"Death to the BCS" book

#51
#51
The big problem, milo, is that you'd rather blindly follow the rants of someone who's intention is to sell books instead of looking at the entire picture. For example, FCS (Div 1aa) had the magical playoff that want so bad but if you take a look at the FCS post season handbook you can see that the money still flows out.

Site Determination. With regard to first-round, second-round, quarterfinal and semifinal sites, in addition to the criteria listed in Bylaw 31.1.3.2.1, the NCAA Division I Football Committee shall consider the following additional criteria when selecting playoff sites:
a. Prospective host institutions must submit the following minimum financial guarantees, which shall be 75 percent of the estimated net receipts as submitted on the proposed
budget:
First round—$30,000
Second round—$30,000
Quarterfinal—$40,000
Semifinal—$50,000
b. If the minimum financial guarantees are met, the committee will award the playoff sites to the top five seeded teams

So either way tax dollars are being spent, if a school funds their athletic department that way. Either the NCAA gets the money or the private sector gets the money.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/football/2010/10_1_football.pdf
 
#52
#52
Okay? Forget the fact that ticket sales, even the paltry amount that are earned by an FCS playoff game are still many many times more than the amounts listed there, so they're fine. FCS and all lower divisions of college football operate to play the sport, not to make vultures money like the FBS.

Then consider that even the most modest of earnings projections for nearly any proposed playoff system are hundreds of millions of dollars more than what the BCS generates right now.

Again, the reason the BCS and bowl system are in place is to make a handful of schmucks millions upon millions of dollars for running a few bowl games a few weeks out of the year. As if merely taking money from universities wasn't enough, I figure seeing anyone's tax dollars end up, one way or the other, in the pockets of those schmucks ought to be enough to rally the red-blooded folks of this board, but if you really don't care about anyone who's not a UTK alum living in the state of Tennessee (UTK alums living elsewhere across the nation can suck it as well, right?) then there's not a lot anyone can do about that.

FTR, MTSU is playing Miami OH in a week in Mobile. If, like many universities, their athletics department can't cover the costs of running the football program, they're losing money on this bowl trip, and they receive even a dime of state funding, then your money is ending up in the pockets of whoever is putting on that bowl. That's next Thursday at 6pm on ESPN, just letting you know so you can see YOUR tax dollars at work.
 
#53
#53
the key word to your entire phrase

projections

because the book as well as all the others assume a few things

(a) the bowls will want to participate (none have said they want to)

(b) the bowls will pay out the same amount as they pay now

(c) the number of fans attending playoff games will be the same or more

The fact is that we (that being you, I, Dan W, any of us) dont know if any even 1 of those is true. That's a big jump for projections. Problem is money has to come from somewhere just to cover the basic expenses of the teams and most people, Dan W included, never address the other side of the story - what if it doesnt work. What if the bowls say no? What if a bowl doesnt have money to pay? What if fans dont go? That's the real problem
 
#54
#54
Why do you doubt that fans would show up to a D-IA playoff game?

Of course the bowls don't want to participate, they are the problem to begin with. Any playoff solution other than a plus one would get rid of them.

And the problem with the bowls is that they are not paying out. As has been said, only 14 of the 70 teams participating in bowl games this year will see even a dime in the black out of their trips.

The bowl system is college's version of pork barrel at its most extreme, and this is a registered Democrat telling you this. The whole thing needs to be scrapped, so a playoff can be instituted and all the D-IA programs can move that much closer to operating free of public money. But it's the money-grubbing a-holes that run the bowl games who run the show right now.
 
#56
#56
droski said:
oregon bowl tickets going as low as $20. stanford fans travel very poorly as well. they've only sold half of their allotment. pretty sad
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droski said:
stanford is a paricurally bad case. they can't even draw 20K a game at home. Washington and Cal fans travel pretty much regardless. UCLA, UA, ASU, and USC fans travel very well when good. Oregon is somewhere in teh middle.
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How many fans are going to make it out to Cal's bowl game this year?

milohimself said:
There are a lot of them right now... 90% are bandwagoners. Ducks go .500 next season and Autzen won't be selling out, and I see a bazillion percent less Duck paraphernalia around town.

To be fair, though, I wouldn't drive two+ hours for a season tickets worth of games every year to see a bad to mediocre product, either.
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Would this be like the year after 2004 when Autzen sold out every game?
 
#59
#59
milohimself said:
Again, the reason the BCS and bowl system are in place is to make a handful of schmucks millions upon millions of dollars for running a few bowl games a few weeks out of the year. As if merely taking money from universities wasn't enough, I figure seeing anyone's tax dollars end up, one way or the other, in the pockets of those schmucks ought to be enough to rally the red-blooded folks of this board, but if you really don't care about anyone who's not a UTK alum living in the state of Tennessee (UTK alums living elsewhere across the nation can suck it as well, right?) then there's not a lot anyone can do about that.

.
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If the BCS is stealing money from the universities, then why do university presidents support it over a playoff? And why is it that you are simply regurgitating Wetzels' arguments. Do you hve any thoughts of your own on this matter?

The BCS exists for one reason and one reason only: to financially circumvent the NCAA. The bolded portion above is thus incorrect. Perhaps the guy that wrote it should steal some ideas from a different chapter in the book.
 
#60
#60
milohimself said:
Back to the book, what's wrong with the bias it has? Yes, they set out to identify all the problems with the BCS, but all it does is lay out facts and the ONLY reasonable conclusion that anybody can come to when viewing all of them is that the bowl system is a gravy train overloaded with shmucks literally taking money by the truckload away from universities (and, in turn, YOUR tax dollars). It's exactly why we have 35 bowl games this year and nearly had to put a 5-7 team in a bowl game, so a few more a-holes can make $80k for organizing ONE football game.
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Universities can decline the invitations to go to bowl games. They are not under duress.

Who would willingly sign up for the opportunity to get truckloads of money stolen from them? Nobody.

So why aren't universities simply declining to go to these bowl games?
 
#61
#61
milohimself said:
Okay? Forget the fact that ticket sales, even the paltry amount that are earned by an FCS playoff game are still many many times more than the amounts listed there, so they're fine. FCS and all lower divisions of college football operate to play the sport, not to make vultures money like the FBS.

Then consider that even the most modest of earnings projections for nearly any proposed playoff system are hundreds of millions of dollars more than what the BCS generates right now.

Again, the reason the BCS and bowl system are in place is to make a handful of schmucks millions upon millions of dollars for running a few bowl games a few weeks out of the year. As if merely taking money from universities wasn't enough, I figure seeing anyone's tax dollars end up, one way or the other, in the pockets of those schmucks ought to be enough to rally the red-blooded folks of this board, but if you really don't care about anyone who's not a UTK alum living in the state of Tennessee (UTK alums living elsewhere across the nation can suck it as well, right?) then there's not a lot anyone can do about that.

FTR, MTSU is playing Miami OH in a week in Mobile. If, like many universities, their athletics department can't cover the costs of running the football program, they're losing money on this bowl trip, and they receive even a dime of state funding, then your money is ending up in the pockets of whoever is putting on that bowl. That's next Thursday at 6pm on ESPN, just letting you know so you can see YOUR tax dollars at work.
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Then MTSU should decline the bowl invitation. And if they accept it and then lose money and then rely on taxpayer money to make up for what they lost, then who should the taxpayer be mad at? Which party acted in a fiscally irresponsible manner?

I'm not saying that everything in Wetzel's book is false. But the guy clearly has an agenda. So when you read the book, accepting all the arguments as gospel is probably an imprudent approach. Take a stab at formulating some thoughts on your own. That is, if your skillset allows for it.
 
#62
#62
kidbourbon said:
If the BCS is stealing money from the universities, then why do university presidents support it over a playoff? And why is it that you are simply regurgitating Wetzels' arguments. Do you hve any thoughts of your own on this matter?

The BCS exists for one reason and one reason only: to financially circumvent the NCAA.
Click to expand...

I thought it existed to pit the two best teams in order to name a champion, a BCS champion in D1 football.

If the bowl system is so great, why does no other sport on the planet have such a system?

It seems more like a beauty pageant to me.

One could read the first chapter of the book, which is their proposal, I guess...and form the conclusion that, at the very least, it would be decided on the field.
 
#63
#63
vol66 said:
I thought it existed to pit the two best teams in order to name a champion, a BCS champion in D1 football.

If the bowl system is so great, why does no other sport on the planet have such a system?

It seems more like a beauty pageant to me.

One could read the first chapter of the book, which is their proposal, I guess...and form the conclusion that, at the very least, it would be decided on the field.
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close but no cigar.

Is McDonald's purpose to make the best hamburger? Is Coke's purpose to make the best soft drink?

No. Their purpose is to make money. How they do it is the product. The same as the BCSNCG
 
#64
#64
GreveHaller said:
close but no cigar.

Is McDonald's purpose to make the best hamburger? Is Coke's purpose to make the best soft drink?

No. Their purpose is to make money. How they do it is the product. The same as the BCSNCG
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So, from what I can gather, you admit that the BCS is not the best system, but we should keep it anyways because it makes money?
 
#66
#66
GreveHaller said:
close but no cigar.

Is McDonald's purpose to make the best hamburger? Is Coke's purpose to make the best soft drink?

No. Their purpose is to make money. How they do it is the product. The same as the BCSNCG
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Dang, you got me!, Why didn't I think of that, you know...McDonalds a non-profit and all.
 
#67
#67
vol66 said:
Dang, you got me!, Why didn't I think of that, you know...McDonalds a non-profit and all.
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then you're beginning to see the light. Money controls EVERYTHING. Captialism or socialism, money controls all.

why did bb increase from 16 to 32 to 64 and now proposed to 96? not because they wanted the best to be crowned a champion - because it makes more money
 
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#69
#69
KingNick865 said:
I don't know how anyone could possibly think that.
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that's not at issue. The question was "Originally Posted by KingNick865 So, from what I can gather, you admit that the BCS is not the best system, but we should keep it anyways because it makes ". Whether its the right or wrong system isnt as question. KingNick is trying to interject a fact that hasnt been proven
 
#70
#70
GreveHaller said:
then you're beginning to see the light. Money controls EVERYTHING. Captialism or socialism, money controls all.
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"beginning to see the light" thanks, appreciate that. The people who HAVE the money and are afraid of LOSING it think you're absolutely correct.
 
#71
#71
KingNick865 said:
I don't know how anyone could possibly think that.
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vol66 said:
"beginning to see the light" thanks, appreciate that. The people who HAVE the money and are afraid of LOSING it think you're absolutely correct.
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conversley, those that have the money see the potential loss to everyone, not just the BCS members.

So you decide: is it about "control" or about maximizing profits?
 
#72
#72
GreveHaller said:
conversley, those that have the money see the potential loss to everyone, not just the BCS members.

So you decide: is it about "control" or about maximizing profits?
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All the OP asked was whether it was a good book or not. It's not Mark Twain, but when your football team is 6-7 and your basketball team self destructs yeah, this book is a decent use of time.

As for your question, your beef seems right in line with the book, money and the control of it, seems to be the focal point...I don't care about the money, I care about the teams deciding the NC on the field, not in a meaninglesss poll or a bowl game.
 
#73
#73
So, I'm just going to pop in here and make one quick statement: the BCS sucks and should die a quick death.

I'll re-read the book this week and post more thoughts, I guess.
 
#74
#74
kidbourbon said:
I'm not saying that everything in Wetzel's book is false. But the guy clearly has an agenda. So when you read the book, accepting all the arguments as gospel is probably an imprudent approach. Take a stab at formulating some thoughts on your own. That is, if your skillset allows for it.
Click to expand...

What is your point about Wetzel having an agenda? Darwin had an agenda. Jesus had an agenda. Most books of use have been written with agendas in mind.

A lot of people have formulated their own thoughts about the BCS and have concluded that it is a horribly flawed system. In fact, a hell of a lot more people have reached that conclusion than any other.

Wetzel simply provides a detailed look at the most popular position on the BCS with a lot of substantiation to back it up. It shouldn't be surprising that many people agree with and refer to his points.

GreveHaller said:
that's not at issue. The question was "Originally Posted by KingNick865 So, from what I can gather, you admit that the BCS is not the best system, but we should keep it anyways because it makes ". Whether its the right or wrong system isnt as question. KingNick is trying to interject a fact that hasnt been proven
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Whether the system is right or wrong is absolutely at question. The vast majority of college football fans think that it's the wrong system and want to see it changed.

Do you need proof of this fact?

GreveHaller said:
conversley, those that have the money see the potential loss to everyone, not just the BCS members.

So you decide: is it about "control" or about maximizing profits?
Click to expand...

Are you trying to interject a "fact" that hasn't been proven?
 
#75
#75
your response, duck, is typical of those that do no understand the complete post season college football. Make no mistake of it, there is ONE thing that is the agenda for bowls:

to make money

The schools make money, the conferences make money, the cities make money, the hotels and restaurants make money, the governments collect taxes and make money. This is a multi billion dollar industry for all of them. You do not change your successful business plan unless you are losing money. To make a change, you must KNOW that the change will make more. So far not a single plan has been presented where the system is changed and there is more money. Oh, everyone can tell you have the tournement is set up but no one can show where the money will be the same. . In the end, one of the enties will be screwed. You wanting a tournament does not put one dollar into the coffers of the schools, conferences, hotels, restaurants, bars, and even tax buckets. Once the actual benefits exceed the cost, there will be a change. Until then enjoy seeing #1 vs #2.

Those are the facts.
 
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