Dear Trae...

[Spartacavolus]

Noone will answer my question about directing traffic and being vocal. It's not like its a special skill. It just takes effort.

 

[OrangeBalls]

If you want to see what happens to a team when their SG has to play PG then look no further than Pitt. Their PG, Woodall, suffered an abdominal injury and went out the game before they played UT. Of course, they beat us, but Gibbs is having to play PG. He is not a PG. Pitt has now lost 7 in a row.

Dixon moved Gibbs to SG in the Marquette game and a freshman to PG and he scored more points in that game than he did in any other since Woodall went out.

Pitt has just a little more talent than us and they are even struggling because they are playing players out of position.

 

[Hayezb]

If you want to see what happens to a team when their SG has to play PG then look no further than Pitt. Their PG, Woodall, suffered an abdominal injury and went out the game before they played UT. Of course, they beat us, but Gibbs is having to play PG. He is not a PG. Pitt has now lost 7 in a row.

Dixon moved Gibbs to SG in the Marquette game and a freshman to PG and he scored more points in that game than he did in any other since Woodall went out.

Pitt has just a little more talent than us and they are even struggling because they are playing players out of position.

It's refreshing to see people with common sense around here.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You're not getting it. He tried. He can't physically make someone come to UT. A backup plan would have likely been someone of Washpun's level, which would have just been another player to complain about and another reason to blame the old coach. I admit, PG recruiting was Pearl's achilles heel. He never physically brought in a true PG. Not just this year, but every year he was there. The one true PG he had committed, bailed on him when tOSU came calling.

i understand he obviously cant make anybody come to UT, he brought in guys all the other years he was here. other posters on this board feel that goins, and maze would both be an upgrade over golden at the PG position. those guys were not pearl's first choice i can guarantee that, they were second choice guys becuase his number one guys turned him down. i dont remember pearl ever bringing in a pg that was as much of a project as wes though, i will say that. what my oringinal post was was that pearl did not have a pg coming in, so golden is what we were left with at PG whether it was pearl here or ccm. therefore, we have nobody to blame for not having any other pg on the roster beside pearl. as i said many on here wish we had atleast a goins or a maze to play at pg but we dont even have a serviceable back up. thats all i was saying he left us with nothing at that position.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

if you want to see what happens to a team when their sg has to play pg then look no further than pitt. Their pg, woodall, suffered an abdominal injury and went out the game before they played ut. Of course, they beat us, but gibbs is having to play pg. He is not a pg. Pitt has now lost 7 in a row.

Dixon moved gibbs to sg in the marquette game and a freshman to pg and he scored more points in that game than he did in any other since woodall went out.

Pitt has just a little more talent than us and they are even struggling because they are playing players out of position.

+1,000,000

 

[cncchris33]

i understand he obviously cant make anybody come to UT, he brought in guys all the other years he was here. other posters on this board feel that goins, and maze would both be an upgrade over golden at the PG position. those guys were not pearl's first choice i can guarantee that, they were second choice guys becuase his number one guys turned him down. i dont remember pearl ever bringing in a pg that was as much of a project as wes though, i will say that. what my oringinal post was was that pearl did not have a pg coming in, so golden is what we were left with at PG whether it was pearl here or ccm. therefore, we have nobody to blame for not having any other pg on the roster beside pearl. as i said many on here wish we had atleast a goins or a maze to play at pg but we dont even have a serviceable back up. thats all i was saying he left us with nothing at that position.

Maze and Goins would be upgrades simply because they were proven PG's. That is stating the obvious.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Maze and Goins would be upgrades simply because they were proven PG's. That is stating the obvious.

proven in what ways? goins at ball state and maze at a kansas juco? neither one really proved themselves their first time through D1. this is my point though pearl didnt even have guys like these on the roster in case golden didnt work out, that is troublesome. thats all i am saying is that whether pearl or ccm is here golden is our pg because pearl apparently felt golden was going to be the guy as well.

 

[cncchris33]

proven in what ways? goins at ball state and maze at a kansas juco? neither one really proved themselves their first time through D1. this is my point though pearl didnt even have guys like these on the roster in case golden didnt work out, that is troublesome. thats all i am saying is that whether pearl or ccm is here golden is our pg because pearl apparently felt golden was going to be the guy as well.

Golden was recruited as the fall-back to Craft and Selby after they bolted. The former staff got in on him after he decommitted from OSU due to his relationship with Jordan McRae. So, he was the backup option. They then attempted to bring in Chris Jones the following year to compete with him at PG in hopes that Jones would win the job and Golden could slide to SG. Before the former staff was relieved, Jones was on schedule to make it into school. They were fired in April. Jones fails to make it into school in August. Where were they supposed to find another backup option in the meantime?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Golden was recruited as the fall-back to Craft and Selby after they bolted. The former staff got in on him after he decommitted from OSU due to his relationship with Jordan McRae. So, he was the backup option. They then attempted to bring in Chris Jones the following year to compete with him at PG in hopes that Jones would win the job and Golden could slide to SG. Before the former staff was relieved, Jones was on schedule to make it into school. They were fired in April. Jones fails to make it into school in August. Where were they supposed to find another backup option in the meantime?

About 90% of this board knew there was a strong possibility jones was not going to make it into school. I have a hard time believing that pearl and his staff didn't have the slightest idea.

 

[cncchris33]

About 90% of this board knew there was a strong possibility jones was not going to make it into school. I have a hard time believing that pearl and his staff didn't have the slightest idea.

About 90% of this board doesn't know their head from a hole in the ground, let alone the inner-workings of the staff's recruiting efforts.

Like I said before, the former staff was fired before they had a chance to replace him, if as you imply (but are not certain of), there was cause for concern in March-April. Furthermore, who is to say that they weren't working on a secondary option? For all we know, they were in contact with every available option possible, but after they were fired, any potential options would have certainly looked elsewhere.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

About 90% of this board doesn't know their head from a hole in the ground, let alone the inner-workings of the staff's recruiting efforts.

Like I said before, the former staff was fired before they had a chance to replace him, if as you imply (but are not certain of), there was cause for concern in March-April. Furthermore, who is to say that they weren't working on a secondary option? For all we know, they were in contact with every available option possible, but after they were fired, any potential options would have certainly looked elsewhere.

Well his coaches had come out and said he had things to work on there were red flags everywhere stating there was a good chance he wouldn't get in school it wasn't a surprise. As you said they could have been trying to bring someone in we will never know though. This is something that you state but are clearly not certain of as well. The point is as was brought up in another thread, when bobby maze is your best pg you've had in the last 8 years that says something about the players being brought in by the staff.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I was with you all the way till the end there. Pearl recruited Aaron Craft, Josh Selby, and Chris Jones. It's not his fault that two decommitted and one didn't get into school. He attempted to address the situation. Leave Pearl out of threads. Love him or hate him, his inclusion in peoples' posts don't strengthen the argument. They just make you look bitter.

Utter silliness.

 

[cncchris33]

Well his coaches had come out and said he had things to work on there were red flags everywhere stating there was a good chance he wouldn't get in school it wasn't a surprise. As you said they could have been trying to bring someone in we will never know though. This is something that you state but are clearly not certain of as well. The point is as was brought up in another thread, when bobby maze is your best pg you've had in the last 8 years that says something about the players being brought in by the staff.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was certain of anything. I went out of my way to make a point that no one is certain of what went on behind the scenes. My exact words were, "for all we know", they could have been trying to formulate a backup plan.

Again, Golden was the backup plan. They attempted to back him up with Jones. He didn't qualify. It happens. Maze is the best we've had since Watson.

You seem hell-bent on pushing this issue that the former staff is solely responsible for that (which they are by default), and that they somehow made a pedestrian, half-@ss attempt to remedy the situation. I'm not arguing, nor have I argued their level of responsibility, but that seems to be the centerpiece of your argument.

We seem to be pushing two different issues, so I don't get your angle outside of arguing for argument's sake. Suffice to say, we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[cncchris33]

Utter silliness.

Please expound. Your traditional smartass, cryptic, two-word responses are void of any substance.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Please expound. Your traditional smartass, cryptic, two-word responses are void of any substance.

Which is vastly superior to the lunacy in the post to which I responded.

 

[cncchris33]

Which is vastly superior to the lunacy in the post to which I responded.

Another zinger. Keep em coming. I have three year olds at home that produce more compelling, thought out responses when asking for milk.

I love the blanket, "that's stupid" comments, with no substance or thought-provoking rebuttal.

You have won the coveted ignore award shared by several other past winners who attempted to bully their way around this forum. Congrats.

 

[BigPapaVol]

That hurts. When you're finished whining, read your retarded post and think through it. It's dumb as hell, and you you tacked on Ramar, it's even worse. Acting like the clown didn't know what he was recruiting makes him look dumb.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was certain of anything. I went out of my way to make a point that no one is certain of what went on behind the scenes. My exact words were, "for all we know", they could have been trying to formulate a backup plan.

Again, Golden was the backup plan. They attempted to back him up with Jones. He didn't qualify. It happens. Maze is the best we've had since Watson.

You seem hell-bent on pushing this issue that the former staff is solely responsible for that (which they are by default), and that they somehow made a pedestrian, half-@ss attempt to remedy the situation. I'm not arguing, nor have I argued their level of responsibility, but that seems to be the centerpiece of your argument.

We seem to be pushing two different issues, so I don't get your angle outside of arguing for argument's sake. Suffice to say, we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

All my point was was simply pearl has not recruited good true PG to Tennessee, whether he can't evaluate them or takes risks on guys he shouldn't, fact is he didn't bring in one good true pg while here. So what I was saying is simply with ccm is with pearl we are most likely stuck with golden at PG this year. Maybe pearl brings in a maze/goins personally i don't see that a a huge upgrade. All my point was was simply we can thank pearl for no having a PG that was all, you then proceeded to blow up. You say it's not like pearl tried to sabotage the program, well thank you captain obvious maybe he was trying to bring us down with him. You keep referring to its not like he neglected it he had 3 PG's commited, that means jack if they never step on campus. In Selbys case many questioned his attitude it clearly was a problem and he obviously wouldn't be here anyways. Jones clearly wouldn't be here so that 2 of 3 that wouldn't be here. That leaves you craft, this kid is snart he wasn't receiving major attention so he commited to te best bball school at that point, Tennessee. As soon as OSU came calling he was gone. So it's not as if pearl had them ere and they suffered injuries or something, pearl never brought them in. So back to the original point pearl NEVER brought in a good PG in his time here.

 

[cncchris33]

All my point was was simply pearl has not recruited good true PG to Tennessee, whether he can't evaluate them or takes risks on guys he shouldn't, fact is he didn't bring in one good true pg while here. So what I was saying is simply with ccm is with pearl we are most likely stuck with golden at PG this year. Maybe pearl brings in a maze/goins personally i don't see that a a huge upgrade. All my point was was simply we can thank pearl for no having a PG that was all, you then proceeded to blow up. You say it's not like pearl tried to sabotage the program, well thank you captain obvious maybe he was trying to bring us down with him. You keep referring to its not like he neglected it he had 3 PG's commited, that means jack if they never step on campus. In Selbys case many questioned his attitude it clearly was a problem and he obviously wouldn't be here anyways. Jones clearly wouldn't be here so that 2 of 3 that wouldn't be here. That leaves you craft, this kid is snart he wasn't receiving major attention so he commited to te best bball school at that point, Tennessee. As soon as OSU came calling he was gone. So it's not as if pearl had them ere and they suffered injuries or something, pearl never brought them in. So back to the original point pearl NEVER brought in a good PG in his time here.

Oh my goodness. Where to start with this.

A. "All my point was was simply pearl has not recruited good true PG to Tennessee"

"So back to the original point pearl NEVER brought in a good PG in his time here."

Your opening and closing statements in the above post contradict each other. My first post on page 1 in this thread was in response to the original poster, who claimed the former staff didn't recruit a PG. That statement is flat wrong. They recruited plenty of them and had commitments from four (including Daniel West). Saying the former staff didn't "recruit" a PG is simply incorrect, because they did. They did, however, fail to successfully bring a PG into the program. There is a very distinct difference (one that seems to have been lost on you) and that difference is, has been, and will be the crux of my point.

B. "You say it's not like pearl tried to sabotage the program, well thank you captain obvious maybe he was trying to bring us down with him."

Again, contradictory. You assure me that Pearl wouldn't attempt to sabotage the program, even labeling me as "Captain Obvious" for trying to debunk the notion, and then turn right around and subtly insinuate that he was perhaps, trying to "take us down with him". I hope you don't really believe this.

When they would have been recruiting these players, the former staff was under the impression that their jobs were safe per the assurances of Mike Hamilton. Why then, would they potentially sabotage their recruiting efforts and the future success of their team, operating within the understanding that they were not going to be fired?

Lastly, between this conversation and the epic novel penned between yourself and MemphisCanes earlier this week, it is becoming crystal clear that you simply like to argue for the sake of argument. All you have done in this thread, like the one with him, is repeatedly beat me over the head with your "point" ad nauseum, forsaking any discernable difference in the points either of us are trying to make. You are just looking for an argument. You did it with him and you are attempting to do it with me. You have repeatedly put words in my mouth, whether intentional or not, and made assumption after assumption based on your perceived belief of what you "think" my opinion is on the issue. Much like the conversation with MemphisCanes, you are arguing a different point than I am, and it seems you just can't see the forest for the trees.

Suffice to say, the entire basis can be summed up like this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but reviewing this thread, this is what I have gathered...

-Your point is that the former staff failed to bring in a PG (which I have never argued against, and in fact, have agreed with).

-My point is, they tried to bring in a PG and failed for any number or reasons, and that to say they failed to "recruit a PG is wrong.

They recruited plenty, and landed none.

 

[calban]

If anything, be asking why CCM is finding a way to reduce the turnovers.

With Martin mentioning turnovers as a main concern, I'm quite sure they're working on improvement in practice.
It did take this team 14 games to start taking defense seriously so they may be slow learners.
Hopefully they learn faster on ball handling.

 

[cncchris33]

With Martin mentioning turnovers as a main concern, I'm quite sure they're working on improvement in practice.
It did take this team 14 games to start taking defense seriously so they may be slow learners.
Hopefully they learn faster on ball handling.

I agree. In fairness to them, these players were brought in to run a completely different system, style, etc. Maybe it just takes a good amount of time to fight the learning curve. They have definitely turned around the team defense.

 

[MannyD]

Just because he is the only option, doesn't mean his game can't be critiqued. I'm pulling for him, but he's played ball a long time and had it in his hands through HS, aau and now in college.

Trae, go to Steve Nash's ballhandling camp this year, and get vocal with your team. Point, yell, direct traffic, get guys in the right spots, clear out, get Stokes on the block, get in your teammates faces, call a TO if you don't like the look, etc, etc. Regardless of playing out of position or whatever, he is the pg, and many of the above things I listed are simple to fix and just take awareness and effort.

Smart man. I agree. Hopefully he and Tobias can get together this summer, and Tobias can introduce him to some of his NBA buddies. A little mentoring from pros could go a long way. If Trae has aspirations of playing professionally, I'm sure he realizes it'll have to be as a PG. Money is a great motivator for improvement.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Oh my goodness. Where to start with this.

A. "All my point was was simply pearl has not recruited good true PG to Tennessee"

"So back to the original point pearl NEVER brought in a good PG in his time here."

Your opening and closing statements in the above post contradict each other. My first post on page 1 in this thread was in response to the original poster, who claimed the former staff didn't recruit a PG. That statement is flat wrong. They recruited plenty of them and had commitments from four (including Daniel West). Saying the former staff didn't "recruit" a PG is simply incorrect, because they did. They did, however, fail to successfully bring a PG into the program. There is a very distinct difference (one that seems to have been lost on you) and that difference is, has been, and will be the crux of my point.

B. "You say it's not like pearl tried to sabotage the program, well thank you captain obvious maybe he was trying to bring us down with him."

Again, contradictory. You assure me that Pearl wouldn't attempt to sabotage the program, even labeling me as "Captain Obvious" for trying to debunk the notion, and then turn right around and subtly insinuate that he was perhaps, trying to "take us down with him". I hope you don't really believe this.

When they would have been recruiting these players, the former staff was under the impression that their jobs were safe per the assurances of Mike Hamilton. Why then, would they potentially sabotage their recruiting efforts and the future success of their team, operating within the understanding that they were not going to be fired?

Lastly, between this conversation and the epic novel penned between yourself and MemphisCanes earlier this week, it is becoming crystal clear that you simply like to argue for the sake of argument. All you have done in this thread, like the one with him, is repeatedly beat me over the head with your "point" ad nauseum, forsaking any discernable difference in the points either of us are trying to make. You are just looking for an argument. You did it with him and you are attempting to do it with me. You have repeatedly put words in my mouth, whether intentional or not, and made assumption after assumption based on your perceived belief of what you "think" my opinion is on the issue. Much like the conversation with MemphisCanes, you are arguing a different point than I am, and it seems you just can't see the forest for the trees.

Suffice to say, the entire basis can be summed up like this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but reviewing this thread, this is what I have gathered...

-Your point is that the former staff failed to bring in a PG (which I have never argued against, and in fact, have agreed with).

-My point is, they tried to bring in a PG and failed for any number or reasons, and that to say they failed to "recruit a PG is wrong.

They recruited plenty, and landed none.

I apologize you are correct on the terminology. I dont really give credit for players not brought in though, an just recruited. Are we going to give credit to CCM for recruiting nick king, and about the other 5 top 50 kids out of Memphis tht he is recruiting? Or how about the nunber 1 player in the country out of chicago area that he is recruiting? To me you really shouldn't receive much praise for recruiting a player unless they actually suite up for you. I see part of recruiting as making sure they can get in school a and also b that they honor their commitment through. I guess we just have different view on the recruiting process, that's fair enough not everyone has to agree.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I agree. In fairness to them, these players were brought in to run a completely different system, style, etc. Maybe it just takes a good amount of time to fight the learning curve. They have definitely turned around the team defense.

Great point and I think it goes largely forgotten by people on here. These guys weren't recruited to a system that played defense and that I just flat out honesty.

 

[cncchris33]

I apologize you are correct on the terminology. I dont really give credit for players not brought in though, an just recruited. Are we going to give credit to CCM for recruiting nick king, and about the other 5 top 50 kids out of Memphis tht he is recruiting? Or how about the nunber 1 player in the country out of chicago area that he is recruiting? To me you really shouldn't receive much praise for recruiting a player unless they actually suite up for you. I see part of recruiting as making sure they can get in school a and also b that they honor their commitment through. I guess we just have different view on the recruiting process, that's fair enough not everyone has to agree.

It's not so much about heaping praise on the former staff for having their name mentioned with elite players. I am just trying to debunk the theory that they grossly mishandled and blatantly ignored recruiting the PG position, because it's not true. They didn't land anyone, but it wasn't for lack of trying. They recruited plenty, and thought they had several. Bad luck for them and now a bad problem for Martin.