Diversity is more than race and sex.

 

[BowlBrother85]

BB. You are so right. I’ve seen the light!!!

I hope you will now call Senate democrats tomorrow and ask them to confirm Kash Patel and Tulsi Gabbard. In the name of Diversity!!!

I honestly don't have a problem with either one of them.

Ironically, the only Trump nominee which deeply bothers me is RFK Jr. (a white man from an iconic Democratic Party family). He is not in the least bit qualified, and he has lied about his stance on vaccines. He couldn't answer basic questions concerning Medicare and Medicaid during his hearing.

 

[gcbvol]

Please don't tell me you're attacking him like this because you're that defensive about military being part of DEI at his job

I think it's mostly in fun, but sometimes it's hard to tell. I've dealt with so much real hate in life these message board squabbles are innocuous.

The one thing that kind of bothers me is they think I'm lying. It's been a common theme during my tenure here. And I always try to tell the truth.

 

[Smokey123]

So clarifying question here - there was an attempt in 2016 to reverse this new testing/hiring regime? Was it successful?

They took away that test in 2018. 11 AG’s argued last year that the FAA was still hiring based on diversity and not Merit, but I’m not sure what exactly sure what that was based off of

 

[VOLS INC.]

I think it's mostly in fun, but sometimes it's hard to tell. I've dealt with so much real hate in life these message board squabbles are innocuous.

The one thing that kind of bothers me is they think I'm lying. It's been a common theme during my tenure here. And I always try to tell the truth.

Fun?? This isn’t fun??? This the VNPF!!! This is as serious as serious gets!

 

[85SugarVol]

Thanks for this clarification. Diversity is more than race and sex.

100%

The faulty assumption is that Race & Sex is a proxy for “Thought”.

 

[gcbvol]

100%

The faulty assumption is that Race & Sex is a proxy for “Thought”.

Yep! If folks haven't already seen it, get prepared for 'cognitive diversity.' I have a feeling where 'DEI' has gone 'CD' will emerge.

 

[85SugarVol]

The one thing that kind of bothers me is they think I'm lying. It's been a common theme during my tenure here. And I always try to tell the truth.

It’s noticed, and appreciated by some.

 

[KB5252]

Do you really think companies are actively and intentionally hiring unqualified candidates? Now that's absurd. It's an accepted fact that happy emloyees are more engaged and more productive. A sense of belonging is part of that. Compensation is more than that. It also includes industry-wide analysis to ensure compensation is at the right levels. Of course a new manager is not going to make the same as a manager in the role for 5, 10 years, etc. but there should be established minimums that are in line with industry standard.

My former employer was terrible with this. They had new hire employees making up to 30% more than the employees training them in some departments. Some right out of college with zero experience in a highly technical field.

They brought a manager into our department as a new hire training program to get them up to a baseline knowledge of the industry and technical know how she would be responsible for judging us on and expected we would accept being lead, coached and our work judged by someone who could barely get through the new hire program without flunking out.

She was what we would call today a DEI hire. She was hired because our manager thought she knocked the interview out of the park. I lost a lot of respect for her as a manager for that one, until that point I thought her very competent and a good mentor.

 

[gcbvol]

My former employer was terrible with this. They had new hire employees making up to 30% more than the employees training them in some departments. Some right out of college with zero experience in a highly technical field.

They brought a manager into our department as a new hire training program to get them up to a baseline knowledge of the industry and technical know how she would be responsible for judging us on and expected we would accept being lead, coached and our work judged by someone who could barely get through the new hire program without flunking out.

She was what we would call today a DEI hire. She was hired because our manager thought she knocked the interview out of the park. I lost a lot of respect for her as a manager for that one, until that point I thought her very competent and a good mentor.

Maybe I just got lucky from an employment perspective.